HS2 Northern Routes

[Tim Lewis]

The BBC report on the proposed Northern HS2 Routes show a picture of a viaduct over a lock:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21221828

 

Can't find a detailed map, how many crossings are there likely to be?

 

Tim

Edited January 28, 2013 by Tim Lewis

[the grinch]

Tim if you click on the link in your link this takes you to the detailed maps PDF flles

think the main controversial ones are the 2 at Wood End on the T&M where the route crosses and then recrosses the canal in a very short distance.

[Athy]

 

Can't find a detailed map, how many crossings are there likely to be?

None whatsoever, I sincerely hope, because I fervently wish that the damned thing never gets built - and I speak as a lifelong gricer, whoops, railway enthusiast.

Efficient use of and improvement of the existing lines and stations is the way to upgrade services - as was done on the main line out of Euston when it was electrified some years ago.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Athy

[Chop!]

None whatsoever, I sincerely hope, because I fervently wish that the damned thing never gets built - and I speak as a lifelong gricer, whoops, railway enthusiast.

Efficient use of and improvement of the existing lines and stations is the way to upgrade services - as was done on the main line out of Euston when it was electrified some years ago.

And, as usual, it will be of most benefit to London, Brum etc. While many parts of 'UK' have no public transport at all.

I know, instead of re-opening all these formerly closed canals, let's electrify the Grand Union!

[Québec]

Can't find a detailed map, how many crossings are there likely to be?

 

Tim

 

Detailed route maps here:

 

West Midlands to Manchester

 

West Midland to Leeds

[Guest]

The BBC report on the proposed Northern HS2 Routes show a picture of a viaduct over a lock:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21221828

 

Can't find a detailed map, how many crossings are there likely to be?

 

Tim

 

 

That particular picture is taken to be a 'simulation' of what it will look like where it crosses the T&M at Wood End just North of the lock - and doesn't actually relate to the section being announced today - they have just re-used the picture.

 

It will be worth looking at the detailed maps of the Northern sections to see which sections of the system could be blighted by this. Wood End is a lovely quiet spot and the first section will certainly blight it.

 

A quick scan shows several more river and canal crossings including more on the T&M and the river Soar near Kegworth. It also cuts right across the runway of East Midlands Airport which I presume means they are going to tunnel under it....or put in a very good level crossing..........

Edited January 28, 2013 by The Dog House

[AndrewIC]

Link to maps

 

Not good for the northern T&M or the SUC Middlewich Branch either: T&M crossing between Whatcroft and Croxton on a viaduct ("max speed 400km/h") (and I reckon pretty much directly over one of my favourite mooring spots!), Middlewich Branch crossing between Stanthorne Lock and the existing WCML.

 

Oh, and a Bridgewater crossing at Agden Bridge between Lymm and Dunham.

 

(Not looked further South at Stoke area yet)

Edited January 28, 2013 by AndrewIC

[cheshire~rose]

It is going to be running very close to The route of Chesterfield Canal between Staveley & Killamarsh. There will be a station at Killamarsh too.

 

As this stretch of canal is the next section the Chesterfield Canal Trust are hoping to get back into a navigable state (all the plans are drawn up and all the research has been done) I suspect this news will be causing a massive headache for certain people closely involved with The Trust.

 

My hope is that (as can happen with any large civial engineering project) efficient consultation will mean that the bits of the canal route that are affected get the regenerated as part of the building of the railway line. The regeneration of a former open cast mine workings in Staveley was carried out with a good deal of sympathetic consideration to the canal and hence there is now a lovely basin there. Perhaps a similar thing can happen at Killamarsh? I sincerely hope so

 

This link is to the map of the area which will affect The Chesterfield Canal: Map

[Chop!]

It also cuts right across the runway of East Midlands Airport which I presume means they are going to tunnel under it....or put in a very good level crossing..........

 

Apparently East Midlands Airport were never consulted regarding the digging of a tunnel under their runways.

[Québec]

The arguments have been rehearsed in other threads (but I can't find them), but for those interested in the arguments around HS2, here's an interesting (and vested interest!!) piece of comparative research into the benefits of high speed rail in various countries. While it obviously focuses on the benefits - well it would, wouldn't it - it doesn't avoid the challenges.

 

http://www.invensysrail.com/whitepapers/hsh-research-report.pdf

[Athy]

Not good for the northern T&M or the SUC Middlewich Branch either: T&M crossing between Whatcroft and Croxton on a viaduct ("max speed 400km/h")

They won't cause a nuisance for very long, then.

[Guest]

The arguments have been rehearsed in other threads (but I can't find them), but for those interested in the arguments around HS2, here's an interesting (and vested interest!!) piece of comparative research into the benefits of high speed rail in various countries. While it obviously focuses on the benefits - well it would, wouldn't it - it doesn't avoid the challenges.

 

http://www.invensysrail.com/whitepapers/hsh-research-report.pdf

 

 

The previous threads are here -

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43854&st=0

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=38315&st=0

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35088&st=0

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33945&st=0

[Guest]

Had more time to look at this now and found an interesting bit on the DOT website.

 

This bit as it comes into Leeds passes quite close to Lemonroyd Marina (where we used to moor) and crosses the Aire & Calder Navigation turning towards Leeds to run right next to the Navigation as it passes by Woodlesford potentially spoiling the piece and quiet of a very nice mooring spot. It's actually running between the River Aire and the canalised bit at that point and will be very close.

 

I bet the owners of the new houses just built in the last couple of years near Woodlesford lock are not going to be too chuffed. The existing railway it's planned to passover is already on an embankment so the visual impact of a viaduct to cross that is I reckon going to be considerable.

 

 

It also passes over the Aire and Calder Navigation and the River Calder between Kings Road Lock and Birkwood Lock - another nice section.

 

Edited January 28, 2013 by The Dog House

[cheshire~rose]

There is a lot of discussion among members of The Chesterfield Canal Trust about how this will affect the corridor of the canal. the route follows The Penine Trail very closely through the Killamarsh and Renishaw areas and it appears to cross the propoded route of The Chesterfield Canal in several places.

 

The route to the proposed maintenance yard will be right next to the new basin at Staveley. In future we wonder whether the delightful little (brand new) coffee shop at Hollingwood will be serving up bacon butties for the workers at the maintenance yard instead of canal users?

 

 

 

off topic?

Martin? How do you get a print screen onto the forum?

[Guest]

off topic?

Martin? How do you get a print screen onto the forum?

 

Shift+printscreen which saves the screen capture to the clipboard.

 

Open 'Paint'

 

Select paste - which pastes the screen capture into 'Paint'

 

Save the image on your PC

 

Upload the saved image to Photobucket.

 

Link to forum in the same way as you do for any image hosted on Photobucket.

 

 

 

Is how I do it - there may be a slicker way.

[Guest]

Also off topic - for a sec.

 

I was thinking about the residents and land owners affected by this - do they get any sort of prior notification of the route before it's published like this?

 

Or do they just suddenly see that a massive twin single track viaduct like the one proposed for near Woodlesford is possibly going to appear at the bottom of the garden with high speed trains rushing potentially running just yards from their homes.

 

Or they see the track running directly through their farm and farm house living room.

 

Or is this the first they will be aware of it?

 

How does that bit work???

[Machpoint005]

Am I the only one who has spotted the irony here? An eighteenth-century transport revolution has been turned in 200 years or so into a linear park. A 21st-century transport revolution 'threatens' it by building bridges over it, which every so often will have a train whooshing across. These are high-speed trains which will take a matter of seconds to pass a given point: all the rest of the time, the place will be quiet. Interrupted only by the chug of diesel engines, of course.

 

I really can't see a problem. There are dozens of miles of canal with mainline railways alongside them.

[gbmud]

 

I really can't see a problem. There are dozens of miles of canal with mainline railways alongside them.

 

 

Have you ever heard the TGV passing close by in France? It sounds like the end of the world coming, though it does only last for a few seconds, it is EXTREMELY NOISY!

 

Chris

Edited January 28, 2013 by gbmud

[Machpoint005]

...only a few seconds...

[Nightwatch]

There are 32 billion (ish!) problems that I can see.

 

Which then begs the question, why?

 

Martyn

[Guest]

Am I the only one who has spotted the irony here? An eighteenth-century transport revolution has been turned in 200 years or so into a linear park. A 21st-century transport revolution 'threatens' it by building bridges over it, which every so often will have a train whooshing across. These are high-speed trains which will take a matter of seconds to pass a given point: all the rest of the time, the place will be quiet. Interrupted only by the chug of diesel engines, of course.

 

I really can't see a problem. There are dozens of miles of canal with mainline railways alongside them.

 

The original post asked about where the proposed route passes over canals - A few of us have taken the time to do a bit of research and answer the question and yes in doing so have commented on the potential impact on the areas where they cross - which is not only in terms of the audible impact but also the visual impact on already nice countryside.

 

Personalty I don't think for one second the DOT would take any objections from boaters about the possible affects on their hobby (they might consider objections from residential boaters - I don'y know though).

 

We are having a discussion -

 

Lastly I am a bit of a train anorak and much to the dismay of the first mate will often seek out locations to moor near a main line.

 

One example - the Dog House moored just North of Newark-on-Trent next to the East Coast Mail Line.

 

 

 

whatever you claim though the noise is disruptive especially at 5 am. and lets not forget they are not always running flat out.

 

TGV-

 

 

By way of illustration of the visual impact - below is an aerial picture of Woodlesford - somewhere I refereed to above. It currently is an exceptionally quiet place to moor. I have (using the DOT plans) overlain in red the proposed route - where it splits in two is where it is two high viaducts that need to be constructed to carry HS2 over an existing railway - an infrequent passenger line into Leeds.

 

 

I cannot imagine how such a thing could be constructed without it having a major visual impact on that spot. And look at the proximity to the navigation and the moored boats top left - a very nice mooring spot set to be totally ruined. The opposite bank BTW are LTM's so I guess they aint' going to be too chuffed either nor of course the nearby housing some of which has only just been constructed.

Edited January 28, 2013 by The Dog House

[furnessvale]

There are 32 billion (ish!) problems that I can see.

 

Which then begs the question, why?

 

Martyn

 

The demand for transport seems to rise inexorably.

 

If they don't build more railway capacity they will have to build more road (ie motorway) capacity.

 

I know which I prefer.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[jelunga]

Better to invest in silent teleport systems.

[cheshire~rose]

Where there is already a canal there will be provision made to ensure the navigation remains navigable. I think the thing that concerns me is that the area which is heavily affected around Staveley, Renishaw and Killamarsh areas there is not at present a navigable canal and so, without proper consultation, the development of HS2 can be allowed to run right through the area where The Chesterfield Canal Trust has detailed plans of the restored canal.

 

On the other hand, the amount of money that will be piled into this project, if The Trust can get the developers on their side it could mean that a number of big bits of the infrastructure needed for the route of the canal will be paid for by them instead of by The Trust keep asking for people like the members of this forum to buy a brick.

 

It has also been suggested by one of the Trustees that we could offer "Derbyshire Cruises" to day trippers from London .... 60 minutes on the train from London, 6 hours peacefully gliding through the countryside of The Chesterfield Canal then 60 minutes back to London in time for tea!

[Machpoint005]

A few of us have taken the time to do a bit of research and answer the question

I did have a look at the plans before posting, but whether I did or not, my point was about the irony.