Twin shoreline cable

[fudd]

This diagram kind of explains it (very simplified):

 

 

Think of it in terms of fuel/energy instead of just electricity. For example, instead of the immersion heater, get the calorifier sorted out. And instead of electric radiators, solid fuel stove, etc

 

We would love to use the stove for all of the above but I started a thread a while ago and still haven't got it resolved. It cooks well and heats very well but , hot water! Another issue. Again thanks

[bizzard]

We have loads of this trouble here.All the power station boats cause it usually.They get through lots of televisions too,they seem to be the worst affected as the power goes off whilst there on.

And the blue land-line plugs often have blackened or burnt contact pins,this i think is due to people waggling them furiously whilst connecting or disconnecting them which opens up the female contact and causes bad contact. Immersion heater elements in horizontal calorifiers short out frequently too and keep blowing trips ect.

I've fitted a few coal stoves in these boats,but i find laziness intervenes,its easier to switch on electric fires in a lot of cases.

[Nickhlx]

We have loads of this trouble here.All the power station boats cause it usually.They get through lots of televisions too,they seem to be the worst affected as the power goes off whilst there on.

And the blue land-line plugs often have blackened or burnt contact pins,this i think is due to people waggling them furiously whilst connecting or disconnecting them which opens up the female contact and causes bad contact. Immersion heater elements in horizontal calorifiers short out frequently too and keep blowing trips ect.

I've fitted a few coal stoves in these boats,but i find laziness intervenes,its easier to switch on electric fires in a lot of cases.

 

When I saw you had posted I thought you were going to suggest a wheeze of the week, e.g. using two adjacent canal boats in tents, connected to different phases, electrolysing the water into H2 and O, piping it into a converted Morso which then glowed from the recombination of the gases...

 

Of course it wouldn't have worked though... as there would have been a net consumption of energy splitting the canal water...

 

Nick

[ditchcrawler]

Strang this one has just come up as I was discussing it with a sailing friend just yesterday. He tells me that this happens al the time in marinas on the abroad. His grip was they are selfish and use all the sockets up. He also had a view on which nationalities are the worst and it wasn't the French or English.

[Guest]

Strang this one has just come up as I was discussing it with a sailing friend just yesterday. He tells me that this happens al the time in marinas on the abroad. His grip was they are selfish and use all the sockets up. He also had a view on which nationalities are the worst and it wasn't the French or English.

 

??? -

 

[Albion]

??? -

 

Nope

Roger

[by'eck]

We have loads of this trouble here.All the power station boats cause it usually.They get through lots of televisions too,they seem to be the worst affected as the power goes off whilst there on.

And the blue land-line plugs often have blackened or burnt contact pins,this i think is due to people waggling them furiously whilst connecting or disconnecting them which opens up the female contact and causes bad contact. Immersion heater elements in horizontal calorifiers short out frequently too and keep blowing trips ect.

I've fitted a few coal stoves in these boats,but i find laziness intervenes,its easier to switch on electric fires in a lot of cases.

 

Interesting point about the crappy but legal blue 16 amp connectors. I burnt out two inline plug/sockets with a small 12,000 BThU air-con. Admittedly it was on for long periods but was rated at 1250 watts max with little else used.

 

As you say the poor design can easily cause bad contact, even with light use I've found, with partial welding together the pre-empt for complete burn out.

 

Changing to USA approved Hubbell 240v 50 amp connectors solved the problem as well as being much safer. Its impossible to make accidental contact even with a nail, since the conducting part on the female requires a 30° twist once pushed together to make. Sadly these extremely safe connectors are illegal in this country.

[bizzard]

Interesting point about the crappy but legal blue 16 amp connectors. I burnt out two inline plug/sockets with a small 12,000 BThU air-con. Admittedly it was on for long periods but was rated at 1250 watts max with little else used.

 

As you say the poor design can easily cause bad contact, even with light use I've found, with partial welding together the pre-empt for complete burn out.

 

Changing to USA approved Hubbell 240v 50 amp connectors solved the problem as well as being much safer. Its impossible to make accidental contact even with a nail, since the conducting part on the female requires a 30° twist once pushed together to make. Sadly these extremely safe connectors are illegal in this country.

I bet the Japanese make decent ones too. The Hella one,''are they German?''seem to be the most troublesome.But i suppose most of them are Hella. Hell of a nuisance.

I don't like them. I run an ordinary extension lead under a ''half U'' shaped rubber grommet in the bottom of my rear door with an ordinary 13amp double socket on the end,so all keeps nice and dry and cozy.

[smileypete]

And the blue land-line plugs often have blackened or burnt contact pins,this i think is due to people waggling them furiously whilst connecting or disconnecting them which opens up the female contact and causes bad contact. Immersion heater elements in horizontal calorifiers short out frequently too and keep blowing trips ect.

I'd expect better luck with the Austrian made PCE ones.

 

Bit 'o silicone grease on the pins helps too.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Mat B]

 

Re the 2x240=440 or 2x240=480 question further above; when it's 3-phase electricity 2x240=415

 

Or, since 1995, 2x230=400 V

 

Even lower

 

m@

[Nickhlx]

I have never understood what the "Grease on electrical terminals" thing is meant to achieve....

 

I can understand it would be appropriate to coat e.g. battery posts with grease when they are stored on a shelf and occasionally bench-charged ....

 

and I can see that a mated clamp on a battery post would also keep the corrosion at bay....

 

but I really can not see that coating electrical connectors with an insulating layer does much for assisting the passage of electricity or reducing contact resistance...

 

Can someone explain please ?

 

Nick

[Arthur Brown]

Unloaded mains supplies are often higher than 240 -I've seen some measured as 260 so whatever the theory the three phase line voltage is too high to mess with.

[smileypete]

I have never understood what the "Grease on electrical terminals" thing is meant to achieve....

 

I can understand it would be appropriate to coat e.g. battery posts with grease when they are stored on a shelf and occasionally bench-charged ....

 

and I can see that a mated clamp on a battery post would also keep the corrosion at bay....

 

but I really can not see that coating electrical connectors with an insulating layer does much for assisting the passage of electricity or reducing contact resistance...

 

Can someone explain please ?

Well, what happens to brass when exposed to air over time, particularly in damp conditions?

 

Also why are the 16A connectors quite hard to pull apart sometimes?

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Nickhlx]

Well, what happens to brass when exposed to air over time, particularly in damp conditions?

 

Also why are the 16A connectors quite hard to pull apart sometimes?

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

So, are you saying that grease between contacts does not impede the passage of electric current or concentrate a high current into the high spots that do actually break through the film ?

 

As I said, I can understand why people put it over metals to prevent corrosion, I just can't understand putting grease between two surfaces that are meant to have as low a resistance as possible when clamped up - I have dismantled brass that has been clamped up and it's shiny underneath. Surely a better procedure would be to coat after clamping up clean, dry, bright and shiny metal ? Perhaps spray with something that dries with a thin plastic film, or even ACF-50 ?

 

Nick

[Arthur Brown]

Copper lugs and lead posts get an oxide film in storage so grease could hold this to a reasonable level. However one should clean the contact surfaces thoroughly before mating battery terminals. There used to(may still) be a product called No-Crode which was a red grease like substance that supposedly protected battery terminals and lugs while in service -not seen it recently.

[ditchcrawler]

Copper lugs and lead posts get an oxide film in storage so grease could hold this to a reasonable level. However one should clean the contact surfaces thoroughly before mating battery terminals. There used to(may still) be a product called No-Crode which was a red grease like substance that supposedly protected battery terminals and lugs while in service -not seen it recently.

It was made by Holt's and we used loads of it when I worked Offshore

[Nickhlx]

It was made by Holt's and we used loads of it when I worked Offshore

 

Did you apply it before mating the surfaces, or after ?

 

Nick

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Did you apply it before mating the surfaces, or after ?

 

Nick

Thinking back, before if we broke connections, but as maintenance just made sure things were well covered. I have not seen any about recently, maybe time to Google

[rawmusic]

Ok so the widow maker 2 x 16a male - 1 x 16a female isn't the most legal or safe cable, the truth is yes it would work as long as the bollard is wired to a single phase, which is easy to check as it must be clearly stated 415v between sockets if there is more than 1 phase wired to it ( using my little knowledge from a few years working on big power supplies )

So erm in short I'm not saying you should do it, but yes it would in theory work.

Don't blame me if it goes bang.

[smileypete]

So, are you saying that grease between contacts does not impede the passage of electric current or concentrate a high current into the high spots that do actually break through the film ?

In a 16A shoreline connector, no. It doesn't need to be pasted on, just a sparing amount will do. It won't help a marginal or loose connector though.

 

As I said, I can understand why people put it over metals to prevent corrosion, I just can't understand putting grease between two surfaces that are meant to have as low a resistance as possible when clamped up - I have dismantled brass that has been clamped up and it's shiny underneath. Surely a better procedure would be to coat after clamping up clean, dry, bright and shiny metal ? Perhaps spray with something that dries with a thin plastic film, or even ACF-50 ?

If plain silicone grease really did prevent metal to metal contact, it would be a good bearing grease - which it isn't, as it has no 'film strength'

 

But unlike normal grease it won't degrade eventually in the presence of moisture, or wash away easily.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited April 29, 2012 by smileypete

[Radiomariner]

In a 16A shoreline connector, no. It doesn't need to be pasted on, just a sparing amount will do. It won't help a marginal or loose connector though.

 

 

If plain silicone grease really did prevent metal to metal contact, it would be a good bearing grease - which it isn't, as it has no 'film strength'

 

But unlike normal grease it won't degrade eventually in the presence of moisture, or wash away easily.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Bunkum. Silicon grease is a non conductive lubricant, similar in many respects to Vasilene. Prime purpose is to protect from moisture and lubricate light moving parts. An exception to this is electrical contacts. An earlier post in this thread mentioned blackened or burnt out contact areas in sockets. One of the main causes of this is grease on plug pins. As I said the grease is an insulator, it reduces the contact area of the connection which will reduce current capacity cause overheating and arcing.

 

I recall how on a ship I was on I spent three weeks removing cleaning and replacing electric contacts behind the electrical switchboards. Some were OK (30%) the rest had to be replaced with new.Five contacts had actually welded together which required the ship to be blacked out just to get at them. This all because someone had decided that servicing the switch boxes would be easier if the contacts were greased!

There are, as someone else mentioned, special conductive greases available.

 

Pete, you put a smiley in your post so you were possibly jesting, but people on the forum, looking for information may not realise that.

Dont put silicon grease on electrical contacts!

Edited April 30, 2012 by Radiomariner

[Radiomariner]

Re the previously mentioned "switchboard incident"

The instruction book did in fact advise that the switchbox contacts should be greased. But on a different page there was a list of lubricants and where to be used!

Afraid I can not recall the type of lubricant. It had a graphite content. Below is a link to something possibly better.

 

. http://www.teckniteu...ges/grease.html

 

Edited to add: The OP's Idea of using two shore sockets is dangerous! Do not do it.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Radiomariner

[smileypete]

Re the previously mentioned "switchboard incident"

The instruction book did in fact advise that the switchbox contacts should be greased. But on a different page there was a list of lubricants and where to be used!

Afraid I can not recall the type of lubricant. It had a graphite content. Below is a link to something possibly better.

 

Look, I did not advise blindly putting any sort of grease on anything, did I? Just using a small amount of silicone grease on 16A shoreline connectors where they can seize from oxidation.

 

Now, why should you never use normal lubrication grease for this?

 

And why should silcone grease never be used where there's repeated arcing?

 

For a shoreline connector even WD40 or vaseline will work in a pinch, but they do degrade over time. With hindsight I wished I sent Mr Bizzard a PM.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[Keeping Up]

So what is the recommendation re battery terminals? Is Vaseline on the posts before assembly OK or not OK - or should I set up a poll to accommodate the answers?

[Gibbo]

Oh dear!

 

Shall I? Shan't I?

 

Naaaah