Struggling with C&RT

[carlt]

Road system dies = government effected, can't use their fancy limo = they sort it out

canal system dies = government not effected = don't give a toss = youre aground in a stinking ditch

 

Think it through

It isn't that simple.

 

You have a legal right to use the public highway and the Highway Authorities have a legal obligation to maintain it to a standard that allows that right to be asserted.

 

The government were quite happy for the policy of allowing roads to fall into disrepair until it was pointed out that "Unsuitable for Road Vehicles" signs did not remove the responsibility to maintain the roads without an accompanying Traffic Restriction Order.

 

Road closure notices are a legal requirement that can be challenged. CRT stoppage notices are for information only and we have no right to challenge them.

 

The government do not own the system we do so

Is that true any more?

 

Was ownership of the system passed over to CRT or just custodianship?

[mrsmelly]

Ok when British waterways were our Lords and Masters, I paid my license and mooring and sat back while they looked after the waterways. Now they have changed management I see them asking for volunteers to do the same work that the BW staff used to do, clearing rubbish etc.

 

My mooring fees and license go up in price and yet C&RT are going to use volunteers to do work they used to pay for. I also note that the Staff member who used to live in the lock cottage at Uxbridge lock has been thrown out so they can sell the property!!!! (he has now moved with his wife on to a boat next door to me, I was actually thrown off my mooring so he could moor there but thats another story).

 

I just wonder how other people feel about the transition.

 

As a country we have just wasted billions on a stupid sporting event, dont even try to find any logic, there simply isnt any.

 

Tim

[John V]

No, I think you should read my original post which started this thread, I'm not discouraging anyone, and frankly, volunteering is fine and admirable (I do some myself). I'm just trying to work out what C&RT means to boaters in terms of expectations. You're accusing me, quite harshly, of saying discouraging things. I'm sorry but I think a forum is a place for asking questions and, in an adult fashion discussing them. That may mean some of the responses may be negative.

 

Show me one place in this where I have called out "doomed", in my post, I am merely asking a question.

 

Ok, concur. It was your second entry rather than your original that rattled my cage, especially the last para. I do seem to have been a bit unfair so my apologies for any offence.

[Tuscan]

As a country we have just wasted billions on a stupid sporting event, dont even try to find any logic, there simply isnt any.

 

Tim

 

 

 

Yes I did try to find some logic in your statement but failed.

[larkshall]

If CART(horse), continue the way they are going, we will be yelling bring back BW, I wonder how long.

 

I also agree with Tafelberg, about either licence fee OR volunteering, NOT BOTH

[tafelberg]

Ok, concur. It was your second entry rather than your original that rattled my cage, especially the last para. I do seem to have been a bit unfair so my apologies for any offence.

 

 

Agreed!

 

Interesting discussion though isn't it?

Edited September 28, 2012 by tafelberg

[John V]

Agreed!

 

Interesting discussion though isn't it?

 

Yeah, give you that, it certainly woke up the grumpy old man (me) this morning. C & RT might not be the best of answers but its what we've got, if it needs volunteers, it needs volunteers. Government finance policies always seem to me to be like a pack of dogs fighting over a bone, with very little attention to the long term or to the bigger picture. If I am right in that, the limited independence of the C & RT is an improvement, however small.

[mrsmelly]

Yes I did try to find some logic in your statement but failed.

 

Then I shall enlighten you. Quite simply as a country we blow billions yearly in many areas so Cart or whoever they call themselves will be no different. We wasted billions on a sporting event we waste billions and more importantly young lives in Afghanistan again totaly unecesarily and so on and so on......the list is simply endless.

 

Tim

[Tuscan]

Then I shall enlighten you. Quite simply as a country we blow billions yearly in many areas so Cart or whoever they call themselves will be no different. We wasted billions on a sporting event we waste billions and more importantly young lives in Afghanistan again totaly unecesarily and so on and so on......the list is simply endless.

 

Tim

 

 

You must have the weight of the world on your shoulders with endless lists and billions and billions being spent on things you don't agree with.

[T.A]

Am not sure where you get the idea that "we" own the system from. I think you need to read up on the subject a little.

I can see why robin Evans runs CRT the way he does (to stop any pulling in different directions) to some extent I can understand that, but as has been proven in the past, he sometimes makes costly errors. Add up the wages for the top 10, you will be surprised what percentage of the government yearly funding goes toward this. Then ask yourself if that is sustainable with CRT's income.

I agree about the level of money being spent on the board, but that is an issue that should be corrected and hopefuully under charitable status it will be I hope! With regards to we own the system the last time I looked we were still a democracy and we elect the government to act on our behalf so therefore what ever the government owns we own! So where am I reading that wrong!

[jenlyn]

I agree about the level of money being spent on the board, but that is an issue that should be corrected and hopefuully under charitable status it will be I hope! With regards to we own the system the last time I looked we were still a democracy and we elect the government to act on our behalf so therefore what ever the government owns we own! So where am I reading that wrong!

A quote from BW to an foi request

" "who owns the inland waterways network a) the taxpayer, the governmentor c) british waterways?"British Waterways is a public body and the navigation authority for themajority of inland waterways of Great Britain (comprising some 3,135 km ofcanals and rivers). British Waterways Board was created under Section 1of the Transport Act 1962 and under Section 31(1) and (5) of the 1962 Actthe inland waterways of the British Transport Commission were transferredto British Waterways.The majority of the inland waterways are therefore owned and/or managed byBritish Waterways".

I hope this helps.

You will find the list here http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/24390/response/70751/attach/html/3/BW%20canals%20owned%20and%20managed%204.pdf.html

Edited September 28, 2012 by jenlyn

[carlt]

The majority of the inland waterways are therefore owned and/or managed byBritish Waterways".

As a public body, though, the waterways were still owned by the public, when BW had them.

 

What is interesting now, however, is whether or not the ownership has been transferred to CRT and, therefore, out of public hands.

 

I believe this is a far more important issue than volunteers.

 

If the CRT experiment fails will the waterways be renationalised or can CRT sell them off to the highest bidder?

[jenlyn]

As a public body, though, the waterways were still owned by the public, when BW had them.

 

What is interesting now, however, is whether or not the ownership has been transferred to CRT and, therefore, out of public hands.

 

I believe this is a far more important issue than volunteers.

 

If the CRT experiment fails will the waterways be renationalised or can CRT sell them off to the highest bidder?

I can't remember all the details, but at the time of transfer, I believe a clause was put into place that would return the waterways to a minister. I did put it on this site somewhere, I only wish I knew where.

[larkshall]

Well if ever canals are sold off, I can think of a few that can be filled in and used as even more cycles paths for the demon cyclist.

[Tuscan]

It's a tough one I would like CRT to have enough cash to ensure that maintenance was done in a planned way to a correct level and breaches repaired and hopefully a dredging improvement program implemented. However I do not want the canal system modernised, towpaths tarmaced and environmental signs every 100m pointing out things to see. Think I will be disappointed as I doubt the former will be implemented before the latter.

[T.A]

It's a tough one I would like CRT to have enough cash to ensure that maintenance was done in a planned way to a correct level and breaches repaired and hopefully a dredging improvement program implemented. However I do not want the canal system modernised, towpaths tarmaced and environmental signs every 100m pointing out things to see. Think I will be disappointed as I doubt the former will be implemented before the latter.

Yes and in order to do the things you would like to see in the former they may have to do the latter to attract the money to do the former!

[LEO]

Hi,

 

To date this thread has so far concentrated on bankside jobs - are there no volunteer jobs in a admin. role? - perhaps they could get a bit of help and some 'brains' in this area, if volunteers were used.

 

I was interested in the posible cost of repairing the latest breach..........consider the money lost in various ventures (say Gloucester Docks,pub partnerships for two). -- makes the cost of reparing a breach sound like chickenfeed.

 

Speaking to a former employee, there are some departments which are 'out of their depth' with regard to what is expected of them - hence big money lost.

 

So is your money being well spent........................

 

I think there are times when one has to look at the 'big' picture and not just what is being done to help boaters - who are now well down the list when the empty bowl goes round for second helpings - from an already empty cooking pot.

 

Let's hope there are no more items of major expenditure in the near future..

 

Leo.

[carlt]

....repairing the latest breach..........

on that subject I wonder if there are any other civil engineers that would love to have a crack at that one, even on a voluntary basis.

[the grinch]

can't see why not, we have repaired 2 breaches on the wey and arun with volunteer labour as well as built locks, bridges and even rebuilt an aqueduct (lording's)

also lined several sections of canal to stop leakage.