1.8 Out of Fuel

[Flocal]

Ive managed to run out of diesel !

Checked tank and there is fuel in there but the dipper indicates its empty.

Once ive put fuel in the tsnkk whats the next step?

Please bear in mind i am a complete numpty when it comes to engines. All i know is i got to bleed it somehow. Im due a fuel filter change, would this be enough to bleed it?

[Ray T]

Mrsmelly will be able to give you good advice!

[Chris Pink]

http://www.finestboat.co.uk/manuals/BMC/Workshop%20Manual%201.8.pdf

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3baIfQgGcyAC

[ditchcrawler]

http://www.finestboat.co.uk/manuals/BMC/Workshop%20Manual%201.8.pdf

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=3baIfQgGcyAC

I would also suggest you visit Tony's pages at http://www.tb-training.co.uk/13bfuel.htm#bmn50

[Tony Brooks]

Ive managed to run out of diesel !

Checked tank and there is fuel in there but the dipper indicates its empty.

Once ive put fuel in the tsnkk whats the next step?

Please bear in mind i am a complete numpty when it comes to engines. All i know is i got to bleed it somehow. Im due a fuel filter change, would this be enough to bleed it?

 

 

By all means change the filter because it will not make much difference to the job as you have run out of fuel. I would also check the strainer that may or may not be under the domed lift pump lid. While you are at it locate the hand [priming lever on the lift pump. If it has a wire pulling eye fitted thread a long piece of heavy string/light rope through it so you can operate it without scrabbling down the side of the engine.

 

 

Make sure all the rubber seals are in good condition but I would not change any. If you do not have a spin on fuel filter (if you do remember to oil the seal before refitting) make sure the centre bolt has a good soft washer on it even if it also has an O ring around it. Apart from that do not try to change any seals this first time.

 

The filter should have a largish hexagon on top that may or may not be fixing the leak off pipe banjo. loosen this and pump the lift pump lever many, many times until air bubble free fuel flows out. Then tighten it.

 

Now the injector pump. Look on the side of the aluminium cylindrical body section and locate the 8mm AF bleed screw (ignore the one on the turret/top of the pump if you possibly can). Loosen it and continue with the lift pump but this time keep pumping for at least 30 seconds after you think you have air free fuel coming out. Tighten the screw.

 

Now loosen all the injector main union nuts (5/8 AF?) a turn and spin the engine on the starter until fuel drips from all the unions. Tighten them and it should now start. If no fuel will drip out starts again but this time try the 8mm screw on the top of the pump after you have done the one on the body.

 

If the engine stops simply by turning the key off (which I doubt) turn it on before attempting to bleed the pump body.

 

If the filter is a spin on one fill it with CLEAN fuel before refitting it, less pumping will be required.

[ditchcrawler]

Have a look at this thread to see the bleed point on the filters

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=52095&st=0&p=975648&hl=banjo&fromsearch=1entry975648

[Flocal]

Tony Brooks.....do i need to go thru all that because i have run out of fuel??

Like i say i am a pure novice and dont know my lift pump from my injector pump.

Usually when someone has changed the fuel filter, they loosen of a nut on the injectors until fuel seeps out, then tighten one by one. Will this not or do?

Or because i have ran out of fuel i need to delve deeper into my engine :/

[RLWP]

Tony Brooks.....do i need to go thru all that because i have run out of fuel??

Like i say i am a pure novice and dont know my lift pump from my injector pump.

Usually when someone has changed the fuel filter, they loosen of a nut on the injectors until fuel seeps out, then tighten one by one. Will this not or do?

Or because i have ran out of fuel i need to delve deeper into my engine :/

 

You need to do the lot - the engine stopped when air started to come out of the injectors

 

Richard

[Tony Brooks]

Tony Brooks.....do i need to go thru all that because i have run out of fuel??

Like i say i am a pure novice and dont know my lift pump from my injector pump.

Usually when someone has changed the fuel filter, they loosen of a nut on the injectors until fuel seeps out, then tighten one by one. Will this not or do?

Or because i have ran out of fuel i need to delve deeper into my engine :/

 

 

 

If they do as you suggest on any engine with a DPA injector pump (and almost any older CAV/Sims injector pump they are not competent to be doing the job. The start battery is at risk - and possibly the stater motor!

 

Modern Jap based diesels (and may be others) are pretty much self bleeding, especially those with electric lift pumps that can be turned on and left to run a while without starting the engine. Those with mechanical pumps will self-bleed as long as you have a well charged battery. THIS IN NOT THE CASE with older designs.

 

By all means try it, you may get lucky.

 

Note to self - give up wasting time trying to help people who think it is acceptable to suggest my advice is suspect.

 

May I also suggest that you ignore my advice about avoiding bleeding via the point on the turret between the throttle and stop lever, with a bit of luck you will mess up the idle stabilisation setting or the idle stabilisation damper will come clean out of the top of the pump as so many have done before.

 

I really do know why Gibbo got so impatient at times.

[Albion]

If they do as you suggest on any engine with a DPA injector pump (and almost any older CAV/Sims injector pump they are not competent to be doing the job. The start battery is at risk - and possibly the stater motor!

 

Modern Jap based diesels (and may be others) are pretty much self bleeding, especially those with electric lift pumps that can be turned on and left to run a while without starting the engine. Those with mechanical pumps will self-bleed as long as you have a well charged battery. THIS IN NOT THE CASE with older designs.

 

By all means try it, you may get lucky.

 

Note to self - give up wasting time trying to help people who think it is acceptable to suggest my advice is suspect.

 

May I also suggest that you ignore my advice about avoiding bleeding via the point on the turret between the throttle and stop lever, with a bit of luck you will mess up the idle stabilisation setting or the idle stabilisation damper will come clean out of the top of the pump as so many have done before.

 

I really do know why Gibbo got so impatient at times.

I would like to reinforce this advice from Tony. Do the job methodically and carefully. What is the point of trying to cut corners? You will also learn things at the same time. Tony also makes a good point about the atarter motor. IIRC a starter is only meant to be used continuously for about 20 secs or so and then given a period to cool down. In the heat of the moment when trying to get an engine bled and then started it is almost inevitable that the starter will be keyed for longer than ideal. Patience will get the job done properly, impatience risks a flat starter battery at best, or burnt out starter at worst.

Roger

Edited to add that IIRC the lift pump on that engine had, when I built it, a hand lever (wire loop) that you could use to prime the first part of the circuit without turning over the engine. If it doesn't seem to be doing anything it might be because the lift pump operating lever is on the wrong part of the cam. Turn the engine over a bit by hand and then try again.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Albion

[alan_fincher]

Also......

 

Some people mistake the small amount of easy movement that is naturally possible in the pumping lever of some of these lift pumps as actually pumping, when in fact to pump usually takes a firm hand, and perhaps much more force than an inexperienced person might imagine.

 

I though I was long since cleverer than making this mistake, but recently believed I had a problem on the lift pump on Sickle's Lister HA, until I reminded myself just how much of a shove some of them need to actually be pumping.

 

If you try and get a BMC that has enough air in it to bleed just by cracking injetors, and not following the laid down procedures, I'd say a flat starter battery is almost inevitable, (provided the starter motor survives long enough to flatten it).

[Flocal]

Cheers for ure help guys..

Problem solved and everything is fine!

[jake_crew]

Flocal,

 

please tell what you did to solve the problem.

 

We'd all like to learn from your experience.

 

Edited November 24, 2012 by jake_crew

[Flocal]

Gave my boat mechanic a ring and paid him to do it

[Pykebird]

Fairplay flocal!

[Flocal]

Didnt want to attempt it myself, the advice given here was pretty much spot on but with that comes the confidence to 'have a go' which i lack somewhat when it comes to the heart of my boat and something going wrong!

It took him a hour and it was worth him coming out to hear the words ' thats probably the sweetest sounding BMC ive ever heard on a narrow boat'!!

 

You did a good job Albion

[Albion]

Didnt want to attempt it myself, the advice given here was pretty much spot on but with that comes the confidence to 'have a go' which i lack somewhat when it comes to the heart of my boat and something going wrong!

It took him a hour and it was worth him coming out to hear the words ' thats probably the sweetest sounding BMC ive ever heard on a narrow boat'!!

 

You did a good job Albion

Flattery will get you everywhere but I was once told that during my ownership too. How many hours has it done now?

Roger

[Flocal]

I dont think the hour counter is accurate but i will check tonight.