can I hire my boat through hire companies?

[Chox]

I'm not sure where to ask this question but here goes...

 

Are there any hire companies that hire out privately owned boats? The reason I ask this is that I would like to buy a boat but only wish/need to use it out of the main season. It would be good if the boat could provide revenue when I am not using it instead of just 'waiting' for me.

 

I would not have the time or support facilities to hire out the boat myself which is why I ask. I accept that the hire company would of course need to profit from this.

 

Is it done? Any advice or recommendations would be gratefully received

 

Many thanks

 

Chox

[Ray T]

Kate Boats http://www.kateboats.co.uk/ have some private boats in their hire fleet They are in Kate Boats livery though.

 

Best to give them a ring.

[Burgiesburnin]

I'm not sure where to ask this question but here goes...

 

Are there any hire companies that hire out privately owned boats? The reason I ask this is that I would like to buy a boat but only wish/need to use it out of the main season. It would be good if the boat could provide revenue when I am not using it instead of just 'waiting' for me.

 

I would not have the time or support facilities to hire out the boat myself which is why I ask. I accept that the hire company would of course need to profit from this.

 

Is it done? Any advice or recommendations would be gratefully received

 

Many thanks

 

Chox

 

This is a very brave question to ask on the forum. It has been asked in various forms several times and generally people are attacked for asking. I wore a red shirt for weeks so that the blood didn't show.

However, the forum has grown a bit since then and people are more likely to shut up than attack an unwilling sacrifice.

 

If I knew how to do it I would attach a link to my almost identical question.

Please look for previous content and you will see what I mean and get some valuable info also on the subject.

[Chox]

Kate Boats http://www.kateboats.co.uk/ have some private boats in their hire fleet They are in Kate Boats livery though.

 

Best to give them a ring.

 

Thanks Ray T

 

This is a very brave question to ask on the forum. It has been asked in various forms several times and generally people are attacked for asking. I wore a red shirt for weeks so that the blood didn't show.

However, the forum has grown a bit since then and people are more likely to shut up than attack an unwilling sacrifice.

 

If I knew how to do it I would attach a link to my almost identical question.

Please look for previous content and you will see what I mean and get some valuable info also on the subject.

 

Thanks Burgiesburnin, you are right and I had wondered (still do) if I'd get a roasting. However, as my dad taught me, 'if you don't ask, you don't get'. Guess I'm big enough and ugly enough

 

Cheers

 

Chox

[Davidss]

OK, you have yet to buy a boat, so ...

The way this worked in the past was that you bought a new hire boat, ostensibly as an investment. The boatyard running the boat did all the work involved in hiring the boat to all and sundry. You booked whatever weeks you wanted in the same way as any hirer. At the end of the agreed period the boatyard took your boat off the fleet, and you become responsible for what happens next.

 

Sounds simple, but ...

Hire boats normally have a different design to private boats, both in terms of layout (number of bunks etc) and in terms of equipment (Dual water pumps, small domestic battery bank <as the engine can be expected to run every day>).

If you search on the forum you will see several people think that second hand hire boats make good private boats, but they generally require some modification.

Of course, when you want to use the boat privately during its hire life you have to 'put up with' the hiring design compromise.

 

The other point is that when you reserve your private weeks you are reducing your income, AND that of the boatyard. They won't be too happy about you reserving prime weeks for private use.

 

There may be other points, but that's my 'starter for 10'.

I wrote "ostensibly as an investment". You may not get a good return, or any return at all, but you might keep your costs of ownership down, compared to actually having it moored idle for 50 weeks of the year.

 

HTH

Edited March 26, 2012 by Davidss

[Alan de Enfield]

I think much of the 'flack' has been aimed at those who ask "can I hire my boat out" to which they are told of the problems (commercial licence, commercial insurance, commercial BSS etc)

 

This seems to be a totally different question and one assumes that the OP is looking for the 'hire company' to take all the 'problems' of the paperwork etc as he states :

 

"I would not have the time or support facilities to hire out the boat myself"

 

I think (in the past) Middlewich Boats have also taken 'private boats' into their fleet.

[Chox]

OK, you have yet to buy a boat, so ...

The way this worked in the past was that you bought a new hire boat, ostensibly as an investment. The boatyard running the boat did all the work involved in hiring the boat to all and sundry. You booked whatever weeks you wanted in the same way as any hirer. At the end of the agreed period the boatyard took your boat off the fleet, and you become responsible for what happens next.

 

Sounds simple, but ...

Hire boats normally have a different design to private boats, both in terms of layout (number of bunks etc) and in terms of equipment (Dual water pumps, small domestic battery bank <as the engine can be expected to run every day>).

If you search on the forum you will see several people think that second hand hire boats make good private boats, but they generally require some modification.

Of course, when you want to use the boat privately during its hire life you have to 'put up with' the hiring design compromise.

 

The other point is that when you reserve your private weeks you are reducing your income, AND that of the boatyard. They won't be too happy about you reserving prime weeks for private use.

 

There may be other points, but that's my 'starter for 10'.

I wrote "ostensibly as an investment". You may not get a good return, or any return at all, but you might keep your costs of ownership down, compared to actually having it moored idle for 50 weeks of the year.

 

 

HTH

 

Davidss.....

 

Interesting stuff, I do agree with you too. My plan (if it gets that far) would be to buy a boat that is clearly designed for the hire market so I would of course have to accept the impact this will have on layout, fit, etc. I would not use it at all between April and September but would want to live on it and cruise continuously during the winter period.

 

Your remarks about the return on investment are a little worrying, are you suggesting that there will be very little profit? If that is really the case then I would have to re-think my strategy.

 

Many thanks for your advice

 

Regards

 

Chox

Edited March 26, 2012 by Chox

[RLWP]

I'm not sure where to ask this question but here goes...

 

Are there any hire companies that hire out privately owned boats? The reason I ask this is that I would like to buy a boat but only wish/need to use it out of the main season. It would be good if the boat could provide revenue when I am not using it instead of just 'waiting' for me.

 

I would not have the time or support facilities to hire out the boat myself which is why I ask. I accept that the hire company would of course need to profit from this.

 

Is it done? Any advice or recommendations would be gratefully received

 

Many thanks

 

Chox

 

There are hire boat companies that do this, I'm fairly sure that Tawny Owl was in this kind of arrangement when we bought her.

 

I guess you would have to 'phone around the different companies to find out. Tawny Owl was with Alvechurch

 

Richard

[Ray T]

OK, you have yet to buy a boat, so ...

The way this worked in the past was that you bought a new hire boat, ostensibly as an investment. The boatyard running the boat did all the work involved in hiring the boat to all and sundry. You booked whatever weeks you wanted in the same way as any hirer. At the end of the agreed period the boatyard took your boat off the fleet, and you become responsible for what happens next.

 

Sounds simple, but ...

Hire boats normally have a different design to private boats, both in terms of layout (number of bunks etc) and in terms of equipment (Dual water pumps, small domestic battery bank <as the engine can be expected to run every day>).

If you search on the forum you will see several people think that second hand hire boats make good private boats, but they generally require some modification.

Of course, when you want to use the boat privately during its hire life you have to 'put up with' the hiring design compromise.

 

The other point is that when you reserve your private weeks you are reducing your income, AND that of the boatyard. They won't be too happy about you reserving prime weeks for private use.

 

There may be other points, but that's my 'starter for 10'.

I wrote "ostensibly as an investment". You may not get a good return, or any return at all, but you might keep your costs of ownership down, compared to actually having it moored idle for 50 weeks of the year.

 

HTH

 

The OP actually stated out of main season use:

 

"The reason I ask this is that I would like to buy a boat but only wish/need to use it out of the main season"

 

Kate boats build boats too.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Ray T

[Chox]

I think much of the 'flack' has been aimed at those who ask "can I hire my boat out" to which they are told of the problems (commercial licence, commercial insurance, commercial BSS etc)

 

This seems to be a totally different question and one assumes that the OP is looking for the 'hire company' to take all the 'problems' of the paperwork etc as he states :

 

"I would not have the time or support facilities to hire out the boat myself"

 

I think (in the past) Middlewich Boats have also taken 'private boats' into their fleet.

 

Alan de Enfield......

 

Thanks, that's the very stuff I had in mind

 

Chox

Edited March 26, 2012 by Chox

[Guest]

This is a very brave question to ask on the forum. It has been asked in various forms several times and generally people are attacked for asking. I wore a red shirt for weeks so that the blood didn't show.

However, the forum has grown a bit since then and people are more likely to shut up than attack an unwilling sacrifice.

 

If I knew how to do it I would attach a link to my almost identical question.

Please look for previous content and you will see what I mean and get some valuable info also on the subject.

 

No they are not 'attacked' as you put it they are given sensible advice. As to the OP's actual question RayT in post #2 answered it...

[Chox]

Crikey! replies coming in thick and fast!

 

To save taking up too much 'screen space' I'll stop answering each post individually for a while.

 

Very many thanks to you all for such productive and helpful posts.

 

Kind regards

 

Chox

[Davidss]

Davidss.....

Your remarks about the return on investment are a little worrying, are you suggesting that there will be very little profit? If that is really the case then I would have to re-think my strategy.

My experience, via an older family member, is now out of date. I mentioned the 'little profit' so you would be aware of the possibility, and bring the topic up when discussing your plans with the 'professionals' you make the contract with.

A pertinent question might be to ask who pays for an new engine if one gets badly damaged, you, or the hire company (directly or via their insurers). Bear in mind that with a commercial hire boat, time is of the essence, so repair by replacement will be very attractive, because it's quick.

If the hire company sting you for the replacement costs your profit margin takes a hit.

The bulk of your income may come when you sell the boat after its two or three year hire life.

 

Remember this advice costs me nothing. For detail that applies now you need to speak to the current hire fleet operators. To speak to the ones my family dealt with you would need a spiritual medium, not an electronic one :-)

 

That said, I haven't changed my basic thought, that sponsoring a hire boat, with some personal use, is an interesting use of money, rather than a sound financial vehicle with a guaranteed positive return.

With the financial world as it is, a five year gamble may be worth taking.

See what the companies say, look for length of business rather than 'bright new opportunities'.

 

Good Luck.

[Albion]

My knowledge, taken from a hire fleet in France, is that the owner purchases a new boat (mainly new but I suppose there could be an opportunity for extending an otherwise end of hire life boat further) and places it in the fleet as a 'sponsored' boat. The boat is hired out as normal and the owner gets a percentage back from the hire fees and a guaranteed number of weeks per year usage. The boat is maintained, licensed and insured by the hire fleet. In theory, at the end of the sponsor period, the boat is returned to you in maintained and good condition (possibly repainted but that depends on the specific agreement conditions). The downside is that you are laying out a lot of money at the beginning and, depending on your feelings about your pride and joy, you may be heartbroken about the condition of the boat after many seasons of hard hire use. For example, in the fleet I am thinking of some hirers had decided it might be a good idea to have a fireworks display and set them off..............inside the boat!!!!

My guess is that a sponsored boat in a UK fleet would be operated in a similar fashion.

Roger

[haggis]

A friend of ours who does not live in the UK, has an "arrangement" with Claymore Navigation which allows her to use the boat for about a month or so every year and they hire it out for the rest of the time. Not sure what the financial arangements are but is allows our friend to boat every year on a boat she knows and loves and I think she also gets some income from it. So, to answer your original question is looks possible and it would be a case of speaking to hire companies to see what sort of arrangement you could come to .

haggis

[jelunga]

Davidss.....

 

Interesting stuff, I do agree with you too. My plan (if it gets that far) would be to buy a boat that is clearly designed for the hire market so I would of course have to accept the impact this will have on layout, fit, etc. I would not use it at all between April and September but would want to live on it and cruise continuously during the winter period.

 

Your remarks about the return on investment are a little worrying, are you suggesting that there will be very little profit? If that is really the case then I would have to re-think my strategy.

 

Many thanks for your advice

 

Regards

 

Chox

My personal view is that any boat designed for the hire market would be most unsuitable as a ccer and liveaboard.

Hire boats need to squeeze in as many bodies per foot as possible. Minimal storage space, simple idiot proof operation and with not too big water tanks. Toilet will be a dump through pump out in most cases.

For a personal boat for 1 person you need max storage space, large water tank and fuel tank, economical heating systems and good electrics. A washing machine and a microwave are a plus as would be a large battery bank and inverter. Again, in my view the two uses are fatally conflicting.

When we bought our boat we did look at some ex hirers. None came anywhere near to having what we needed to live on them full time.

I am sure somebody will be along soon to prove me wrong

[RLWP]

When we use Tawny Owl, there are two of us rattling around in a well planned space for twelve. I can assure you there is no lack of storage space.

 

Richard

[Bigmac]

Have a look at the sponsored boat scheme operated by Aqua Narrowboats. It might be of use to you ???

 

http://aquanarrowboats.co.uk/boat-sponsorship

[Graham Davis]

Don't Black Prince do a "sponsership" scheme?

[Morat]

Having just entered into just such a scheme, I can say that this is by no means a rare arrangement. I checked around several hire fleets and they all had sponsored boats within the fleet and there's a standard contract (like the standard boat building contract) that forms the basis of the agreement in every company I asked. There are variations, some companies have varied the contract more than others. As for returns, I found a remarkably consistent return of 30-40% of the net annual hire revenue coming back to the owner and a five year agreement. The devil is in the detail with some fleets asking to share the fuel costs, some offering a free paint job at the end of the agreement, and quite a variation in the way that companies expect major repairs to be handled. You'll have to ask around.

 

What I will say is that you're unlikely to get your existing boat into a fleet unless it is suitable for the fleet in question. The sensible operators have as many parts in common as possible so that they don't have to hold a ridiculous number of spares. So, you're very unlikely to get a 3 berth 70ft trad with a semi-diesel into a hire fleet because it just wouldn't make any money. On the other hand you will get a solid boat with good equipment and if you're not going to live aboard, a hire boat should fit your needs very well. Of course, companies that build/fit out boats are very keen to supply you with the boat in the first place but they're not the only ones out there.

[Ray T]

Just had a thought, Chox. You mentioned that the majority of cruising you planned to do would be in Winter.

 

You may want to consider the style of stern you want. A cruiser stern, which the majority of hire boats have, can be a cold and miserable place in winter, especially if it is hissing it down.

 

Whilst a trad stern provides most protection on a NB a semi trad may be a compromise as some hire boats have them. It will depend upon you and the fleet owner.

[RichardH]

Perfectly reasonable question.

 

We do exactly what you are talking about - one of our boats returns to its 'home' mooring for the winter and its owner enjoys time out in front of the stove.

 

Talk to the hire companies. The difficulty might be achieving a boat which you both want.

 

Don't just go and buy a boat then have the discussion though - you will find it difficult to achieve the perfect fit with a business partner.

 

Happy to offer advice on this subject as it is commonplace in the industry.

[Jo_]

I was going to suggest Aqua Narrowboats and I see BigMac has done so. Talk to Justin - he's very good and knows his stuff.

[Teadaemon]

I (sometimes) work for a yard on the Norfolk Broads that has privately owned boats in the fleet, so I can give you some information as to how we do it, and suggest a few areas to watch out for.

 

As has been mentioned, the normal arrangement is that you buy the boat, the yard looks after it, pays the bills, and hires it out, and you then take a cut of the net profits (IIRC, our owners take 35%). You need to know exactly what comes out of the gross profit, and what comes out of the yard's cut (insurance is one cost that may or may not be applied on a boat by boat basis, as most yards have one policy that covers their fleet, so it may not be easy to apply a figure to each boat in the fleet). You also need to know what happens if a boat makes a loss over the course of a year (are you liable for a share of the losses at the end of the year?) Our owners don't use their boats very much, having bought them mainly as an investment.

 

On the Broads, if a boat is hired out for 20 weeks a year then it's doing pretty well - roughly half of that will be at or near peak rate, the rest at some discount of that. As you want to use the boat yourself for a fair proportion of the year, you may not realise that figure, though as you want it in the winter any shortfall is likely to be in the off peak weeks. The UK hire boat industry isn't the most reliable of businesses, recently 2010 was a very good year (lots of European visitors due to a high Euro, an Icelandic volcano that brought in a noticeable amount of business, etc), 2011 was ok but nothing special, and so far 2012 looks like having high demand for the peak periods but a bit patchy outside them. Outside factors like drought restrictions, Foot & Mouth, etc can wreck a year's business. Also if the boat were to sink or burn and require a refit, then while insurance should cover the cost of fixing it, it won't cover consequential losses from lost bookings. Wear and tear on hire boats is a lot greater than private boats. Engines may need servicing two or three times a year, battery banks get abused by people used to having limitless electricity, dents and scrapes will appear more often than you'd like (one of our local yards has been building their own new class of top spec 44 foot cruisers, sent one out for the first time at Easter last year and by Whitsun it was spotted by a friend of mine going back to base with a 2 foot square hole just above the waterline).

 

If you still want to go ahead, then you'll need to find a yard, and ask them what they're prepared to have in their fleet. Most yards try to standardise their boats as it's easier to run a fleet that way (if one boat has a problem but a sister vessel isn't booked then you just swap the customers over), and it's easier to market them. It might be possible to slightly customise a boat if the changes are confined to areas that aren't apparent to a hirer (e.g. a larger domestic battery bank). There are yards that may be happy to run something a bit different, but I suspect you'll need to look for the smaller niche operators, and consult carefully with them as to what they are or are not prepared to do.

 

If you still want to do this then good luck, I may have come across as a bit negative, but that's because hiring boats isn't as easy as some people think, and I'd rather you thought about it before you do anything than you go ahead and find yourself in a situation you don't want to be in.

[Burgiesburnin]

No they are not 'attacked' as you put it they are given sensible advice. As to the OP's actual question RayT in post #2 answered it...

 

As I said, I thought that the site had grown a bit since the last time this type of question was asked and the author of the post at that time [me] was very definatly "attacked" in several of the responces.

 

I have noticed recently that members are not "attacked" with the same petty venum that they have been previously, no doubt many people would have also noticed the great reduction in the amount of posts that start with an apology for the question to be asked. ie "i hope that this isnt a silly question but....."