What would you be asking

[Halesowenmum]

Hi all

 

Am going to look at this boat on Sunday (assuming it doesn't snow excessively over the weekend!!):

 

http://www.longportbrokerage.co.uk/boatdetails.asp?id=572

 

This is with a view to it being a liveaboard vessel predominantly for me and the two kiddlies. It has an appropriate internal layout/no. of berths to suit us but I was interested on some general views on the spec, any comments from you much more experienced folk if there's say a massive downside to the way the vessel's set up that gives you the instant horrors and heebie jeebies! I'd certainly be looking to add a couple of solar panels more than likely.

 

Then I wondered what is the normal (if there is a normal) process/steps if you did decide you were going to proceed. Deposit takes it off the market but is refundable if you decide not to proceed???? Also interested as to your view on the price and whether you think there's a bit of room for negotiation (I'm certainly fully happy not to just pay the full amount - if I can negotiate it down, I certainly will!!!).

 

Just general thoughts really for me to consider and maybe raise some sensible questions when I do my first 'looking at a boat' at the weekend.

 

Thanks everyone.

[GUMPY]

.

Didnt look at details properly

Edited February 21, 2013 by idleness

[Halesowenmum]

Doh! Here's more detailed spec - apologies - a load of piccies are not much use!:

 

October is a 70ft semi trad narrowboat built in 2004 by Stenson Boat Builders. She benefits from nine berths comprising of one fixed double, one fixed single, two pairs of bunk beds and an L-shaped dinette which converts to a double. She has a Barrus Shire diesel engine, Electrolux 3.5kva generator, Sterling 2500w sinewave inverter, five leisure and one start battery, 12v and 240v electrics, Mikuni oil fired boiler to rads, Becton Bunny stove provides space heating, hot water by calorifier and immersion. Galley has free standing cooker, fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine. Bathroom has bath/shower, cassette toilet with spare, bowl hand basin.

 

Builder: Stenson Boat Builders

Make: Stenson

Model: 70 Semi Trad

Year constructed: 2004

Registration number: 510777

Guests: 5

Berths: 4

No. of engines: 1

Engine model: Barrus Shire

Engine power: 50 HP

Fuel type: Diesel

Length over all: 70'

Beam: 6' 10"

Hull material: Steel

[MtB]

I'd be asking myself 'where can I put a sofa, or something comfortable to lounge about on watching telly?'

 

That dinette seat looks bloody uncomfortable to sit on for extended periods of time.

 

MtB

[Paul C]

You can make your own conditions up on a deposit, for example "deposit subject to satisfactory survey" and then detail what you consider satisfactory or not, eg if it reveals safety defects over a certain amount of money, or welding, etc. The seller is perfectly at liberty to not accept your conditions though. Thrash something out once you're serious about a particular boat but before you commit money to the survey etc.

 

Generally if the survey is okay, there's no room for negotiation on final price after a deposit - you'd need to do that before paying one. After all, you might not get anywhere with the negotiation and decide its list price is too high, etc.

 

I doubt any serious seller would entertain refunding a deposit if you simply change your mind etc.

[Halesowenmum]

I'd be asking myself 'where can I put a sofa, or something comfortable to lounge about on watching telly?'

 

That dinette seat looks bloody uncomfortable to sit on for extended periods of time.

 

MtB

 

Do you know what, I TOTALLY agree with you . On the 'ideal layout' diagram I put together on PowerPoint (which ended up almost exactly how this boat is laid out), it does not have a hard seat like that but I've inserted a piccie taken from DFS of a lovely squishy sofa! That's exactly what I want to sink into at the end of a hard day at the office I can tell you. I've never liked a box with a pad on top - doesn't do it for me. Just have to find a sofa that's suitably squishy and comfy, but will fit through the door!!!

 

You can make your own conditions up on a deposit, for example "deposit subject to satisfactory survey" and then detail what you consider satisfactory or not, eg if it reveals safety defects over a certain amount of money, or welding, etc. The seller is perfectly at liberty to not accept your conditions though. Thrash something out once you're serious about a particular boat but before you commit money to the survey etc.

 

Generally if the survey is okay, there's no room for negotiation on final price after a deposit - you'd need to do that before paying one. After all, you might not get anywhere with the negotiation and decide its list price is too high, etc.

 

I doubt any serious seller would entertain refunding a deposit if you simply change your mind etc.

 

Much appreciated - a deposit with specifics attached sounds a darned good idea. Info much appreciated.

[David Mack]

Electrolux 3.5kva generator, Sterling 2500w sinewave inverter, five leisure and one start battery, 12v and 240v electrics,

 

hot water by calorifier and immersion.

 

fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine.

 

These are fine if the boat has a shoreline (mains) elecric connection. You can run the microwave and washing machine off the generator (which presumably runs from the main engine), but freezer and immersion heater are just not practical if you are not connected.

[Halesowenmum]

These are fine if the boat has a shoreline (mains) elecric connection. You can run the microwave and washing machine off the generator (which presumably runs from the main engine), but freezer and immersion heater are just not practical if you are not connected.

 

 

Solar panels to plug the gap????? Would that work? I was thinking it sounded a bit of a power reliant setup but that was just me guessing really based on the nuggets that have filtered down to me whilst reading through this site.

 

Also, if it had a back boiler it would say so wouldn't it??? I'd hoped to have one of those...

Edited February 21, 2013 by Halesowenmum

[pquinn]

i dont see how the layout diagram and the picture of the bathroom match up.how do you remove the cassette from the thetford with the bed in the way?

[sueb]

I would be asking where I am going to keep it? It looks a nice boat but will need a shoreline or you will struggle to keep the batteries topped up unless you work short hours. Good luck

[Halesowenmum]

Hi Pquinn

 

If I was able to insert some pics I'd be able to show you shots of each part of the interior going from one end to the other - but I can't get it work.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean actually??

 

I would be asking where I am going to keep it? It looks a nice boat but will need a shoreline or you will struggle to keep the batteries topped up unless you work short hours. Good luck

Hello sueB

 

I'm hoping for a residential mooring but certainly don't want to be sat running the generator all the time - hence looking at solar but not really understanding how much that could provide (I'm talking 1 or 2 of the residential size panels) and if this would be enough to run things on. Washing machine would do a max of three loads a week.

[LoneWolf]

It might be a good idea to go & look at some (lots) more boats before thinking about how much you want to pay for the first boat you go & see.

 

It will give you a better idea of realistic prices as well

 

Or have you been to see lots already? I dont recall you asking about any other boats

 

 

 

i note it's got a cassette (which is strange for a 9 berth boat) - Would you be happy with frequent emptyings?

[Paul C]

These are fine if the boat has a shoreline (mains) elecric connection. You can run the microwave and washing machine off the generator (which presumably runs from the main engine), but freezer and immersion heater are just not practical if you are not connected.

 

 

Solar panels to plug the gap????? Would that work? I was thinking it sounded a bit of a power reliant setup but that was just me guessing really based on the nuggets that have filtered down to me whilst reading through this site.

 

Also, if it had a back boiler it would say so wouldn't it??? I'd hoped to have one of those...

 

The freezer could work without shoreline, but I think you'd need a reasonable solar setup too, otherwise you'd be running the engine or a generator a while per week. But it would only be giving a useful amount of power in spring, summer and autumn, in the winter you'd need to run the engine more. Agreed that the immersion heater is pretty much useless without shoreline.

 

With 70 foot of boat, there's got to be opportunity for doing a significant solar panel installation, eg 400-500W or more.

 

Also, just had a good look at the boat and I get the impression there's not much space in it, but LOTS of furniture. For example the side unit in the saloon narrows what is already about 6 foot, to 5 foot. Boat has lots of berths but they're squeezed in so it would feel cramped inside? ? ?

[Halesowenmum]

It might be a good idea to go & look at some (lots) more boats before thinking about how much you want to pay for the first boat you go & see.

 

It will give you a better idea of realistic prices as well

 

Or have you been to see lots already? I dont recall you asking about any other boats

 

i note it's got a cassette (which is strange for a 9 berth boat) - Would you be happy with frequent emptyings?

 

No I haven't seen any others - this is the first one to visit. I'm asking about how a purchase would progress a. because I've not bought a boat before and b. because I will have to plan ahead carefully to be sure I have monies for deposits and want to be sure I have that planned out and available - or it will be a bit daft. At some point you have to look at your first boat, this is mine.

 

I'm certainly not ruling out looking at other boats at all. However, it must also be considered that because I need pretty much the layout this boat offers, from what I've seen, there are few with this layout actually!!! So it will be interesting to look at this one and see what I think of this in the flesh so to speak and may feel totally wrong the moment I see it/set foot on board.

 

No indeed, the frequent emptyings doesn't appeal - can anyone give me a rough cost of what it would cost to swap from the existing offer, to cassette????

[pquinn]

hello Hmum,what i mean is how do you remove the cassette from the toilet with the bed in the way.it seems awkward to me. this is not a criticism,i am just wondering.i am not so familiar with narrowboats as i am with cassette toilets.does the double bed fold up to make access easier?

[Halesowenmum]

The freezer could work without shoreline, but I think you'd need a reasonable solar setup too, otherwise you'd be running the engine or a generator a while per week. But it would only be giving a useful amount of power in spring, summer and autumn, in the winter you'd need to run the engine more. Agreed that the immersion heater is pretty much useless without shoreline.

 

With 70 foot of boat, there's got to be opportunity for doing a significant solar panel installation, eg 400-500W or more.

 

Also, just had a good look at the boat and I get the impression there's not much space in it, but LOTS of furniture. For example the side unit in the saloon narrows what is already about 6 foot, to 5 foot. Boat has lots of berths but they're squeezed in so it would feel cramped inside? ? ?

 

The 40-500w you state, would that be a couple of residential size solar panels???? I did think the roof space would be crying out to be put to a useful task like this.

 

Do you mean the boxed in floor cupboard thingy??? I agree with that and also that I don't especially like the built in seating with table either. As to the bunks and so on, as I'm looking at it it looks ok - guess I'll only really feel if it's a cramped up mess when I get in there and have a look. I will only need two lots of berths over and above the double - enough for me and two kids - I don't need any more permanent or temporary beds than this to be honest.

 

hello Hmum,what i mean is how do you remove the cassette from the toilet with the bed in the way.it seems awkward to me. this is not a criticism,i am just wondering.i am not so familiar with narrowboats as i am with cassette toilets.does the double bed fold up to make access easier?

 

 

Ahh, you're imagining me stumbling and tripping through the cabin and pouring poop on me bed!!! No I don't know - good point and I shall imagine this scenario and figure out whether it could work easily or not!

 

I find the internal layout, generally, precisely what I would want, but the set up that is reliant on shorepower (even though I intend to be on a mooring most of the time) or running the generator is not ideal. What probably makes me most happiest is that I've figured this out myself - and you're all kindly raising things that I thought of myself (eg it would do with a dose of solar panels). So that's good - you see, without even knowing it I've already learnt loads on here!!!

 

There are definitely lots more options of boats to look at but I'm interested to see this one anyway - gotta start somewhere!!

[Stormbringer]

i dont see how the layout diagram and the picture of the bathroom match up.how do you remove the cassette from the thetford with the bed in the way?

 

Possibly like mine...into the under bed cupboard !!

Not ideal but ok once you get the hang of it. Handy for storing the 'ready to go in' spare cassette tho'.....

 

Andy :-)

[Halesowenmum]

Hey, my gran never had an inside loo or bathroom her entire life. The chamber pot was good enough for her lol!!! This possibly isn't much different!!!

[sueb]

Do look at storage. I find most boats haven't got enough

[Tuscan]

I seem recall you had two near teenage children (apologies may have this completely wrong) so without a bedroom each for them I would not be interested.

[Catrin]

I don't really understand why you are looking at a boat with so many berths for just 3 of you. Why does it have so many berths, what is it's history? Those berths will not be easy to take out without messing up the inside of the boat, and what you need is storage, not berths.

 

Our much older boat (1995), with a very basic fit out, had two bunks in a "children's bedroom", that we finally decided to get rid of to make a more useful space, and additional storage. You can see the changes that we made just over 3 years ago - HERE. The original bunks are further down the thread, in this post - HERE.

 

You can also see the damage to the panelling where the bunks came out, which we have managed to disguise to some extent - but will always be there. The panelling changes colour over the years - anything that is hidden from light and air will remain the original colour.

[AndrewIC]

i dont see how the layout diagram and the picture of the bathroom match up.how do you remove the cassette from the thetford with the bed in the way?

 

I agree the photo doesn't match the diagram, but that said on my boat the hatch for removing the cassette is under a bed (with a large hatch in cront of the bed). It's doable, but I didn't build it and I wouldn't recommend it!

[arbutus]

The body of the cassette toilet is up against the corridor partition. The cassette will almost certainly be removed via a small door by someone standing in the corridor. I have this arrangement on my boat and it works well. On my (holidays only) boat the cassette needs emptying at least every two days, with two people using it. Or you could have a number of cassettes and empty them all in one go, once a week.

[keble]

I'd be asking myself 'where can I put a sofa, or something comfortable to lounge about on watching telly?'

 

That dinette seat looks bloody uncomfortable to sit on for extended periods of time.

 

MtB

Gotta agree with that. We ripped ours out after a few years and got a fantastic sofa from Elite (they do them specially for boats)

[Halesowenmum]

I don't really understand why you are looking at a boat with so many berths for just 3 of you. Why does it have so many berths, what is it's history? Those berths will not be easy to take out without messing up the inside of the boat, and what you need is storage, not berths.

 

You can also see the damage to the panelling where the bunks came out, which we have managed to disguise to some extent - but will always be there. The panelling changes colour over the years - anything that is hidden from light and air will remain the original colour.

 

Hi and thanks for giving all of this brilliant information.

 

You ask about why so many berths. First of all two can be instantly discounted because when I got rid of the highly uncomfortable built in seating and table combo and replaced it with a comfy sofa, that would be down to 7. Then we have two sets of bunks (four sleep spaces in total)- which would likely have the two top bunks used for sleeping and with virtually no works required at all, the bottoms used for storage. Then the next room is a single which could be taken out and shelves/storage put in and cupboard doors on front (thus any damage or discoloration is not going to be seen). So, with fairly minimal work we would end up with three spaces to sleep (one a dbl for me) and gain one storage area so I think it could possibly work - maybe. Anyway it's only the first one to look at and there's plenty more out there as well as this one.

 

Thanks for all the pictures of the works you did - very interesting to look at thank you.