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Don't call it a Barge

Ray T

By Ray T
in General Boating

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Chris Pink Veteran II

Chris Pink

Posted
Posted

Well passing lightly over the fact that he's wrong, a narrow boat is a type of barge.

 

this boat;

 

LR%20Jacqueline.jpg

 

JACQUELINE Built by COLE CRAFT ENG. LTD - Length 6.7 metres (22 feet ) - Beam 1.97 metres (6 feet 6 inches ) - Draft 0.61 metres (2 feet ) Wooden hull, power of 15 BHP. Registered with British Waterways number 66604 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 29-May-2011.

 

(cole craft - is this possible?)

 

I would be interested in tracing if anyone knows of it.

 

For, i might add, innocent purposes.

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BargeeSpud Rising Star

BargeeSpud

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well passing lightly over the fact that he's wrong, a narrow boat is a type of barge.

The Canalscape article is intrinsically correct. A narrowboat is a specific type of craft. A barge is a generic term given to any freight carrying water craft.

 

My boat is a narrowboat, it doesn't carry freight so it cannot be described, in any shape or form, as a barge.

Edited by Spuds
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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted

A narrowboat is a specific type of craft. A barge is a generic term given to any freight carrying water craft.

 

My boat is a narrowboat, it doesn't carry freight so it cannot be described, in any shape or form, as a barge.

A narrowboat is a specific type of craft based closely on a narrow boat, a specific type of barge.

 

Your boat is as much a barge as a fake Dutch Barge.

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STUBAG Collaborator

STUBAG

Posted
Posted

Well passing lightly over the fact that he's wrong, a narrow boat is a type of barge.

 

this boat;

 

LR%20Jacqueline.jpg

 

JACQUELINE Built by COLE CRAFT ENG. LTD - Length 6.7 metres (22 feet ) - Beam 1.97 metres (6 feet 6 inches ) - Draft 0.61 metres (2 feet ) Wooden hull, power of 15 BHP. Registered with British Waterways number 66604 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 29-May-2011.

 

(cole craft - is this possible?)

 

I would be interested in tracing if anyone knows of it.

 

For, i might add, innocent purposes.

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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted

Well passing lightly over the fact that he's wrong, a narrow boat is a type of barge.

 

this boat;

 

LR%20Jacqueline.jpg

 

JACQUELINE Built by COLE CRAFT ENG. LTD - Length 6.7 metres (22 feet ) - Beam 1.97 metres (6 feet 6 inches ) - Draft 0.61 metres (2 feet ) Wooden hull, power of 15 BHP. Registered with British Waterways number 66604 as a Powered. Last registration recorded on 29-May-2011.

 

(cole craft - is this possible?)

 

I would be interested in tracing if anyone knows of it.

 

For, i might add, innocent purposes.

 

I know it and its owner quite well.

From what I remember it used to carry a sail, but can check.

No connection with the cole craft narrowboat builders, or at least highly unlikely.

 

Tim

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Chris Pink Veteran II

Chris Pink

Posted
Posted

Not a lifeboat, a Lloyd's registered (1933) gentleman's launch by Smith Brothers of Goole.

 

The wheelhouse is a bit of a bastard addition. The dog house may be original (mahogany) but the rear of it is recent - it would have been until relatively recently open like Jacqueline.

 

The plank above the top rubbing strip is one piece of mahogany, a magnificent bit of wood that deserves varnish at some stage. It is that made the comparison for me.

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted

Well OK, I know I'm being picky but.....

 

A narrowboat, as its name suggests is narrow, having a beam (width) of 6 foot 10 inches to 7 feet.

 

So that rules out a huge number of what I always thought were narrow boats, (including my own one), built to a width that was a bit more than 7 feet then?

 

And shouldn't it be "narrow boat", not "narrowboat", if we are going to be histoically accurate?

 

Canal barges are between 60 and 70 feet in length depending on the canal they were built for. However, they are at least 14 feet 6 inches beam

 

Which will come as a surprise to people who have easily "posted" their barges throgh nominally 14 feet wide locks and bridges, with plenty width to spare.

 

It then posts a picture of an L&L Short Boat as a genuine example of a barge. So are they all 14' 6" beam or more then?

 

A classic example of an article that seeks to correct misunderstanding, but replaces it all with a whole new dollop of misunderstanding!

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Pluto Veteran

PlutoDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

As I have mentioned before, in boatyards on the L&LC, the boatbuilders considered a barge to have a moulded width of more than fourteen feet, and anything less was a boat. Moulded width is measured over the outside of the frames before the planking or outer skin is fitted.

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BargeeSpud Rising Star

BargeeSpud

Posted
Posted

A narrowboat is a specific type of craft based closely on a narrow boat, a specific type of barge.

Au contraire. A narrow boat never has been a barge, let alone a specific "type" of barge. It has always been a narrow boat from the moment the concept of the design was first devised.

 

If I'm wrong & someone can provide a reference that proves it & I'll be happy to concede the point. In the meantime, for me, the correct term will always be "Narrowboat" or more accurately, "Narrow Boat".

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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted (edited)

The plank above the top rubbing strip is one piece of mahogany, a magnificent bit of wood that deserves varnish at some stage. It is that made the comparison for me.

That would stop people (like me) assuming that it's a plywood addition to a carvel lifeboat. :blush:

 

Au contraire. A narrow boat never has been a barge, let alone a specific "type" of barge. It has always been a narrow boat from the moment the concept of the design was first devised.

 

The concept of a flat bottomed carrying vessel you mean?...Just like a barge?

 

A narrow boat is quite simply a flat bottomed carrying boat designed for a specific sized canal, just like so many other barges of varying dimensions.

 

It has no special design features that differentiate it from other barges.

 

As I have mentioned before, in boatyards on the L&LC, the boatbuilders considered a barge to have a moulded width of more than fourteen feet, and anything less was a boat. Moulded width is measured over the outside of the frames before the planking or outer skin is fitted.

That may be so on the L&LC but not everywhere.

 

It would certainly disqualify several Thames Barges.

Edited by carlt
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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted

Not a lifeboat, a Lloyd's registered (1933) gentleman's launch by Smith Brothers of Goole.

 

The wheelhouse is a bit of a bastard addition. The dog house may be original (mahogany) but the rear of it is recent - it would have been until relatively recently open like Jacqueline.

 

The plank above the top rubbing strip is one piece of mahogany, a magnificent bit of wood that deserves varnish at some stage. It is that made the comparison for me.

 

Some at least of the cabin work on Jaqueline is a later addition.

 

Can't remember what I was told of it's history, except that I believe it was salvaged by the present owner's father from a derelict condition.

 

I can find out more in due course.

 

Tim

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Chris Pink Veteran II

Chris Pink

Posted
Posted (edited)

Au contraire. A narrow boat never has been a barge, let alone a specific "type" of barge. It has always been a narrow boat from the moment the concept of the design was first devised.

 

If I'm wrong & someone can provide a reference that proves it & I'll be happy to concede the point. In the meantime, for me, the correct term will always be "Narrowboat" or more accurately, "Narrow Boat".

 

The first iron boat is attributed to J. Wilkinson of Bradley Forge and all early references refer to his boat as a 'barge' as it was intended to join the Severn barge trade.. It was 6' 8" wide. The size was governed by the size of iron plate that was possible at the time.

 

Most people who refer to their own boat refer to them as 'boat' but the generic term for a narrow boat is a barge. Ie an unpowered flat bottom boat used for the carriage of goods. A barge is, of course, a type of boat.

 

That usage has come to refer to narrow-beam barges as narrow boats makes no difference to this.

 

I don't actually care whether you 'concede' the point, those are the facts.

Edited by Chris Pink
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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted

If you asked the steerer of a narrow joey boat or station boat around the BCN what type of craft he was on, he'd have apparently called it a barge.

..... Although others report they were simply known as "boats" more often than anything else, and generally given no other name?

 

Where people are captured aboard narrow boats in the censuses every 10 years from 1841 to 1911, the boats probably get referred to as "barges" more than any other description, but I concede that those recording them were probably not experts in correct nomenclature for canal and river craft.

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