Expectation of distance/hours cruising .

[pomkitanner]

I am attempting to determine what i may expect with regard to how much ground i might cover on our weeks Holiday. We depart early Saturday morning Sept 21st from Barnoldswick having arrived late the previous evening , probably close to dusk . Dont missunderstand , i am in no special hurry but in planning we need to know the extent to our research. No point in reseaching Leeds if its out of the picture for e.g. I note the daylight hours to be approx 12 and we are happy to do 9 hour days as we did previously on the Oxford. Of course its entirely possible that some days may include a 2-3 hour lunch. I am aware there may be logistical reasons why we wont be able to push on regardles, Queues at Bingly for example, possibility of closed sections ??? Any other issues i may not have considered? Our route will be eastward and as a minimum we hope to traverse the Bingly 5 rise and perhaps as far as Shipley. As yet we dont have a route map detailing number of Swing bridges/locks etc, and being a wide canal am unsure how long a double lock averages in comparrison to a narrow canal.

Many Thanks

Derek

Edited May 18, 2013 by pomkitanner

[Paul C]

www.canalplan.ork.uk should be able to help you out. Also, the relevant Pearson's guide for the waterway will give a ROUGH idea of the time it takes for a particular section of canal.

[Guest]

 

I am attempting to determine what i may expect with regard to how much ground i might cover on our weeks Holiday. We depart early Saturday morning Sept 21st from Barnoldswick having arrived late the previous evening , probably close to dusk . Dont missunderstand , i am in no special hurry but in planning we need to know the extent to our research. No point in reseaching Leeds if its out of the picture for e.g. I note the daylight hours to be approx 12 and we are happy to do 9 hour days as we did previously on the Oxford. Of course its entirely possible that some days may include a 2-3 hour lunch. I am aware there may be logistical reasons why we wont be able to push on regardles, Queues at Bingly for example, possibility of closed sections ??? Any other issues i may not have considered? Our route will be eastward and as a minimum we hope to traverse the Bingly 5 rise and perhaps as far as Shipley. As yet we dont have a route map detailing number of Swing bridges/locks etc, and being a wide canal am unsure how long a double lock averages in comparrison to a narrow canal.

Many Thanks

Derek

 

 

Yes I agree I would describe Leeds and back as very ambitious.

 

Canal planner says 8 days doing 7 hour days so in theory 9-10 hour days would make it possible, but it would be a bit of a 'route march' to be honest with the added stress of risking not getting back to Barnoldswick in time on the last day, not my idea of fun. Also bear in mind after pick up, and handover on the first day you will get nowhere near a full day in.

 

http://canalplan.eu/cgi-bin/canal.cgi?session=CA5140_2

 

The very furthest I would aim for would be just past Shipley. You can wind just above Field Locks and head back home. This gives you -

 

 

Totals

Total distance is 63 miles, 1½ furlongs and 52 locks. There are at least 58 moveable bridges of which 6 are usually left open and 50 small aqueducts or underbridges.

This is made up of 63 miles, 1½ furlongs of broad canals; 52 broad locks.

This will take 38 hours, 59 minutes which is 5 days, 3 hours and 59 minutes at 7 hours per day. For calculation purposes this is taken as 6 days.

Still 'stretching' but more doable.

You are unlikely to have to queue for very long at Bingley in September - any significant wait is normally caused if you and another boat want to go up or down and there is a pair of boats just gone down and others waiting to come the other way.

They can however sometimes 'cross' boats in the flight to save time, it's up to the Lockies to decide when to do this.

Edited May 18, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

As a general rule of thumb, you will rarely get quite as far as you thought you would each day. So many things will conspire to slow your progress: lines of moored boats which should be passed on tickover, queues at locks, and that annoying chap in front of you who likes progressing at one-and-a-half mph on narrow stretches where you can't easily overtake him.

Such trips are a balance between the desire to cover as much waterway as you can in your allotted time, and an equally valid desire to stop and explore places of interest. But long lunch stops could severely restrict the distance you cover each day. When we are on a longer cruise we never stop for lunch; we eat sandwiches as we go along. The trick, of course, is not to start the sandwiches just before reaching a lock, consume them while going along a lock-free pound.

And finally: if you want to travel a long distance, why only nine hours per day? If you've got 12 hours' daylight per day, aim to use at least eleven of them!

[Titus]

Most setting of from Barlick find that a good weeks cruise is down to Saltaire and back, that incorporates many different places and experiences including Bingley 5 Rise, don't try and go too far, just enjoy your holiday and wave when you pass our mooring.

 

Dave

[Arthur Brown]

While it's not impossible it soon becomes work rather than a holiday. Only you and your cruise companions can decide the priorities for the holiday.

If you must make somewhere then maybe you must also make some long days with 12 hours cruising.

[Janet S]

Oh no! I thought you were booking 28th Sept?

 

Janet

[FadeToScarlet]

While it's not impossible it soon becomes work rather than a holiday. Only you and your cruise companions can decide the priorities for the holiday.

If you must make somewhere then maybe you must also make some long days with 12 hours cruising.

All very much down to personal taste, of course. To us, 12 hours is a normal day, with some being longer.

 

We like to aim for about 40 lock miles a day, and have managed 50 on a couple of occasions.

 

I suppose this is because, as liveaboards, we can sit about on the boat reading and relaxing for the rest of the year- when we go boating, we like to be boating, not sitting about.

 

As a general rule of thumb, you will rarely get quite as far as you thought you would each day. So many things will conspire to slow your progress: lines of moored boats which should be passed on tickover, queues at locks, and that annoying chap in front of you who likes progressing at one-and-a-half mph on narrow stretches where you can't easily overtake him.

Such trips are a balance between the desire to cover as much waterway as you can in your allotted time, and an equally valid desire to stop and explore places of interest. But long lunch stops could severely restrict the distance you cover each day. When we are on a longer cruise we never stop for lunch; we eat sandwiches as we go along. The trick, of course, is not to start the sandwiches just before reaching a lock, consume them while going along a lock-free pound.

And finally: if you want to travel a long distance, why only nine hours per day? If you've got 12 hours' daylight per day, aim to use at least eleven of them!

I find we tend to get further- we tend to look at a map or Canalplan, go "we shan't get to Y, let's go to X which is five miles closer", and then at the end of the day say "well, we're nearly there, we might as well carry on past X to Y...."

 

I do very much agree on lunches, though. I can count the times we've stopped for lunch on the fingers of one hand, and mostly that was to wait for friends. Bacon sandwiches for breakfast, a decent lunch of something like soup and grilled cheese sandwiches (a brilliant American invention!) and then a bowl of pasta or something later on.

 

All very different to the supposed 1960s working boater diet of coffee and cigarettes!

 

But again it's all down to personal taste- we're young and foolish and have to compress the entirety of our canal boating on our boat into one long trip a year (with lots of local ones around the Fens too) and so we have a very different approach to someone CCing about.

[Janet S]

Stopping for lunch? Really?

 

Breakfast for us is usually a full English...bacon, beans, black pudding, tomatoes, sausages, mushrooms, kidneys, egg and either fried bread or toast...we need to do a few locks to work it all off!

 

Lunch is always taken on the go...home made soup and crusty bread...toasted cheese, onion and ham sandwiches, left over pasta from the night before...even Pot Noodles at a pinch...the main thing being that we just don't stop!

 

Dinner is usually wonderful...may be something as simple as baked potatoes and chilli con carne, spag bol which has been simmering all afternoon or a bankside BBQ of sausages, pork spare ribs, burgers etc...all served with salad and a good bottle of wine!

 

Like FadeToScarlet, our boating normally consists of one long trip per year...we need to make the most of it!

 

Janet

[steven wilkinson]

complete opposite here! ours are holidays though!

 

• up late
• leisurely breakfast
• think about where we might get to for lunch
• stop for lunch
• consider stopping there all day
• consider where we might stop for tea
• head off after relaxed lunch
• will we make our tea location? don't care!
• oooh - that pub looks a nice place to stop
• lets just stop here tonight
• we can do that extra 2 miles easily in the morning
• have a cosy night at the pub
• off to bed

 

• up late
• forget about those extra two miles!
• Bacon sarnie and coffee anyone?
• Where shall we stop for lunch?

You get the picture

[Janet S]

Ah but...you have the luxury of having your own boat...we're restricted to hiring so need to make the most of all the time available!

 

Janet

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

complete opposite here! ours are holidays though!

 

• up late
• leisurely breakfast
• think about where we might get to for lunch
• stop for lunch
• consider stopping there all day
• consider where we might stop for tea
• head off after relaxed lunch
• will we make our tea location? don't care!
• oooh - that pub looks a nice place to stop
• lets just stop here tonight
• we can do that extra 2 miles easily in the morning
• have a cosy night at the pub
• off to bed

• up late
• forget about those extra two miles!
• Bacon sarnie and coffee anyone?
• Where shall we stop for lunch?

You get the picture

Sounds good to me!

 

Early morning starts are good, 5 or 6 am, on the sunny mornings, lovely. By 12pm I've then put in enough hours to deserve stopping for early doors. I'm lucky I have time.

 

I understand a hirer may want to cover as much as possible. I'd set shorter distances, as someone suggested, then your not disappointed if you get there, and it's a bonus if you get further. Be prepared to chuck a plan out the window too.

 

A good question, and it's interesting to hear the patterns/habits of others.

[bottle]

When hiring: up early, leave early, travel six to eight hours, non stop.

 

Now live-aboard: up early (cannot break that habit) leave late if moving, might travel for two hours, once a week.

[FadeToScarlet]

If I'm doing a journey and have a specified time window, as I would do if hiring, I work out the timings and rough places to stop for an imaginary "pace boat", I.e. as long as I'm going slightly further or for longer, we will get back to where we need to be on time.

[Tuscan]

When hiring: up early, leave early, travel six to eight hours, non stop.

 

Now live-aboard: up early (cannot break that habit) leave late if moving, might travel for two hours, once a week.

That's so true we have slowed right down when we are out , the joy of finding somewhere new and not having to be somewhere is fantastic.

[Athy]

, I work out the timings and rough places to stop

 

 

I try to find more pleasant places to stop.

[Ange]

When we were hiring we never got into the loop or ring stuff. We cruised for about 6 hours per day, stopping where we felt like it, then when we were half way through the holiday turned the boat around and made our way back at the same leisurely pace.

 

It's a holiday - relax enjoy and don't make it a chore was what we loved about hiring.

 

The advantage of owning our own boat is that we don't have to turn around and go back - we can just keep pootling on at the same pace and can stop for a few days when we like somewhere. And stay still when it's blowing a hooley or piddling down with rain. I can remember one holiday on the Llangollen where I was soaked to the skin working the locks - not something I'd choose to do nowadays.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Ange

[pomkitanner]

Ha ! Think I'll repost with "Whats for Breakfast!" Seems a popular topic ,

Thanks for all the responses, quite a few good answers, giving food for thought. No pun intended ! However one question i do need answered refers to lock times . Being au Fait on narrow canals i wonder if wide locks envolve longer timings ? - completely in the dark. Think i shall pencil in Shipley as a goal, and be happy that Bingly is well within my weeks allotment, Thanks Martin.

[Offcumden]

Re Lock Timings

 

Theoretically the wide locks sould be faster than the ones you have been used to

 

1 You can share with another narrowboat and its crew

2 Even if there is no one to share with you can enter and exit the lock though one gate you don't have to open both gates.

3 The locks you will be using are shoter than those you have used previously and I can't say I have noticed any greater time spent filling or emptying them.

 

If you wish to enjoy a visit to Leeds I would suggest in the first part of your week making good time to say Shipley/ Saltaire where there are frequent trains/buses into Leeds to explore the Armories and the Markets.

It will also enable you to draw up a wish list of where you want to stop on the way back and just how much time you can spend doing so.

 

Enjoy John

[Guest]

Ha ! Think I'll repost with "Whats for Breakfast!" Seems a popular topic ,

Thanks for all the responses, quite a few good answers, giving food for thought. No pun intended ! However one question i do need answered refers to lock times . Being au Fait on narrow canals i wonder if wide locks envolve longer timings ? - completely in the dark. Think i shall pencil in Shipley as a goal, and be happy that Bingly is well within my weeks allotment, Thanks Martin.

 

The wide locks will take a bit longer if you are the only boat and if you only have one crew member doing the gates and paddles (and they are going to be opening both gates each time.

 

The bigger volumes of water involved don't make a huge difference in empty/fill times as of course you have an extra set of gate paddles to empty/fill the lock with.

 

You can shorten the times involved if you are the only boat by only opening the gates on one side, effectively treating it as a single lock, but the steerer needs to be quite skilled to avoid rubbing the gate edge (where the gate seals), and this practice is frowned upon in some quarters because of the risk of doing this.

 

In practice the wide locks won't add a huge amount of time to your journey times, virtually none at all if you are sharing with another boat, or if you have a crew member simultaneously working both sides.

 

One thing that you will find different are the ground paddles on some of the locks.

 

 

This is not my picture - but it illustrates the difference, they can by 'sticky' and are best tackled with an abrupt tug upwards initially and then push/walk them open as this guy is doing, when you get the hang of them they are a quicker than ground paddles that need to be wound up and down.

Edited May 19, 2013 by The Dog House

[Athy]

Interesting - I have not seen that type of paddle before; perhaps it is confined to Northern waters, which we have not yet penetrated?

Is this an example of what's known as a "jack clough", which I have read about, and which sounds to me as if it should be a character in 'Coronation Street'?

Edited May 19, 2013 by Athy

[Guest]

Interesting - I have not seen that type of paddle before; perhaps it is confined to Northern waters, which we have not yet penetrated?

Is this an example of what's known as a "jack clough", which I have read about, and which sounds to me as if it should be a character in 'Cornation Street'?

 

I understand they are peculiar to the Leeds and Liverpool, rather than the Northern Waterways as such, somebody may have seen them elsewhere but I haven't.

 

As to the name - I'm not sure to be honest, the blogger, who's picture that is refers to them by that name but I don't know if they are correct, a search on here also suggests that is the name for them too.

[Jerra]

I understand they are peculiar to the Leeds and Liverpool, rather than the Northern Waterways as such, somebody may have seen them elsewhere but I haven't..

Interesting! They certainly aren't on all the Leeds Liverpool, haven't done a lot of it but we certainly didn't come across any of those.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Interesting! They certainly aren't on all the Leeds Liverpool, haven't done a lot of it but we certainly didn't come across any of those.

They look like what are still on the Newbury town lock, although smaller and padlocked down, out of use.

So are they the original, earlier method of emptying and filling a lock? Before winding paddles up and down?

Edited May 19, 2013 by Goliath

[Guest]

Interesting! They certainly aren't on all the Leeds Liverpool, haven't done a lot of it but we certainly didn't come across any of those.

 

This is so.

 

- as I said they are only on some of them. Bank Newton Locks certainly have them, amongst others.

 

They look like what are still on the Newbury town lock, although smaller and padlocked down, out of use.

So are they the original, earlier method of emptying and filling a lock? Before winding paddles up and down?

 

I don't believe so - AFAIK they are just a different design, (open to correction on that though) I suppose arguably they have less to go wrong too.

 

A better picture - again not mine but it shows one 'complete'

 

 

Picture - © www.redstarline.org.uk

Edited May 19, 2013 by The Dog House