Beta 43 tapping noise when starting from cold

[Humphrey]

Have a Beta 43 approximately 1400 hours, regular oil and filter changes. Tappets have been adjusted, checked and rechecked in accordance to Beta's workshop manual for this engine. Workshop manual details supplied by Beta themselves by email and over the phone.

The problem is when I start the engine from cold there is a pronounced tapping noise. As the engine warms up so the tapping noise starts to disappear in a very short time. As stated, tappets have been checked and adjustment sequence checked also. Would appreciate any comments as to what this could be please. The speed of the tapping noise whilst on tick-over appears to be faster than pistons/crankshaft, (tappets camfollowers suspect)!!!

[Guest]

Have a Beta 43 approximately 1400 hours, regular oil and filter changes. Tappets have been adjusted, checked and rechecked in accordance to Beta's workshop manual for this engine. Workshop manual details supplied by Beta themselves by email and over the phone.

The problem is when I start the engine from cold there is a pronounced tapping noise. As the engine warms up so the tapping noise starts to disappear in a very short time. As stated, tappets have been checked and adjustment sequence checked also. Would appreciate any comments as to what this could be please. The speed of the tapping noise whilst on tick-over appears to be faster than pistons/crankshaft, (tappets camfollowers suspect)!!!

Has it always done it, suddenly started doing it, gradually got worse etc.?

Are you using the correct grade of oil?

 

My Vetus does this to some extent now that it is getting older, but soon quietens down (less than a minute.)

 

One last thing: I had a diesel Nissan Van that had a tapping noise. I tried all sorts of things, and it turned out to be the fan belt. The Nissan dealer said it was common, and they sprayed them with Duck Oil! I didn't fancy that idea so put a fresh belt on.

[Bobbybass]

I have a Beta 43 which has done approx 1400 hours and has had regular oil and filter changes. The tappets have been adjusted, checked and rechecked in accordance with the Beta workshop manual received from Beta themselves. I am, however, getting a tapping noise when starting the engine from cold which disappears slowly as the engine gets warmer. There is good oil pressure from start-up. The tapping noise appears to be travelling faster than the piston/crankshaft, Could be camfollowers/rocker shaft/rockers!! Any suggestions would be appreciated please. The noise was there before adjusting tappets.

What did you set the tappets to..?

 

Adrian (Beta) told me..18-22 thou..but I find they have to be very close to 18 to avoid 'tapping' on cold startup.

 

Bob

[Nickhlx]

What did you set the tappets to..?

 

Adrian (Beta) told me..18-22 thou..but I find they have to be very close to 18 to avoid 'tapping' on cold startup.

 

Bob

 

... but if its faster than crank speed it isn't going to be valve or cam related...

 

The only things running faster than crank speed are likely to be the alternator and possibly the oil pump if its geared up, and possibly layshafts in the gearbox..

 

Nick

[DHutch]

Topics need merging ... Mods ?

Merged

 

I'm not a big diesel man, but surely in a four stroke the cam is running at half engine speed not twice, as said. Although there will be more the one valve event per rotation.

 

On my CVH you can take the cam cover off and watch the collapsed hydraulic tappets as you crank the engine, and then leave it running cover off until it gets around to pumping them up, although you do loose some oil, it looses a fair bit through the gasket and sump anyway, even when its kept its dipstick in....

 

 

 

Daniel

[Nickhlx]

Merged

 

I'm not a big diesel man, but surely in a four stroke the cam is running at half engine speed not twice, as said. Although there will be more the one valve event per rotation.

 

On my CVH you can take the cam cover off and watch the collapsed hydraulic tappets as you crank the engine, and then leave it running cover off until it gets around to pumping them up, although you do loose some oil, it looses a fair bit through the gasket and sump anyway, even when its kept its dipstick in....

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Thanks Daniel...

 

Where was it stated the cam is running at twice engine (crank) speed ? I missed that ...

You are quite right - a cam runs at half crank speed in a four stroke engine

 

Nick

[simon&jan]

Yes you are right , camshafts do run at half crank speed . The noise could be a slightly larger clearance that shuts up as it warms or a slightly noiseier diesel knock with the enrichment device that goes off after a short while as the engine warms , if its faster than crank speed then that is a very fast tapping noise in deed , when a big end goes you need ear defenders !!!

[larkshall]

I'm not too familiar with this engine, but check you haven't got a broken spring. These can cause the similar type of tap.

[Humphrey]

Thanks everyone for the ideas and suggestions. Will chck them out.

[Tim Boat]

Did you every work out what it was or if it’s normal? If you’ve been ignoring it for 10 years now that would be great to hear!  We have same isssue with exactly the same engine and same hours. Also adjusted tappets per the manual but still have what sounds like one noisy tappet. 

[Quattrodave]

An old race team mechanic taught me to check tappets with the engine running, these days health and safety would have a fit.  If you go through each lifter with a feeler guage about a quarter of the specified gap.  You can hear the difference and know if it needs a little more or a little less.  If you use a T-bar extension, knuckle and socket the adjustment can be made with it running too.

 

The other one to try is putting a screwdriver to your ear and listed to various points on the engine.  As others have said, it may not be a tappet/lifter.

[cuthound]

11 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

An old race team mechanic taught me to check tappets with the engine running, these days health and safety would have a fit.  If you go through each lifter with a feeler guage about a quarter of the specified gap.  You can hear the difference and know if it needs a little more or a little less.  If you use a T-bar extension, knuckle and socket the adjustment can be made with it running too.

 

The other one to try is putting a screwdriver to your ear and listed to various points on the engine.  As others have said, it may not be a tappet/lifter.

 

I had a Vauxhall Chevette where the manual specified setting the tappets with the engine running at a reduced tickover. The feeler gauge got stuck in one and the end broke off and promptly disappeared down a push rod hole!

 

Luckily when I drained the sump it came out with the oil.

 

[Tony Brooks]

29 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I had a Vauxhall Chevette where the manual specified setting the tappets with the engine running at a reduced tickover. The feeler gauge got stuck in one and the end broke off and promptly disappeared down a push rod hole!

 

Luckily when I drained the sump it came out with the oil.

 

 

It is all to do with cam profile, I think the GM designed engines had a much shorter "back of the cam" so rules of nine/piston pairs methods were not likely to be accurate - hence do it running, but feeler strip is better because it messes up ordinary feeler gauges.

[JoeC]

23 hours ago, Tim Boat said:

Did you every work out what it was or if it’s normal? If you’ve been ignoring it for 10 years now that would be great to hear!  We have same isssue with exactly the same engine and same hours. Also adjusted tappets per the manual but still have what sounds like one noisy tappet. 

@Humphrey was last on the forum in December 2016 so we may never find out.

[Tony Brooks]

A worn small end can sound like a tappet, but they can go for many years without anything serious happening. A broken ring can sound similar, but how that would happen unless Easystart was misused or new rings had been fitted to old bores without allowing for the top ridge, I have no idea.