The Fate Of The Camouflage Boat.....

[nicknorman]

... but loads of things I like talking about.

Ah, the power of understatement!

[Timleech]

Just wondering, I seem to remember Nicknorman admitting to (boasting of?) riding at silly speeds on his flashy motorcycle.

If so, does he report himself every time he goes over the speed limit?

 

 

 

Oh, I forgot, speed limits don't apply to motorcyclists.

 

Tim

[nicknorman]

 

Oh, I forgot, speed limits don't apply to motorcyclists.

 

Tim

Don't be silly, everyone knows that!

[Chris Pink]

 

I thought we were part of a discussion rather than an argument, but there you go. My English is obviously too complex for you to understand. I have however arrived at an entrenched point of view - it is that you will not accept any evidence which says that canal history is not as you have decided. Where you go from that point is up to you and I don't really care. I've got no interest in discussing something with someone who is simply out to win points.

 

 

 

And I'd like you to either retract or produce evidence for your allegation about my boat use please.

To return to the OP briefly, I have recently been told that Paul Griffin issued this boat with a Rivers licence as their movement was sufficient to satisfy the law.

 

That is was subsequently taken away and a court order granted on those grounds implies strongly to me that this action wasn't defended and moreover, if it had been defended, CRT would have stood a good chance of losing.

[Mick and Maggie]

Just because a boat is not displaying a licence does not ruddy mean a boat is not licensed.

I agree, SWMBO said that I had misplaced our new set, so for about a month we had neither mooring or boat licences displayed.

[mayalld]

That is was subsequently taken away and a court order granted on those grounds implies strongly to me that this action wasn't defended and moreover, if it had been defended, CRT would have stood a good chance of losing.

 

I believe I have already posted to say that the action wasn't defended.

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/3490.pdf

 

However, as I have also stated above;

 

If the boat owner doesn't bother to defend the action, he can't reasonably say "Yeah well, if I'd defended it, I would have won", as if that means that CRT didn't *really* win the case (with the implied rider that if they win an undefended case, they lack moral authority to act).

[Chris Pink]

 

 

 

If the boat owner doesn't bother to defend the action, he can't reasonably say "Yeah well, if I'd defended it, I would have won", as if that means that CRT didn't *really* win the case (with the implied rider that if they win an undefended case, they lack moral authority to act).

 

Has he said that?

 

or is this the legendary Mayall psychic powers again?

[mayalld]

 

Has he said that?

 

or is this the legendary Mayall psychic powers again?

 

I am not aware of anything that Mr Fletcher may or may not have said, and have made no claim to that effect.

 

Neither have I made any suggestion that I have psychic powers.

 

I merely seek to move the discussion forward by anticipating potential responses that may well be made to my post, and responding to them before they are made.

 

I should have taken account that some participants in the discussion are unable to process information that fast.

[mark99]

The law is a moving feast and there are some interesting moral and social angles too. It does not really lend itself to sticking to hard and fast rules or codes of conduct.

 

 

For instance, not so long ago (up to 1967) "man on man" was illegal. In some countries it still is, so by moving between two arbitary places, or places in history you could be regarded as a criminal / at risk of being "dobbed in" or not.

 

The law can be an ass (sic).

 

Mark

Edited July 22, 2013 by mark99

[Chop!]

I agree, SWMBO said that I had misplaced our new set, so for about a month we had neither mooring or boat licences displayed.

We paid for our licenses in April, one arrived soon after, the other arrived last week (after many phonecalls)

Does the Jim Shead listing take into account EA licenses? According to his site our boats were last licensed in 2012.

Our motor is called Freyja II, in the listing, not Freyja and our butty is "unpowered with 999 bhp"! LOL!

Edited July 22, 2013 by Chop!

[Doorman]

I could knock up a fake licence in Word in a few minutes and stick it in the windows along with painting a fake index number on the boat and whilst this would satisfy jo public it would still in the end only be picked up if checked by CRT

Martin,

 

Could I pay you for one of those fake licences with some of my fake Irish ten pence pieces! Eamon on the next boat knocks them out at 5 pence a go. He files down the corners on fifty pence pieces to make them!

[mayalld]

It does nothing of the sort - I could knock up a fake licence in Word in a few minutes and stick it in the windows along with painting a fake index number on the boat and whilst this would satisfy jo public it would still in the end only be picked up if checked by CRT

Of course that adds a whole new dimension.

 

Failing to get a licence is an administrative thing for which the redress is either that you have to remove your boat or pay some extra charges over and above what you should have paid.

 

Displaying a forged licence turns it into a criminal offence. Faking a licence to avoid detection is monumentally stupid

[Paul C]

Indeed, if you asked Chris Huhne or Vicky Pryce if it was worth the hassle of what they did, I'm sure they'd say probably not, just pay the licence and make sure you follow the requirement to display it too.

[nicknorman]

Of course that adds a whole new dimension.

Failing to get a licence is an administrative thing for which the redress is either that you have to remove your boat or pay some extra charges over and above what you should have paid.

Displaying a forged licence turns it into a criminal offence. Faking a licence to avoid detection is monumentally stupid

Surely failure to have a licence (as required by whatever Act) and forgery are both criminal offences?

[mark99]

Surely failure to have a licence (as required by whatever Act) and forgery are both criminal offences?

Not sure - licence one may be a civil action?

 

"A civil action is usually bought following a claim that one side has broken their contract with the other. However, a civil action can also relate to duties imposed by the common law without the need for a contract. For example, a civil action can be brought if a person defames you or trespasses on your land. Unlike criminal proceedings where the State almost always has the role of prosecuting individuals who are alleged to have broken the criminal law, in a civil action one party takes proceedings against another party"

 

Edited July 22, 2013 by mark99

[Hawkmoth]

 

 

 

 

Oh, I forgot, speed limits don't apply to motorcyclists.

 

Tim

It's a shame! But they do.

Bob

[Timleech]

It's a shame! But they do.

Bob

 

 

Of course I know they do. I wish more motorcyclists took notice of them.

 

Tim

[Starcoaster]

CBA edit.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Starcoaster

[Barry]

 

 

Of course I know they do. I wish more motorcyclists took notice of them.

 

Tim

 

I can assure you that this motorcyclist takes notice of speed limits. There are many more like me too

[Hawkmoth]

 

 

Of course I know they do. I wish more motorcyclists took notice of them.

 

Tim

Yeah, I know this is completely off topic, but just think. a biker these days has to be 21 if coming through the system, or 24 for direct access to get a "superbike" licence. It doesn't matter how much money they have. Rich kid at 17 can buy and drive a "supercar". Such car can hold, say, 4 people, and then through stupidity maybe hit another car with 4 people in it.

A biker is almost always solo, if he's doing something stupid the chances are far greater he will only kill himself.

So, if your'e going to be silly, and what young kid isn't? A bike is the thing to do it on.

[Ray T]

A biker is almost always solo, if he's doing something stupid the chances are far greater he will only kill himself.

So, if your'e going to be silly, and what young kid isn't? A bike is the thing to do it on.

 

Yes, but what about the poor folks who have to clear up the mess

 

A biker can very easily take a car out:

 

 

This picture is one of a series from The Swedish Police where a biker was travelling at an estimated 155 MPH where he hit a car pulling out of a junction.

The police said he was travelling at such a speed his reaction time was insufficient to avoid the crash, insufficient even enough for him to apply the breaks.

The car had 2 passengers and the rider was found inside the car. The car had flipped over and landed 3m from where the collision took place.

 

All 3 were killed instantly.

 

At 155MPH the rider is travelling at 227ft/sec.

Normal reaction time to SEE - DECIDE - REACT is 1.6 secs.

 

In this case the rider would have travelled over 363ft while making a decision on what action to take and the Swedish Police indicated that no action could have been taken.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Ray T

[Timleech]

 

I can assure you that this motorcyclist takes notice of speed limits. There are many more like me too

 

I didn't in any way suggest that all bikers ignore limits. There are plenty though who do - you see them especially on the roads around here at the end of TT fortnight or after an Oulton Park bike race meeting.

Yes I know there are idiot car drivers as well. We encountered both types on the Woodhead Pass last weekend, one was very lucky not to be wiped out by the other. Possibly not exceeding speed limits in this case, but ignoring double white lines and sensible speeds.

 

Tim

Edited July 22, 2013 by Timleech

[Guest]

There are maniacs in all sorts of vehicles. Some bikers are insane, but as usual they are the ones we notice (which is the effect that they desire); all the sensible ones are invisible. I think it rather unfair to single bikers out.

Now if you had said my mate Smithy on his pushbike, he should be banned. He is nothing short of a menace when pedalling home drunk.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Guest

[Barry]

 

I didn't in any way suggest that all bikers ignore limits. There are plenty though who do - you see them especially on the roads around here at the end of TT fortnight or after an Oulton Park bike race meeting.

Yes I know there are idiot car drivers as well. We encountered both types on the Woodhead Pass last weekend, one was very lucky not to be wiped out by the other. Possibly not exceeding speed limits in this case, but ignoring double white lines and sensible speeds.

 

Tim

 

Your post 327 was a definite sweeping statement that needed challenging.

 

Its that kind of unfair criticism that tars all motorcyclists with the same brush.

 

I completely accept that there are some stupid people riding bikes, but not all

[Timleech]

 

Your post 327 was a definite sweeping statement that needed challenging.

 

Its that kind of unfair criticism that tars all motorcyclists with the same brush.

 

I completely accept that there are some stupid people riding bikes, but not all

 

That post was aimed particularly at nicknorman, who in this thread has painted himself as whiter than white but has previously bragged about riding at silly speeds on his bike.

If there weren't a fairly large number of bikers who disregard limits etc, why would they bother to put up speed sensitive signs aimed specifically at bikers? Why would they bother with aerial patrols on some of the pennine passes at certain summer times, specifically looking out for dodgy riders?

 

I'm not trying to suggest it's a majority, but certainly a significant number.

 

Tim