All Electric

[Dalslandia]

If going 40 km at 4 km/h it is 10 h,

10 h of travel that is, 2-4 days, if the canal have locks and in no hurry.

say 2,4 kW in 10 h, = 24 kW/h

wasn't the solar panels 1,7 kW/h ? say 50% charge during the day in and out of locks.20 h/2=10h

17kW/h from the solar panels during cruising, they will still charge even if using the motor,

it will just not replace the charge 100% so 24-17= 7 kW/h left to charge at 1,7 kW= 4 hours

it means it is possible, on a perfect day

5 hours travel a day=10 hours cruising, or half of it if in no hurry.

How many sun hours a day? from 9am to 6pm ? in mid summer, 9h a day for 4 days =36 h or 18 in 2 days

I will say it is possible, if god will and the sun is in good mode.

The interial looks like it is bought at Bauhouse though.

[Laurie St Lyon]

 

"Nothing wrong with covering Wales in solar panels."

 

Except Wales is always wet & Cloudy! Besides, they would probably be broken by all the sheep!

I have been back and read the technical page again, there is a lot of bullshit in there,

 

"This battery bank will enable you to cruise between 5 to 10 hours at 4-5km/h giving you a cruising range of up to 40km. The 50% discharged batteries, can be fully charged within 4 hours."

 

There is no obvious mention of the actual battery capacity but in order to get that range it must be absolutely enormous! and still rechargeable from 50% in four hours....I don't think so.

 

He also claims that the solar panels are charging the battery whilst cruising, this is impossible unless the panels are producing more current than the motor requires, this would make the range infinite.

 

The idea of putting the solar panels on the cabin side to take advantage of light reflected from the water seems very clever, but can it really have been thought up by the same man who says "Equally a removable reflective solar sail made of aluminium chequered plate, or sections of acrylic mirror can be mounted on the roof increasing the efficiency of you roof panels tremendously." does the guy actually have any idea what a solar sail is?

Granted their are things that raise eyebrows. I assumed he meant some sort of reflective cloth. Though I could not work out how in the blazes you would fix one on a canalboat. Mind you if I could sail across the Solar system...!

[Laurie St Lyon]

Thank you everyone for pitching into this. It seems to me that you can meet your "household" needs with solar or your propulsive needs but probably not both.

 

Seems clear that the idea of an electric shower is out. The idea of cooking also not neccesarily to be advised,

 

Need to get my head further round the math. I have a big button calculator on my desk for a reason! But then, as I always maintain, !If I could add up properly I would be an accountant and rule the world, instead of a lawyer who tells then how it should be run!"

 

As Julynian says A large number of patents have been bought to keep oil co's in profit. However,I doubt it is part of a worldwide conspiracy. Merely the effect of collective selfish greed. I find that there is more "cock up" than conspiracy.

If going 40 km at 4 km/h it is 10 h,

10 h of travel that is, 2-4 days, if the canal have locks and in no hurry.

say 2,4 kW in 10 h, = 24 kW/h

wasn't the solar panels 1,7 kW/h ? say 50% charge during the day in and out of locks.20 h/2=10h

17kW/h from the solar panels during cruising, they will still charge even if using the motor,

it will just not replace the charge 100% so 24-17= 7 kW/h left to charge at 1,7 kW= 4 hours

it means it is possible, on a perfect day

5 hours travel a day=10 hours cruising, or half of it if in no hurry.

How many sun hours a day? from 9am to 6pm ? in mid summer, 9h a day for 4 days =36 h or 18 in 2 days

I will say it is possible, if god will and the sun is in good mode.

The interial looks like it is bought at Bauhouse though.

So the figures appear to be more theoretical than actual? Pity. I agree the outside ID ugly. Real Bauhause might have been modular but it has more style and panache.

[George94]

 

It's because of oil companies it hasn't been done, the profits from oil will always far outweigh profits from Solar energy which long term are a fraction of the costs of fossil fuels. Large oil companies have bought up and now own many technologies that would save energy worldwide. They'll only use this technology when it's profitable enough for them.

 

Oil companies and the like rule the world, NOT politicians.

 

Ah, another conspiracy theorist.

[Laurie St Lyon]

 

Ah, another conspiracy theorist.

Just because you are paranoid DOES NOT mean they are not out to get you!

 

Given the influence that money and position give big corporations It is probably more accurate to say they DO run things. But what people consider a conspiracy is merely the effects of corporate greed upon the rest of us.

Perhaps if there was a little more emphasis on ethics and less on bonus provisions we would all be better off.

 

However, this is firmly

Edited August 9, 2013 by Laurie St Lyon

[Dalslandia]

A shore line will help or save the day when nesseserely, I think it is very plauseble with full electric for long periods.

 

The big saver is speed, if in the case of the bauhouse, reduced speed from 5 to 4 as everage speed, it reduce needed power with 49%

It does say it (don't look like it is a she) have better under water hull shape then most wide beam.?

 

Going at 4 instead of 5, km or miles or knots, a reduction to 80% of the speed save almost 50% power.

 

For a specific boat it make a difference if you go 4 km/h or 4 Knots though :-)

Going from 4 km/h to 4 mph = 6,4 km/h and it needs 4 times more power.

 

Dont have to cruise from early morning to sunset every day, 8 days a week either, so it is possible, but it depends.

 

Maybe it is just impossible, so we better not think about it.

Edited August 9, 2013 by Dalslandia

[RLWP]

Maybe it is just impossible, so we better not think about it.

 

Maybe thinking about it the other way around might help. The usual approach is 'I need, this, and this, and this, and this - so I'm going to make it work. How many panels will I need'

 

How about starting from 'a boat this size can carry this many panels. Using this empirical data I can generate this much power from them. What can I do with that?'

 

Richard

[Dalslandia]

Maybe thinking about it the other way around might help. The usual approach is 'I need, this, and this, and this, and this - so I'm going to make it work. How many panels will I need'

 

How about starting from 'a boat this size can carry this many panels. Using this empirical data I can generate this much power from them. What can I do with that?'

 

Richard

good thinking, :-)

 

I was just paddling in the big pot with a big spoon, I see some rings in the pea soup, if not kicking some on the lower legs.

we can see at the hybrid marin site, it don't have to be much more expensive then a usual setup. sun panels is extra but hopefully they pay for them self.

 

Jan

[nb Innisfree]

 

Maybe thinking about it the other way around might help. The usual approach is 'I need, this, and this, and this, and this - so I'm going to make it work. How many panels will I need

 

How about starting from 'a boat this size can carry this many panels. Using this empirical data I can generate this much power from them. What can I do with that?'

 

Richard

I used to work out how many panels we could carry but, as full time liveboard ccers, reality gradually took over as our roof gradually filled with various necessities.

[Cheese please]

Our floating cheese shop SQ2 is propelled by a 20kw motor. The power comes from a 11kva genset in a cocoon, which charges a ton and half of batts 1100ah @ 48v. We can cruise silently (bar prop wash) for 6-8 hours depending on speed. We have navigated a just come out of flood river Avon and Severn. We can cruise with gen set on for those days when needs must. We usually use gen set alongside motorways, through towns or anywhere there is background noise. We scare the hell out of fisherpersons with expensive poles with a blast of horn at last second.

We have electric underfloor heating, micro/grill/oven thingy and induction hob, 2 fridges and a freezer.

Having no gas means minimal vents so gentle heating combined with good insulation and double glazing means nice and toasty with no cold spots.

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

Making in depth enquiries in the direction of hydrogen gen set at moment.

Have a great app that monitors the boat (boat manager) with graphs and stats of fuel etc.

With diesel being the only fuel it means we never have to lift gas bottles or logs (even the cheese gets delivered).

Electrickery does work

In 10-20 yrs time if the greenies have their way there will be no fossil fuels to burn, but my prop will still be turning.

Loving it

Sue just corrected me. There will be fossil fuels, we just won't be able to afford it. Mad Max springs to mind!

[Biggles]

I am two months from achieving my 20 yr dream of living on the cut. I had to get rid of the wife to do it but what the heck? No more

 

As such I have been updating my knowledge of whats out there. Boy have things changed!

 

I came across the blog: (http://solarpowerednarrowboat.blogspot.co.uk/ )

 

Has anyone gone all electric propulsion/cooking or experience with large solar setups on the cut?

Although, I have no aversion to blazing a trail I would rather not reinvent the wheel! I have pulled together info from many sources but would prefer to hear from anyone with real world experience. Thanks.

 

We have a domestic 240v combi oven and it works perfectly running form the 12v through the inverter when we are cruising along so we do all our roasting etc when on the move. Or simply run the engine or genny if we are stationary. Even with the oven on we can still get over 50amps of charge into the batteries.

[bizzard]

Our floating cheese shop SQ2 is propelled by a 20kw motor. The power comes from a 11kva genset in a cocoon, which charges a ton and half of batts 1100ah @ 48v. We can cruise silently (bar prop wash) for 6-8 hours depending on speed. We have navigated a just come out of flood river Avon and Severn. We can cruise with gen set on for those days when needs must. We usually use gen set alongside motorways, through towns or anywhere there is background noise. We scare the hell out of fisherpersons with expensive poles with a blast of horn at last second.

We have electric underfloor heating, micro/grill/oven thingy and induction hob, 2 fridges and a freezer.

Having no gas means minimal vents so gentle heating combined with good insulation and double glazing means nice and toasty with no cold spots.

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

Making in depth enquiries in the direction of hydrogen gen set at moment.

Have a great app that monitors the boat (boat manager) with graphs and stats of fuel etc.

With diesel being the only fuel it means we never have to lift gas bottles or logs (even the cheese gets delivered).

Electrickery does work

In 10-20 yrs time if the greenies have their way there will be no fossil fuels to burn, but my prop will still be turning.

Loving it

Sue just corrected me. There will be fossil fuels, we just won't be able to afford it. Mad Max springs to mind!

So if there are no fossil fuels or you won't be able to afford them, your prop will stop turning. No 11 KVA genset.

[Nickhlx]

Hmmmmm....

 

Butty with half an acre of panels ?

Edited August 9, 2013 by Nickhlx

[bizzard]

So if there are no fossil fuels or you won't be able to afford them, your prop will stop turning. No 11 KVA genset.

You could tow it with a Pedalo.

[Cheese please]

I mentioned hydrogen genny, but who knows where we will be in 10 to 20 yrs.

Overhead cables and a pantograph? (joke)

Inductive chargingl, like newfangled phones.

It only takes a toaster sized piece of nuclear stuff to push many many tons of submarine around the world for many years, we only need an Oxo sized bit!

[DaveC]

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

 

 

 

When is the "cheese selling season"?

 

I eat cheese all year round!

 

 

Dave

[Robbo]

Our floating cheese shop SQ2 is propelled by a 20kw motor. The power comes from a 11kva genset in a cocoon, which charges a ton and half of batts 1100ah @ 48v. We can cruise silently (bar prop wash) for 6-8 hours depending on speed. We have navigated a just come out of flood river Avon and Severn. We can cruise with gen set on for those days when needs must. We usually use gen set alongside motorways, through towns or anywhere there is background noise. We scare the hell out of fisherpersons with expensive poles with a blast of horn at last second.

We have electric underfloor heating, micro/grill/oven thingy and induction hob, 2 fridges and a freezer.

Having no gas means minimal vents so gentle heating combined with good insulation and double glazing means nice and toasty with no cold spots.

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

Making in depth enquiries in the direction of hydrogen gen set at moment.

Have a great app that monitors the boat (boat manager) with graphs and stats of fuel etc.

With diesel being the only fuel it means we never have to lift gas bottles or logs (even the cheese gets delivered).

Electrickery does work

In 10-20 yrs time if the greenies have their way there will be no fossil fuels to burn, but my prop will still be turning.

Loving it

Sue just corrected me. There will be fossil fuels, we just won't be able to afford it. Mad Max springs to mind!

 

Why did you go for electric heating? Even though you have a very large bank of batteries it would still be hard on them when the generator isn't running. As diesel is still the source fuel it would have made sense to use water UFH so could use the heat from a diesel boiler and in addition plumb the generator in via heat exchanger as well.

[nb Innisfree]

Our floating cheese shop SQ2 is propelled by a 20kw motor. The power comes from a 11kva genset in a cocoon, which charges a ton and half of batts 1100ah @ 48v. We can cruise silently (bar prop wash) for 6-8 hours depending on speed. We have navigated a just come out of flood river Avon and Severn. We can cruise with gen set on for those days when needs must. We usually use gen set alongside motorways, through towns or anywhere there is background noise. We scare the hell out of fisherpersons with expensive poles with a blast of horn at last second.

We have electric underfloor heating, micro/grill/oven thingy and induction hob, 2 fridges and a freezer.

Having no gas means minimal vents so gentle heating combined with good insulation and double glazing means nice and toasty with no cold spots.

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

Making in depth enquiries in the direction of hydrogen gen set at moment.

Have a great app that monitors the boat (boat manager) with graphs and stats of fuel etc.

With diesel being the only fuel it means we never have to lift gas bottles or logs (even the cheese gets delivered).

Electrickery does work

In 10-20 yrs time if the greenies have their way there will be no fossil fuels to burn, but my prop will still be turning.

Loving it

Sue just corrected me. There will be fossil fuels, we just won't be able to afford it. Mad Max springs to mind!

That's more like it, the real world. Any idea of your daily kw consumption?

[RLWP]

SQII sounds like a highly inefficient diesel boat at the moment to me

 

Richard

[Cheese please]

SQII sounds like a highly inefficient diesel boat at the moment to me

 

Richard

We are averaging 100 hrs/ month (May June July) @2.3 L/hour. Assuming 12 weeks in 3 months then we are using 300/12= 25hrs/week. 25x2.3= 57.5 L/week.

May through to September is our busiest time gadding about the system selling cheese and our mileage I would guess is similar to a hire boat.

I spent many years in hire fleets and a cruise of say Bunbury to Llangollen would use IRO 70 ltr (although some less throttle heavy only used 50).

Add the LPG and maybe some solid fuel then we are more efficient.

That's your Isuzu 42 Beta 43 etc, we had a SR3 in a 50 footer that was much more economical than all the above on propulsion by a country mile (pun intended), it's downside was no free(?) hot water and poor insulation meant more gas and logs.

Back to SQ2, genset will get coupled to calorifier this winter along with ten tube solar water heating.

I am a long way from saying that we have discovered perpetual motion but it's pleasing us with performance and we get discounts on licensing, private river fees and I have only come across 1 fuel seller that we could not convince to sell at 0-100%

When boat manager app has a few more months data I will happily publish it, many graphs and stats.

Sorry didn't reply yesterday had to go watch Status Quo and Mungo Jerry. Fantastic

[George94]

Our floating cheese shop SQ2 is propelled by a 20kw motor. The power comes from a 11kva genset in a cocoon, which charges a ton and half of batts 1100ah @ 48v. We can cruise silently (bar prop wash) for 6-8 hours depending on speed. We have navigated a just come out of flood river Avon and Severn. We can cruise with gen set on for those days when needs must. We usually use gen set alongside motorways, through towns or anywhere there is background noise. We scare the hell out of fisherpersons with expensive poles with a blast of horn at last second.

We have electric underfloor heating, micro/grill/oven thingy and induction hob, 2 fridges and a freezer.

Having no gas means minimal vents so gentle heating combined with good insulation and double glazing means nice and toasty with no cold spots.

Solar water heating and 12 pv to be fitted after the cheese selling season.

Making in depth enquiries in the direction of hydrogen gen set at moment.

Have a great app that monitors the boat (boat manager) with graphs and stats of fuel etc.

With diesel being the only fuel it means we never have to lift gas bottles or logs (even the cheese gets delivered).

Electrickery does work

In 10-20 yrs time if the greenies have their way there will be no fossil fuels to burn, but my prop will still be turning.

Loving it

Sue just corrected me. There will be fossil fuels, we just won't be able to afford it. Mad Max springs to mind!

Oh dear. What you have is a boat that uses diesel to power an electric motor. Without the diesel, you are nowhere.

 

It's taking a long time for some people to realise that a purely solar-powered boat will be totally useless in winter, and severely limited in range in summer. If you can live with that, great, but if you want a boat in the true meaning of the word (a vessel that actually moves) then you can't get away from fossil fuels.

 

Why did you go for electric heating? Even though you have a very large bank of batteries it would still be hard on them when the generator isn't running. As diesel is still the source fuel it would have made sense to use water UFH so could use the heat from a diesel boiler and in addition plumb the generator in via heat exchanger as well.

 

I don't think a lot of thought has gone into this boat. It would have been much more economical to use a diesel heater.

That's more like it, the real world. Any idea of your daily kw consumption?

 

Which real world are you talking about? Using diesel to generate electricity to provide heating might work in a different world where diesel generators are 100% efficient, but sadly that is not the case on planet Earth.

[RLWP]

Which real world are you talking about? Using diesel to generate electricity to provide heating might work in a different world where diesel generators are 100% efficient, but sadly that is not the case on planet Earth.

 

Using diesel to make electric to store in batteries to be retrieved later to drive motors and make heat is even less efficient

 

Richard

[George94]

 

Using diesel to make electric to store in batteries to be retrieved later to drive motors and make heat is even less efficient

 

Richard

I suppose it's not so bad in winter if the heat from the genny is captured and used to heat the boat.

[Grace and Favour]

I suppose it's not so bad in winter if the heat from the genny is captured and used to heat the boat.

It's still not as efficient as 'rubbing two boy scouts together*'

 

(*allegedly - this was used as a figure of speech only - and is not intended to refer to any person, celebrity or otherwise, whom may, or may not, be accused, correctly or incorrectly, of causing friction with scouts, of any gender, for any reason, whether it be for alleged self-gratification or otherwise, whatsoever)

 

 

Phew

[nb Innisfree]

Which real world are you talking about? Using diesel to generate electricity to provide heating might work in a different world where diesel generators are 100% efficient, but sadly that is not the case on planet Earth.

The real world of all electric boating, as opposed to the fanciful world of solar powered all electric boating. What else did you think I was talking about?? Yes generating to provide heat is inefficient but so is charging batteries to run TVs, lighting, water pumps, fridges etc etc.

 

Don't get carried away with the idea that modern canal boating is somehow 'efficient'