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Diesel weeping HA2

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I have a lister HA2 on my boat, and over time the engine oil gets filled up with diesel. I have had the rocker covers off and side plates and tightened everything and had engine running for hours and all the leaks were fixed, but after a few weeks the engine oils has risen on the dipstick about quarter of an inch. I want to know if this is normall for this type of engine as all the diesel pipes and pumps are in the engine. The pumps are fine and so is all pipe work. No splits no nothing. Yesterday I found a weap on the union from the pump to the injector and removed it checked it and re seated it and it's not leaking now. But I bet when I come back from my holiday (16 days cruising) it will need a oil change as there will be diesel in the oil.

I am taking 20 gallon of engine oil with me as I may need to do a few oil changes lol

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

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what oil are you using? Morris's 10W40 was the best i'd found, does sound like worn piston rings or the fuel rail leaking again. but i'm sure others will have opinions as well

 

kev

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I have a lister HA2 on my boat, and over time the engine oil gets filled up with diesel. I have had the rocker covers off and side plates and tightened everything and had engine running for hours and all the leaks were fixed, but after a few weeks the engine oils has risen on the dipstick about quarter of an inch. I want to know if this is normall for this type of engine as all the diesel pipes and pumps are in the engine. The pumps are fine and so is all pipe work. No splits no nothing. Yesterday I found a weap on the union from the pump to the injector and removed it checked it and re seated it and it's not leaking now. But I bet when I come back from my holiday (16 days cruising) it will need a oil change as there will be diesel in the oil.

I am taking 20 gallon of engine oil with me as I may need to do a few oil changes lol

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

I was told that one of the standard tests Listers used to do was to run an engine under load with 100% diesel in the sump. Don't try this at home. but it does indicate that they'll tolerate a certain amount of diesel contamination.

 

I had a similar problem many many moons ago with an HB2. It turned out to be that the nipple on the injector, to which the pressure pipe screws, was leaking slightly. Not the pressure pipe union itself, but the joint which is part of the injector itself. It was very hard to see, even running with the covers off. Worth checking.

 

Tim

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the other thing to remember as i've said previously the engine was "refurbished" not rebuilt approx 20 years ago and by a less than thorough engineer other than that it had nothing done for the next 10 years other than oil changes and the return rail being changed.

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I was told that one of the standard tests Listers used to do was to run an engine under load with 100% diesel in the sump. Don't try this at home. but it does indicate that they'll tolerate a certain amount of diesel contamination.

Mine certainly survived unscathed a three-week cruise with increasing amounts, ending up about 50%. That was a dry-sump engine though. The real danger with wet sump engines is that as the level rises the engine starts to consume its own oil and runs away.

 

MP.

Edited by MoominPapa

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I have heard (so only anecdotal) that Listers are notorious for this.

 

Yes certain models are, especially SR & their ilk.

The source is usually not too hard to find, though. A severe case can often be traced to a leaking bleed screw on an injector pump.

 

Tim

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<snip>

 

The real danger with wet sump engines is that as the level rises the engine starts to consume its own oil and runs away.

 

MP.

 

Have you considered chaining it up at night?

 

Richard

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I was told that one of the standard tests Listers used to do was to run an engine under load with 100% diesel in the sump. Don't try this at home. but it does indicate that they'll tolerate a certain amount of diesel contamination.

 

Tim

I was once told by a Lister 'Engineer' that their engines could run on pure diesel in the sump as a "get you home" if the lubricating oil had been lost whilst at sea.

 

It is important though not to let the oil / diesel level rise too much as I have seen a couple 'run away' in the past where the engine consumes its own lubricant. It then takes a brave person to decompress the cylinders before the engine seizes or blows up :captain:

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what oil are you using? Morris's 10W40 was the best i'd found, does sound like worn piston rings or the fuel rail leaking again. but i'm sure others will have opinions as well

 

kev

Hi Kevin

This time it was the pipe that comes from the pump to the injector. I removed it and reseated it and it seems to have completely stopped weaping, but I have my doubts that it's going to start again. It looks like I will have to replace that injector pipe as it has flared ends that seal on the pump and the injector. Yes using 10-40 oil.

 

Cheers

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The commonest source of diesel leakage into the sump is from the fuel leak off connections. Depending on the age some are made with brass connectors with compression joints while the very last ones had push in plastic joints. The injector leak off fittings sometimes have small banjo bolts with copper washers. Always change the copper washers, they are pence, never re-use. All the joints can be a pain but if you take the time and set them up properly you can eliminate the leaks. As to running them with a sump full of diesel.. don't! A Lister running away is not funny, especially as they like to go backwards! Also the diesel will scour the engine right out which makes it lovely and clean for guys like me to rebuild! Lovely! :rolleyes:

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Could it be the fuel lift pump diaphragm? If this is split neat diesel can go into the sump...

 

Mike.

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I have an ancient SR handbook which states that its permisable to add a small amount of fuel oil to the engine oil during severely cold weather to aid hand starting. It does give the maximum amount but i couldn't be bothered to look it up.

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Could it be the fuel lift pump diaphragm? If this is split neat diesel can go into the sump...

 

Mike.

No, I had a good look at the pumps and had it running with tissue paper wrapped around and seen no evidence of diesel.

This time I seen it coming from the joint between the injector pipe and the pump. I reseated the pipe and it definitely not leaking now, I have had the return fuel rail repaired once as that split. But what's annoying is you know something else will start leaking, it's seems to be on going. I just wanted to know if it's possible to completely stop all weap permantly, or do all these engines weap diesel.

Cheers

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I have an ancient SR handbook which states that its permisable to add a small amount of fuel oil to the engine oil during severely cold weather to aid hand starting. It does give the maximum amount but i couldn't be bothered to look it up.

 

I've certainly seen the same suggestion, I thought it was in a Petters AA1 manual but the manual I have now doesn't have any mention of it.

 

Tim

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The commonest source of diesel leakage into the sump is from the fuel leak off connections. Depending on the age some are made with brass connectors with compression joints while the very last ones had push in plastic joints. The injector leak off fittings sometimes have small banjo bolts with copper washers. Always change the copper washers, they are pence, never re-use. All the joints can be a pain but if you take the time and set them up properly you can eliminate the leaks. As to running them with a sump full of diesel.. don't! A Lister running away is not funny, especially as they like to go backwards! Also the diesel will scour the engine right out which makes it lovely and clean for guys like me to rebuild! Lovely! :rolleyes:

Definately no leaks From spill off connectors. It was the joint from the pump to the injector pipe. You only could see the weap once you had the engine reving at working load. Otherwise if it was on tickover you wouldn't see anything.

Cheers

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I've certainly seen the same suggestion, I thought it was in a Petters AA1 manual but the manual I have now doesn't have any mention of it.

 

Tim

Found it, a 1966 manual. Quotes;---- For temperatures below O degs F it is permissible to dilute the SAE10W lubricating oil with up to 25% fuel oil and to run and top up the sump with this mixture, or use SAE5W lubricating oil.

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Found it, a 1966 manual. Quotes;---- For temperatures below O degs F it is permissible to dilute the SAE10W lubricating oil with up to 25% fuel oil and to run and top up the sump with this mixture, or use SAE5W lubricating oil.

Music to my ears lol

At least I know if it starts leaking again up to 25% diesel in the oil shouldn't do any harm. :-)

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I have an ancient SR handbook which states that its permisable to add a small amount of fuel oil to the engine oil during severely cold weather to aid hand starting. It does give the maximum amount but i couldn't be bothered to look it up.

it was never an issue when i had her there is a fuel override knob on the HA for cold starting, just pull it out to engage it and once started it drops back in.

 

the other thing i always started her with both decompression levers open and engaged them one at a time (less stress on batteries and starter motor)

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Music to my ears lol

At least I know if it starts leaking again up to 25% diesel in the oil shouldn't do any harm. :-)

 

 

...if you're operating below 0 degF (about -18C)...

 

 

Tim

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it was never an issue when i had her there is a fuel override knob on the HA for cold starting, just pull it out to engage it and once started it drops back in.

 

the other thing i always started her with both decompression levers open and engaged them one at a time (less stress on batteries and starter motor)

Where's the fuel override never seen that, always starts first turn, that's one thing I like about this engine is how easy it starts, even after months of no use its fires up instantly. The engine room is the only part of the boat that's not heated and last year hen it was super cold it wasn't a problem, I did put compression levers over as oil was thick due to the temperature bring so cold, it sounded like I had a lat battery, but it was the oil being so thick!

Hope the engine doesn't leak diesel now, I'll find out next time I take her out or several hours.

Cheers

 

...if you're operating below 0 degF (about -18C)...

I'll cool the engine with nitrogen, :-)

 

 

 

Tim

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if i recall its front right when looking forward behind the flywheel about 2/3rds up the engine its a round knob about 3/4" in diameter

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Rich, think i might have the manual somewhere, sure i kept it as it was difficult to aquire. if i do find it i will copy it and post

 

kev

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Except that Bizzy was quoting from the SR handbook, not the HA...

 

There is no mention of diluting oil with diesel in my copy of the LRM/SRM handbook. Sounds a bad idea to me.

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