IWA in the CART

[Midnight]

If the IWA and CART are now formally connected by the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding at CART's first public meeting doesn't that mean there are no longer any independent Trust members.

 

Therefore can we now look forward to electing another four albeit truly independent this time?

[tafelberg]

Very interesting point.

 

Is it now CARTIWA or IWACART or perhaps CAR WAIT

[KevMc]

I've just read the memorandum - what a load of baloney it is - basically it says they both want to help the waterways and they will try to work together - no substance at all.

 

There is a sop to boaters by recognising that we "provide colour" to events that they might be organising - nice to know we are so highly regarded

[larkshall]

If this connection between cart and iwa IS true, then yes we need an independent representative. Especially as the IWA seems to 'have it in' for one group of boaters (CCers). I am not a ccer, but I think we all need to rally together and protest loudly.

[tafelberg]

I've just read the memorandum - what a load of baloney it is - basically it says they both want to help the waterways and they will try to work together - no substance at all.

 

There is a sop to boaters by recognising that we "provide colour" to events that they might be organising - nice to know we are so highly regarded

 

"Provide Colour", are they normally only in black and white?

[KevMc]

If this connection between cart and iwa IS true, then yes we need an independent representative. Especially as the IWA seems to 'have it in' for one group of boaters (CCers). I am not a ccer, but I think we all need to rally together and protest loudly.

Maybe we should all join the IWA and get them to support CCers

[cotswoldsman]

If the IWA and CART are now formally connected by the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding at CART's first public meeting doesn't that mean there are no longer any independent Trust members.

 

Therefore can we now look forward to electing another four albeit truly independent this time?

 

Not sure there are any IWA members who are Trustees do you mean the CaRT Council

Edited September 28, 2012 by cotswoldsman

[Starcoaster]

'Provide colour' my freaking lord, so nice to know we're that important in the greater scheme of the waterways.

 

I'm also concerned by what I see as the IWA's total disinterest in or even active distain for liveaboard boaters, and I think that they will do what they can (or have already started to) to eventually affect public opinion or the opinion of their members to the point that they will actively lobby for policies designed to discourage, out right ban or make it as hard as possible if not impossible for people to CC genuinely or to live on their boat unless they have a designated residential marina mooring.

 

Their 'mission' mentions "To encourage the fullest use of the inland waterways for recreation and commerce in so far as that is commensurate with their preservation, the maintenance and improvement of their historic and natural environment and the enjoyment of others." notably leaving out the large demographic of those of us who live on our boats.

Whether this ommision was accidental (although I strongly suspect it was not) or deliberate, it concerns me that there are no (what I consdier to be)independent or non IWA promoted boater reps on CART, nor anyone on the council who has a vested intereset in listening to the issues of the significant number of us who are liveaboard boaters.

 

If I have got the wrong end of the stick with any of this, I am sure (and indeed I hope) that someone will be along shortly to put me right and point me in the direction of statements or evidence to the contrary.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Starcoaster

[nick_theboatman]

I was there yesterday with a big blackboard-size banner saying "Say NO to CRT / IWA Abuse of Boaters Without Home Moorings". I handed out leaflets that laid out why this abuse is ongoing.

 

I managed to collar Tony Hales, Robin Evans and Nigel Johnson each for a few minutes.

The primary points were:

- they are not changing their policy

- they still want to limit the numbers of live-abaords; they deny that they still want us gone, by pricing us out and curtailing new entrants (Sally Ash's statements made to camera in the River Lea public meeting March 2011); their policy is focusing on roving mooring permits

- they aren't interested in a compromise "just for the sake of it" and if we seek common ground then its for us to come up with the creativity and it must meet the needs of all, not just those who use their boats as their homes

- the Council spent a considerable amount of time discussing moorings and CC'ers in the meeting yesterday morning and they will be publishing the minutes shortly.

 

The meeting was wall-to-wall corporate speil geeing up confidence and seeking to get everyone to engage, provide contribution for free and then give loads of cash.

Edited September 28, 2012 by nick_theboatman

[Tuscan]

'Provide colour' my freaking lord, so nice to know we're that important in the greater scheme of the waterways.

 

I'm also concerned by what I see as the IWA's total disinterest in or even active distain for liveaboard boaters, and I think that they will do what they can (or have already started to) to eventually affect public opinion or the opinion of their members to the point that they will actively lobby for policies designed to discourage, out right ban or make it as hard as possible if not impossible for people to CC genuinely or to live on their boat unless they have a designated residential marina mooring.

 

Their 'mission' mentions "To encourage the fullest use of the inland waterways for recreation and commerce in so far as that is commensurate with their preservation, the maintenance and improvement of their historic and natural environment and the enjoyment of others." notably leaving out the large demographic of those of us who live on our boats.

Whether this ommision was accidental (although I strongly suspect it was not) or deliberate, it concerns me that there are no (what I consdier to be)independent or non IWA promoted boater reps on CART, nor anyone on the council who has a vested intereset in listening to the issues of the significant number of us who are liveaboard boaters.

 

If I have got the wrong end of the stick with any of this, I am sure (and indeed I hope) that someone will be along shortly to put me right and point me in the direction of statements or evidence to the contrary.

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps they were thinking of you when they referred to "adding colour" , you certainly added colour when on Reg at Alvercote...........

[PiRSqwared]

The MOU looks like a list of platitudes to me. Total lack of vision. It is telling that such a facile document has the potential to cause controversy. A total waste of bandwidth!

[jenlyn]

I suspect what CRT is trying to implement on the K&A, is a forerunner for the rest of the system. A watchful eye may be needed.

[PiRSqwared]

Agreed

[Starcoaster]

Also agreed.

Problem is, by the time enough people are affected to want to proactively do something about it, will it be too late?

(I'm not saying I have any better ideas, it's a genuine question.)

 

 

Ps Tuscan, let's leave my swearing when winding in front of a crowd out of this can we!

Edited September 28, 2012 by Starcoaster

[jenlyn]

As a liveaboard cc'er, I have to be honest and say I am very worried about my choice of lifestyle. Although I find some of the K&A boaters a little radical, I can see they have a problem with CRT, seemingly on a mission to make life hard for them. I am not saying it's one sided, but when you read up on both sides of the story, it gives me cause for concern.

I think now would be a good time for cc'ers to form some sort of group to represent us. Otherwise, I see our chosen lifestyle becoming very expensive or banned.

[Starcoaster]

Though I'm currently marina based, I don't intend to be living offline any longer than in the short term. I think the whispers in the wind give warning that future times may well not be good for anyone who cc's or who wants to potentially be able to, and I find myself concerned about the viability of a lifestyle I have barely even begun.

I agree if it is possible to get a group together this would be a good idea.

 

Do associations such as the RBOA which is already established have an interest in this kind of thing already? I'd support pretty much any group that did this, be it new and independent or one more established such as the RBOA.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Starcoaster

[jenlyn]

I was there yesterday with a big blackboard-size banner saying "Say NO to CRT / IWA Abuse of Boaters Without Home Moorings". I handed out leaflets that laid out why this abuse is ongoing.

 

I managed to collar Tony Hales, Robin Evans and Nigel Johnson each for a few minutes.

The primary points were:

- they are not changing their policy

- they still want to limit the numbers of live-abaords; they deny that they still want us gone, by pricing us out and curtailing new entrants (Sally Ash's statements made to camera in the River Lea public meeting March 2011); their policy is focusing on roving mooring permits

- they aren't interested in a compromise "just for the sake of it" and if we seek common ground then its for us to come up with the creativity and it must meet the needs of all, not just those who use their boats as their homes

- the Council spent a considerable amount of time discussing moorings and CC'ers in the meeting yesterday morning and they will be publishing the minutes shortly.

 

The meeting was wall-to-wall corporate speil geeing up confidence and seeking to get everyone to engage, provide contribution for free and then give loads of cash.

Shouting the odds at CRT, whether your sat across from them at a table, or waving banners in front of their faces is not a way forward. You have to get your own house in order and go to them with ideas they can buy into. Look at how quickly the lea and stort boaters dealt with CRT's intrusion. The LSB got their house in order, then produced sensible ideas that CRT could live with. CRT are not monitored by the government, MP's are not interested in our demise, CRT has unfortunately become a law unto itself, with no one to answer to. Forget human rights, name calling and looking for crooked deals. Come up with ideas, convince others that the rules need to be adhered to, before you lose out completely.

 

Though I'm currently marina based, I don't intend to be living offline any longer than in the short term. I think the whispers in the wind give warning that future times may well not be good for anyone who cc's or who wants to potentially be able to, and I find myself concerned about the viability of a lifestyle I have barely even begun.

I agree if it is possible to get a group together this would be a good idea.

 

Do associations such as the RBOA which is already established have an interest in this kind of thing already? I'd support pretty much any group that did this, be it new and independent or one more established such as the RBOA.

I was thinking along the same lines. If perhaps we spoke with an established group, to see if we had common ground. Perhaps NABO?

I can live with the rules we have in place, as no doubt can many others. I think we need to convince CRT that a small minority bending the rules should not give reason to change the status quo drastically. It's not rule changes that are needed, better to enforce what they have in place.

[jelunga]

Though I'm currently marina based, I don't intend to be living offline any longer than in the short term. I think the whispers in the wind give warning that future times may well not be good for anyone who cc's or who wants to potentially be able to, and I find myself concerned about the viability of a lifestyle I have barely even begun.

I agree if it is possible to get a group together this would be a good idea.

 

Do associations such as the RBOA which is already established have an interest in this kind of thing already? I'd support pretty much any group that did this, be it new and independent or one more established such as the RBOA.

I am a member of RBOA. i was initially very keen to contribute and offered help with their almost moribund web site. However the impression I have subsequently received is of an organisation whose inbreeding of Committee members and officers is strangling its development. For example, the rules say that to vote and be an officer or committee member you have to live on your boat. Fair enough. But then when the chairman stopped living on his boat, the rules were ignored.

Additionally, one of the recently elected Council Members of CRT is both an IWA and RBOA officer /committee member. I cannot see how the differing objectives of the two organisations can be adequately represented on the CRT Council by the same person!

I apologise if I have misunderstood the situation, but I also think the RBOA committee is a little too cosy with BW / CRT

[sueb]

NABO has always supported continuous cruisers. It won't support continuous mooring although it will give advice & help to those members who run into difficulties.

[Rebotco]

I am purely a leisure cruiser so have no axe to grind either way. However, it seems to me that genuine liveaboard continuous cruisers should be given every encouragement to maintain their lifestyle. As this forum clearly shows, the knowledge and experience these boaters bring to the whole canal scene is just plain irreplaceable. It would be a major loss to every canal user if their expertise were to be lost because of muddled thinking by authorities obsessed by the relatively few who lie about being CC'rs. By all means throw the book at those who cheat the system, but do not throw out the baby with the bath water!

[Les&Gerry]

There are two boats that have no licence that are on the Leeds Liverpool on the Leigh branch in Leigh. One has got a flat and says his boat will cost him to much to repair and one is living aboard. So should these boats be removed ?

.I think that they should be removed as one of them has rubish on the roof, which will no doubt end up in the canal. The other boat just does'nt give a crap as I have heared it generater going (and it is loud) going after 9pm near flats.

[Starcoaster]

I don't know a lot about NABO but the couple of mentions of it in this thread seem positive.

For those of us that are interested then, how to proceed? Shall I (or someone?) contact NABO and maybe ask if they'd come and look at this thread and give their thoughts?

 

I agree with what has been said that as it stands, the CC system and rules while they have their flaws, are basically workable for anyone who is genuinely willing to and is not intent on CM'ing and pissing off a lot of their surrounding area.

What concerns me is that the pattern as I observe seems to be paving the way for potential future changes to the way CC'ing is viewed and the rules surrounding it. There's already been mention in another thread very recently about someone who had been on a 14 day mooring for 9 days being ticketed for overstaying. I think that some cohesion and a united voice between CC'ers and other boaters who support the rights of genuine CC'ers to remain as they are would help a lot, because it seems to me as if the IWA/ CART collective see liveaboards and cc'ers (liveaboard or not) as an inconvenience and possible threat to their authority for daring to wish to use the same facilities as holidayers and those who don't use their boats every day.

We're not a small demographic, but I think that because we tend to be quite spread out geographically and not always aware of issues in other areas nor in contact with each other as a group, our voices run the risk of not being heard against the highly organised and established IWA representatives and spokespersons.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Starcoaster

[Higgs]

The IWA have done a fair job of neutralising the boaters' voice.

[PiRSqwared]

Personally I would be weary about hitching m'wagon to one of the existing membership organisations.

[Starcoaster]

Pi, can I ask why? I'm not overly familiar with either the RBOA or the NABO and am interested in the thoughts of people who are.