Fridges

[ditchcrawler]

This boat has a 12v fridge which is ok but the internal space is not good though only draws 3.5 amps when running.

Just for comparison I have a Lec 240 volt fridge which I think is the same body as Shoreline and it draws 3.5 Amps from my 24 volt system, so that is twice what your 12 volt one pulls.

[Rebotco]

Several possibilities. Power is getting to the fridge, otherwise there would be no red light flashing.

Question is whether there's enough power. Are your batteries very low? Try again after you've run the engine for several hours.

 

Second, could be a faulty (open circuit) thermostat. Have you tried rotating the thermostat knob a few times? If that doesn't help, you should be able to remove the thermostat and connect the two wires together. If it then runs the compressor, then you know the thermostat needs replacing.

 

If batteries and thermostat faults are eliminated, there remain other less likely possibilities.

1. The compressor has seized up.

2. The start relay/overload protector attached to the compressor is knackered.

3. If you have ill-advisedly turned the fridge upside down, this can block the capillary tube with oil and cause a

wax blockage.

Sometimes this can clear itself when left the right way up for a day or two. Other times it can't.

 

I would discount loss of refrigerant gas as this would not stop the compressor from running.

 

All these things can be repaired economically, except a compressor change.

 

 

From the information Tony Brooks has found, it is pretty certain that item no.2 above is the problem. It is economically viable to replace the relay/overload unit.

[Tony Brooks]

From the information Tony Brooks has found, it is pretty certain that item no.2 above is the problem. It is economically viable to replace the relay/overload unit.

 

 

Not read the whole thread but I would want to make sure the ventilation at the back of the fridge is in excess of the recommendations and that no bright spark has fitted the fridge "back onto" a stove with little thermal insulation between.

[Circe]

We've tried most of this now. Going to look into buying a new relay/overload unit in the hope that it's that.

 

Thank you SO much for all the help with this. It's been incredibly useful. Keep your fingers crossed that we can get it going again

[J R]

This is probably a really stupid question, but hopefully someone will put me on the right track

 

We have a 12v fridge that seems to have died on us. The light's working inside, but it's not cooling anything any more. We've tried a couple of things, but it looks like the compressor has failed.

 

We've got 3 options, I think, although would welcome other ideas - either get the compressor fixed/replaced or buy a new fridge (not much difference in price between the two from what I can see)

 

OR (and this is what I need your advice on) - upgrade the boat's domestic battery bank and run a normal household fridge on the boat.

 

Ideally I want an as-cheap-as-possible solution that'll be practical for us. We do need some sort of fridge as we're planning on a 6 week cruise this summer, but I don't know if the battery/domestic fridge idea would work. I'm still a relative newbie as far as having my own boat goes, so may well be talking nonsense! We've currently got 3 batteries but there's space for 5 alongside each other.

 

What do you think? What would you recommend we do? (And thanks in advance for any help!)

 

Might be a good idea to get a refridgeation engineer to see if it needs regassing; cheaper than buying a new one.

 

There is a large hire boat co who are replacing their 12v fridges with 'Fridgemaster Islanders' units which come in cheaper than Shoreline and seem very similar. Have no experience of them, but it is an option if you go down the 12v route.

 

 

ONLY posted the last two paragraphs. Did NOT break into the quoted post. JR

Edited March 18, 2012 by J R

[J R]

ONLY posted the last two paragraphs. Did NOT break into the quoted post. JR

 

OK.Trying again.

 

It may be a good idea to get a fridge engineer in to check if the unit needs to be regassed. This is a fairly common event in fridge failures. Would also suggest that you go down the 12v route if you can.

 

There is a large hire boat company that are replacing, when needed, their 12v fridges with 'Fridgemaster Inlanders' which seem to be similar and are cheaper. Cheapest is not always best. The company can be found via an interweb search engine.

 

ps: Hope this is posted correctly!! in the right place.

[Colin Smith]

 

....... it only uses 3.5 amps BUT my last boat with mastervolt inverter and mains fridge only used 4.2 amps and mains fridges are so much easier and cheaper to source.

 

Tesco are offering this: A+ fridge for £79.97.

 

They quote 113 kWh per year consumption (240v). Two things spring to mind: Firstly, what would that consumption figure actually be if it was running through an inverter and equipped with cooling fans etc. and secondly, at about £250 for a Danfoss 12v compressor/electronics to convert it, you could have a 'new' 12v fridge for around £320 - almost half the cost of a Shoreline or similar!

 

Colin

[ditchcrawler]

Tesco are offering this: A+ fridge for £79.97.

 

They quote 113 kWh per year consumption (240v). Two things spring to mind: Firstly, what would that consumption figure actually be if it was running through an inverter and equipped with cooling fans etc. and secondly, at about £250 for a Danfoss 12v compressor/electronics to convert it, you could have a 'new' 12v fridge for around £320 - almost half the cost of a Shoreline or similar!

 

Colin

When I started fitting out my boat LEC sold 12 volt fridges direct to the public at that sort of discount. By the time I was ready to fit it you could only get them through Shoreline and you know that price. I would suggest a good refrigeration company should be able to repair the OPs for them.

[bizzard]

Where's Quo Vadis he was the fridge expert.

[Rebotco]

Tesco are offering this: A+ fridge for £79.97.

 

They quote 113 kWh per year consumption (240v). Two things spring to mind: Firstly, what would that consumption figure actually be if it was running through an inverter and equipped with cooling fans etc. and secondly, at about £250 for a Danfoss 12v compressor/electronics to convert it, you could have a 'new' 12v fridge for around £320 - almost half the cost of a Shoreline or similar!

 

Colin

 

I really cannot see how anyone except a refrigeration engineer could possibly convert 240v t0 12v by changing the compressor.

 

For a start you would need oxyacetelyne welding equipment and skills, a refrigeration quality vacuum pump, access and

 

knowledge of refrigerant gases and method of measurement. And that's just for starters. It may be that a 12v compressor

 

costs £250, but that is only half the story. Being able to fit it is quite another. I wouldn't even consider that as a

 

viable option.

[Colin Smith]

I really cannot see how anyone except a refrigeration engineer could possibly convert 240v t0 12v by changing the compressor.

 

For a start you would need oxyacetelyne welding equipment and skills, a refrigeration quality vacuum pump, access and

 

knowledge of refrigerant gases and method of measurement. And that's just for starters. It may be that a 12v compressor

 

costs £250, but that is only half the story. Being able to fit it is quite another. I wouldn't even consider that as a

 

viable option.

 

It was just a quick look but my understanding is that the kit I mentioned included the bits: DANFOSS 12V-24V DC COMPRESSOR, REFRIGERANT, DANFOSS 12V-24V ELECTRONIC BOX. I'm sure that it wouldn't be a simple swap out but surely must be within the capacity of someone wit the right gear? Maybe not, I don't really know - it was just a thought!

Anyway, with the consumption figures quoted at 240v, running one off an inverter must be getting nearer to a 12v fridge?

 

Colin

[bizzard]

It was just a quick look but my understanding is that the kit I mentioned included the bits: DANFOSS 12V-24V DC COMPRESSOR, REFRIGERANT, DANFOSS 12V-24V ELECTRONIC BOX. I'm sure that it wouldn't be a simple swap out but surely must be within the capacity of someone wit the right gear? Maybe not, I don't really know - it was just a thought!

Anyway, with the consumption figures quoted at 240v, running one off an inverter must be getting nearer to a 12v fridge?

 

Colin

Danfos units could be bought separately as advertised in Waterways world years ago. All you had to do was supply your own cabinet or make one say out of an old tea chest.

[Rebotco]

It was just a quick look but my understanding is that the kit I mentioned included the bits: DANFOSS 12V-24V DC COMPRESSOR, REFRIGERANT, DANFOSS 12V-24V ELECTRONIC BOX. I'm sure that it wouldn't be a simple swap out but surely must be within the capacity of someone wit the right gear? Maybe not, I don't really know - it was just a thought!

Anyway, with the consumption figures quoted at 240v, running one off an inverter must be getting nearer to a 12v fridge?

 

Colin

 

Wasn't getting at you, Colin - just pointing out there's rather more to changing any compressor than buying the parts. I have

 

been in refrigeration engineering (but not 12v systems) most my life, and I would not attempt it! I have the knowledge, but

 

being retired, no longer have the specialist equipment.

 

In any case I think the OP's problem has already been solved. It seems to be the electronic relay/overload that is faulty,

 

and that can be replaced quite easily.

[Circe]

 

In any case I think the OP's problem has already been solved. It seems to be the electronic relay/overload that is faulty,

 

and that can be replaced quite easily.

 

We hope so. Will let you all know if that does the trick - if not, we'll probably have to buy another one.

 

Can cold cause problems? We turned the fridge back on before the boat was fully warmed through last month. I'm guessing really, but if it's something we've done, I don't want to kill another fridge next winter!

[bowten]

If you change to using a 240v fridge, you will almost certainly find that you use somewhere between 1.5 to 2.5 times as much power from the battery as you would with a 12v fridge, depending upon the quality (and price) of the fridge and of the inverter.

 

This translates into needing to charge the batteries more frequently and/or for longer. It is not unreasonable to count a 12v fridge as needing half a battery's worth of energy per day, and a 240v one as taking one battery's worth of energy per day. This translates into more fuel cost and more battery cost (buying more batteries or buying them more often). Add in the cost of the inverter - most fridges need a big inverter to get them started - and the 12v option is overall usually better and cheaper despite the cost of the fridge.

 

Do Shoreline offer any sort of repair service themselves, or have any franchised repairers?

Hi there,this is only my 2nd post so I would like to say hello to everyone.I remember reading an article in one of the canal magazines several years ago where they had tested 12volt fridges against 240volt and an inverter,they ran the test over several weeks and came to the conclusion that there was very little difference in battery usage and if you were already using an inverter it would make sense to buy a 240 volt fridge.Regards Ian

[Keeping Up]

Tesco are offering this: A+ fridge for £79.97.

 

They quote 113 kWh per year consumption (240v). Two things spring to mind: Firstly, what would that consumption figure actually be if it was running through an inverter and equipped with cooling fans etc. and secondly, at about £250 for a Danfoss 12v compressor/electronics to convert it, you could have a 'new' 12v fridge for around £320 - almost half the cost of a Shoreline or similar!

 

Colin

 

That works out at about 0.3 kWh per day, add 10% for the inverter (assuming EITHER that you were going to leave the inverter on 24x7 anyway, OR that the inverter is turned off when the fridge doesn't want to use the compressor) making 0.33 kWh per day which is about 30% higher than the nearest equivalent Shoreline that I can see.

[Colin Smith]

Wasn't getting at you, Colin - just pointing out there's rather more to changing any compressor than buying the parts. I have

 

been in refrigeration engineering (but not 12v systems) most my life, and I would not attempt it! I have the knowledge, but

 

being retired, no longer have the specialist equipment.

 

In any case I think the OP's problem has already been solved. It seems to be the electronic relay/overload that is faulty,

 

and that can be replaced quite easily.

 

Hi Brian,

 

I'm sure you weren't and I thank you for your comments. My knowledge is sadly lacking when it comes to refridgeration as you can probably tell! Bit of wishfull thinking on my part I think!

 

Colin

[Colin Smith]

That works out at about 0.3 kWh per day, add 10% for the inverter (assuming EITHER that you were going to leave the inverter on 24x7 anyway, OR that the inverter is turned off when the fridge doesn't want to use the compressor) making 0.33 kWh per day which is about 30% higher than the nearest equivalent Shoreline that I can see.

 

Ah well, more wishful thinking on my part....I guess I'm just going to have to fork out for a decent 12v fridge!

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Colin

[jakub]

Gas fridge?

[Ex- Member]

Hi there,this is only my 2nd post so I would like to say hello to everyone.I remember reading an article in one of the canal magazines several years ago where they had tested 12volt fridges against 240volt and an inverter,they ran the test over several weeks and came to the conclusion that there was very little difference in battery usage and if you were already using an inverter it would make sense to buy a 240 volt fridge.Regards Ian

 

I agree with that assessment, it's ok quoting the figures which which I can wholly accept. However on looking at many 12 volt fridges I really wonder how efficient they really are, most I've seen seem much thinner in build and pretty poor build quality overall. A fridges power consumption might be easy to calculate, the quality and thickness of it's insulation though isn't. We have a 240 volt Bosch fridge A+ rated 117 KWH per year. The fridge is to us a very clever design with slide out drawers this means the fridge door is a good 30/40 mm thick all over, where as many fridge doors are quite thin in the areas that store food or drinks.

 

 

The quality of a fridges manufacture must also have a bearing on it's efficiency.

 

 

[Phil Ambrose]

Hi there,this is only my 2nd post so I would like to say hello to everyone.I remember reading an article in one of the canal magazines several years ago where they had tested 12volt fridges against 240volt and an inverter,they ran the test over several weeks and came to the conclusion that there was very little difference in battery usage and if you were already using an inverter it would make sense to buy a 240 volt fridge.Regards Ian

 

By involving a inverter it means there is the cost of an inverter to take into account plus it is just another bit of kit to worry about and to go wrong. 12volt under counter larder fridge (100ltr capacity) and a under counter 12volt freezer (80ltr capacity) is in my opinion the best way to go for us (live-aboard)

 

Phil

[Keeping Up]

I agree with that assessment, it's ok quoting the figures which which I can wholly accept. However on looking at many 12 volt fridges I really wonder how efficient they really are, most I've seen seem much thinner in build and pretty poor build quality overall. A fridges power consumption might be easy to calculate, the quality and thickness of it's insulation though isn't. We have a 240 volt Bosch fridge A+ rated 117 KWH per year. The fridge is to us a very clever design with slide out drawers this means the fridge door is a good 30/40 mm thick all over, where as many fridge doors are quite thin in the areas that store food or drinks.

 

 

The quality of a fridges manufacture must also have a bearing on it's efficiency.

 

 

 

On paper the 12v ones are more efficient. Certainly my experience - 0and several other Forum members have said the same, is that the 12v Shoreline fridges generally consume even LESS energy than their datasheets suggest.

[Robbo]

A recommendation for leisure users for any fridge is when coming to the boat with the fridge off, bring some of those cold packs from the freezer, this will help cool the fridge down and won't use as much power getting to temperature.

[bowten]

By involving a inverter it means there is the cost of an inverter to take into account plus it is just another bit of kit to worry about and to go wrong. 12volt under counter larder fridge (100ltr capacity) and a under counter 12volt freezer (80ltr capacity) is in my opinion the best way to go for us (live-aboard)

 

Phil

As I said,if you already have an inverter it makes sense to use a 240volt domestic fridge.

[Circe]

It's definitely dead.

 

New fridge has been ordered and we've gone for another 12v Shoreline one.

 

Thanks for all the help. It's really appreciated!