TV licence

[Ex- Member]

Is avoiding a TV licence any more, or less, acceptable than overstaying on VM's?

 

Boating > General Boating > CM'ers - hogging service

Julynian

Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:35 PM

 

Quote

 

but could they have a broken gear box and be waiting for a mechanic to fix it?

 

That's hardly an excuse, a boat can easily moved with ropes.

 

A the end of the day the boat simply shouldn't be there unless it's using services and that doesn't take very long let alone 4 days. it's bloody minded ignorance and inconsiderate. I personally wouldn't dream of doing the same and inconveniencing people, I behave the same when parking my vehicles lorries especially.

 

Relevance ???????

 

There's ample room to move this boat a short distance even if broken down to enable easier access for experienced or novice boaters. These are probably the sort of people I wouldn't want to speak to anyway and probably wouldn't take much notice if you did.

 

They clearly live in a world of their own.

 

Relevance ???????

Edited April 2, 2013 by Julynian

[carlt]

Well it's a loophole, they can't issue a licence with no address I have no address,

My Uncle failed his driving test over 20 times so it's looking like he'll never get a pass (He's actually given up trying now).

 

Is it okay for him to drive a car without a licence because DVLA are unable to issue one without a test pass?

[Ex- Member]

My Uncle failed his driving test over 20 times so it's looking like he'll never get a pass (He's actually given up trying now).

 

Is it okay for him to drive a car without a licence because DVLA are unable to issue one without a test pass?

 

failed his driving test

 

I know of no-one getting a driving licence for failing their test If he's given up, then why would he want one :wacko:

[carlt]

I know of no-one getting a driving licence for failing their test If he's given up, then why would he want one :wacko:

He has accepted that he is unable to get a pass certificate which means DVLA are unable to issue a licence so he could choose to break the law, by driving without a licence, or not break the law and not drive.

 

You say that you are unable to get a forwarding address (though it's not that hard) so TVLA are unable to issue a licence so you could choose to break the law, by watching TV without a licence or not break the law and not watch TV.

 

I don't see the difference, personally.

[Ex- Member]

He has accepted that he is unable to get a pass certificate which means DVLA are unable to issue a licence so he could choose to break the law, by driving without a licence, or not break the law and not drive.

 

You say that you are unable to get a forwarding address (though it's not that hard) so TVLA are unable to issue a licence so you could choose to break the law, by watching TV without a licence or not break the law and not watch TV.

 

I don't see the difference, personally.

 

 

You say that you are unable to get a forwarding address (though it's not that hard)

 

I said I have no desire for an address and won't be forced to have one for a TV licence, so I'll take my chances

[carlt]

I said I have no desire for an address and won't be forced to have one for a TV licence, so I'll take my chances

Fair enough but you don't have to have an address, just somewhere TVLA can send your licence to.

 

The Stophouse wasn't my address, merely a forwarding address where I could receive such documents as car insurance, DVLA documentation, TV licence, boat licence and all the other bits and bobs that kept me on the right side of the law.

[Alfie & Smartie]

I said I have no desire for an address and won't be forced to have one for a TV licence, so I'll take my chances

 

Good on you m8

[KevMc]

I know of no-one getting a driving licence for failing their test If he's given up, then why would he want one :wacko:

 

During the early 80s in Ireland there was such a long backlog of people waiting to resit their driving tests that they awarded full licences to anyone on their second provisional licence - you had to sit a test to get your second licence - so there were many people who got full licences for failing their test.

 

Of course the insurance companies soon changed their question from "Have you a full licence?" to "Have you passed a driving test?" and adjusted premiums accordingly

[Ex- Member]

Fair enough but you don't have to have an address, just somewhere TVLA can send your licence to.

 

The Stophouse wasn't my address, merely a forwarding address where I could receive such documents as car insurance, DVLA documentation, TV licence, boat licence and all the other bits and bobs that kept me on the right side of the law.

 

I spoke to them yesterday 39 minutes 5 different departments.

 

I was told they cannot issue a licence with out an address and VALID post code. They gave no other options than using friends family addresses. I was apologised to several times as they could not find a definitive answer. I cannot apparently use an address without the house holders consent either, so I can't just pick an address willy nilly.

 

I now wonder as they cannot issue a tv licence without an address that legally it has something to do with licencing the actual address and not the equipment. I believe that although it states everyone receiving a TV signal should have a licence, there is a loophole as there's no advice what so ever on receiving a signal without an address. Why can't I use a boat name and licence No. for instance?

 

So I'm happy not to pay and to test that when or if ever challenged when we eventually I get to the point of cc'ing with no address what so ever what will actually happen. Cheeky I know You see when the state hammers you at every opportunity, anywhere I feel I can fight back I will.

[carlt]

I believe that although it states everyone receiving a TV signal should have a licence, there is a loophole as there's no advice what so ever on receiving a signal without an address.

The email I have posted gives clear advice on how you can use a forwarding address.

 

I assume you have no driving licence, car insurance, boat insurance etc, all of which require an address to forward documents to.

[Guest]

It seems to come down to simply how hard people want to try to stay on the correct side of the law.

 

Personally I wouldn't be comfortable not having one as a CC'er now that I know it's eminently possible to have one, particularly as the the law is quite clear in that there is no specific exemption for boaters who live permanently aboard, it says you watch live TV? then you need one.

 

Strikes me anybody having problems getting one simply has to cite your email and it's contents.

[KevMc]

Thought I would have a look on the TV LIcencsing website and the first piece of information I come across is "What your TV licence covers" .... it says "It covers the installation and use of TV receivers at the premises specified on the licence." The key word here is premises which is defined elsewhere as a building. So if the licence specifies a premises then it cannot inter alia (?) apply to a boat which by definition cannot be a premises.

 

What we need to know is has anyone ever been prosecuted by the TV licensing people for not having a licence on a boat and what was the result of the case

[Guest]

Thought I would have a look on the TV LIcencsing website and the first piece of information I come across is "What your TV licence covers" .... it says "It covers the installation and use of TV receivers at the premises specified on the licence." The key word here is premises which is defined elsewhere as a building. So if the licence specifies a premises then it cannot inter alia (?) apply to a boat which by definition cannot be a premises.

 

Which is what Carl's email conforms, because it has the boat name on it hence that is the premises the TVLA were happy to be specified on the licence as a premises.

[bowten]

If the forwarding address as a tv licence,I am sure this covers you on the boat.

[Ex- Member]

Thought I would have a look on the TV LIcencsing website and the first piece of information I come across is "What your TV licence covers" .... it says "It covers the installation and use of TV receivers at the premises specified on the licence." The key word here is premises which is defined elsewhere as a building. So if the licence specifies a premises then it cannot inter alia (?) apply to a boat which by definition cannot be a premises.

 

What we need to know is has anyone ever been prosecuted by the TV licensing people for not having a licence on a boat and what was the result of the case

 

Precisely, a boat is clearly not a premises. There's also no mention of mobile receivers.

 

I'm suggesting when the law was created it was not taking into account those who have no address such as romanies. I'm sure they weren't queuing up to pay either

[KevMc]

Which is what Carl's email conforms, because it has the boat name on it hence that is the premises the TVLA were happy to be specified on the licence as a premises.

BUT a boat is NOT a premises - of course the TVLA will take your money if you force them to but the question is can they make you pay if the legislation isn't framed in such a way as to allow them to.

[carlt]

BUT a boat is NOT a premises - of course the TVLA will take your money if you force them to but the question is can they make you pay if the legislation isn't framed in such a way as to allow them to.

I didn't force anyone to take my money.

 

Legislation is framed in a way that enables you to pay so why not?

 

I have no objection to anyone saying "I don't want to pay so I won't." but to say they are not paying because it is too difficult, then be presented with a simple solution but refuse to acknowledge it, is somewhat different.

[Guest]

If the forwarding address as a tv licence,I am sure this covers you on the boat.

 

What the site actually says is this -

 

You don’t need a separate TV Licence for

 

Any device powered solely by its own internal batteries (i.e. it is not connected to an aerial or plugged into the mains). Your main home’s TV Licence will cover this.

Boats, touring caravans or vehicles as they’re already covered by your main home’s TV Licence.

Static caravans, mobile homes or moveable chalets. Your main home’s TV Licence will cover you provided you don’t watch TV in both homes at the same time. In this case you would need to complete a declaration form.

 

My red.

 

The problem is for somebody who lives aboard, their 'main home' is their boat and it is therefore not licensed. I suppose one argument you could put forward was that any address you use for mail forwarding such as a rellies is actually your main home and you are not actually living aboard but are in fact leisure boaters (this is why we don't need one for the boat).

 

BUT a boat is NOT a premises - of course the TVLA will take your money if you force them to but the question is can they make you pay if the legislation isn't framed in such a way as to allow them to.

 

I have no idea if they pursued this through the courts or not whether they would win a case, I am however clear what the law says regards my obligations to purchase a licence, I am (now) aware the means exist and personally I am not interested in becoming a test case either.

 

I will leave that to someone else.

[KevMc]

I didn't force anyone to take my money.

 

Legislation is framed in a way that enables you to pay so why not?

 

I have no objection to anyone saying "I don't want to pay so I won't." but to say they are not paying because it is too difficult, then be presented with a simple solution but refuse to acknowledge it, is somewhat different.

 

I gave up and went to the actual legislation and they phrase it carefully - you have to have a licence to watch TV, nothing about premises there. They can enter a premises or a vehicle if they suspect a TV is being used without a licence. Then later it says that for purpose of the act a vehicle includes a vessel.

 

The details of licencing itself are left to the BBC - if they are happy to provide a licence under a forwarding address then so be it... as the law is stated though it is still an offence to watch one without a licence.

[matty40s]

Perhaps we should all display our TV licences in the windows so Dave has something else to do once the paper boat licences have been withdrawn.

[Ex- Member]

Perhaps we should all display our TV licences in the windows so Dave has something else to do once the paper boat licences have been withdrawn.

 

:lol:

 

[eightpot]

I gave up and went to the actual legislation and they phrase it carefully - you have to have a licence to watch TV, nothing about premises there. They can enter a premises or a vehicle if they suspect a TV is being used without a licence. Then later it says that for purpose of the act a vehicle includes a vessel.

 

The details of licencing itself are left to the BBC - if they are happy to provide a licence under a forwarding address then so be it... as the law is stated though it is still an offence to watch one without a licence.

(My Bold)

 

No they can't, not immediately. TVL have to apply to a magistrate court to obtain a warrant to search the premises (TVL use the lassy database) so it might be a stretch for them to get a warrant together before the boat in question has cruised away. About the only way a boater is likely to get caught by TVL is if they walk down the towpath knocking on each boat in turn and getting the owner to sign a TVL178 form (self incriminating proforma). It is prudent to know that the TVL inpectors have as much legal power as a double glazing salesman (ironic since the TVL inspectors are employed by Capita) and cannot gain entry without the owners permission.

 

Oh yeah, and there has never been a conviction for licence evasion where "detector van" evidence has been used i.e., they don't exist. The usual way TVL secure a conviction is self incrimination, so if you have no contact with them, it is very highly unlikely you'll get done.

 

Me? I've been legally licence free for a good few years now and don't miss tv at all.

[Retro69]

Well that was very entertaining and interesting better than watching TV. Thanks everyone for taking part in that discussion

[David Mack]

20-odd years ago liveaboard friends of mine licenced their TV to "NB (boatname), Canals of the UK". That seemed to satisfy the Post Office counter clerk.

 

But they never did receive the renewal notice!

 

I guess the systems are more sophisticated now.

[eightpot]

 

I guess the systems are more sophisticated now.

 

A bloke from Capita, armed with a list of unlicensed premises and a 20 quid commission with every licence he sells.

 

That's progress.

Edited April 3, 2013 by eightpot