Boat Depreciation/Appreciation

[Circe]

It sounds like you're in the market to a similar NB to us. We bought a cracking little 1993 boat last summer - the survey on the hull etc showed that she was in excellent condition and we know we've got a seriously good buy. We need to do an external repaint (and the fridge died a couple of months ago) but other than that... *touches wood*

 

I would hope that the boat would more-or-less hold its value from here because of the price we bought her for. I've no intention of selling her, so in that sense it doesn't matter. We just fell in love with her, and couldn't be happier

 

The full survey is definitely sensible advice. We had some excellent help and advice from people here when we were going through the buying process. I suspect we'd not have got such a good deal without them!

[Machpoint005]

built my own 70' NB fitted myself, lived on for approx 6 years (owned for a few more) sold for around £2k more than it cost to build but paid out for moorings £2K a year for 5 years

 

No disrespect intended but when we were looking for the boat 5 years ago I came across a couple of 'self built' hulls - one of which had a very expensive fitout - but the quality of the shell was absolutely awful, with undulating cabin sides and visible joints between the steel plates. The other was of reasonable quality but was frankly ugly. That's the opposite of a 'reputable builder' - an engineering workshop with dwindling order books that fancies building a boat.

 

Yours, I'm sure, is brilliant.

 

However, the rule of thumb as I understand it is that a newbulld loses about half its value in ten years, and another quarter of the original value in another ten. After that it depends on how well it has been maintained. None of these numbers include any ownership costs. Rule of thumb there - between 50 and 100 quid a week for everything.

 

Just my opinion.

[Jackster]

Thanks for quick replies, very helpful.

[the grinch]

 

 

Yours, I'm sure, is brilliant.

 

 

 

it had its faults but steelwork was second to none just type in Narrowboat communicator in utube as the current owner has a couple of videos of her on there, funny enough have been emailing each other for a couple of days as he is interested in her early days

[Christianonthecut]

Buy wisely, enjoy your purchase and at the 20K end of the market most of the depreciating has already taken place.

[Witchword]

An old thread but I wondered if anyone's advice had changed?

 

Also, with a c.40K budget, would it be better to go lower (subject to a survey), around the 20-25K mark, and potentially spend some money to do any required work and maybe change the interior to my taste? Or go higher, as much as I can afford, and live with it as is? About the only piece of advice I've managed to get from RL people is to buy the newest boat I can afford- but some of the advice on here goes against that in terms of depreciation. Ideally I'd like to maintain the value of whatever I buy, but equally I don't want something which will need constant work.

[bottle]

An old thread but I wondered if anyone's advice had changed?

 

Also, with a c.40K budget, would it be better to go lower (subject to a survey), around the 20-25K mark, and potentially spend some money to do any required work and maybe change the interior to my taste? Or go higher, as much as I can afford, and live with it as is? About the only piece of advice I've managed to get from RL people is to buy the newest boat I can afford- but some of the advice on here goes against that in terms of depreciation. Ideally I'd like to maintain the value of whatever I buy, but equally I don't want something which will need constant work.

 

Witchword

 

First things first, welcome to the forum.

 

Now this may come across as a little harsh so apologies if you think this is so but sometimes the 'rosie' tint needs to be removed.

 

Look at all boats that your budget will buy, then choose the one that chooses you, then get it fully surveyed and have a contingency fund available for the unexpected because you can expect it to happen.

All boats depreciate but similar to cars as they get older the depreciation rate reduces, until they just have scrap value.

An excellent old boat with good pedigree can be a better buy.

 

As we all do.

 

Then do not buy a boat, all boats need constant care and maintenance sometimes a lot. Definition of BOAT: Bring Out Another Thousand

[Witchword]

 

Witchword

 

First things first, welcome to the forum.

 

Now this may come across as a little harsh so apologies if you think this is so but sometimes the 'rosie' tint needs to be removed.

 

Look at all boats that your budget will buy, then choose the one that chooses you, then get it fully surveyed and have a contingency fund available for the unexpected because you can expect it to happen.

All boats depreciate but similar to cars as they get older the depreciation rate reduces, until they just have scrap value.

An excellent old boat with good pedigree can be a better buy.

 

As we all do.

 

Then do not buy a boat, all boats need constant care and maintenance sometimes a lot. Definition of BOAT: Bring Out Another Thousand

Ah ok, thank you Keith but due to a housing situation that's just become VERY tricky, and being a part-time worker with a young child, a boat is really my only affordable and acceptable option. I will set aside money each month to pay for problems but just like a house with a boiler, locks, roof tiles and so on I suppose it's to be expected.

 

Choose the one that chooses you- well, I'm not sure I'll be able to afford her! I could've been chosen very easily on the weekend, saw a beautiful boat and had I been in the situation on Sunday that I am in right now, I would probably have offered a deposit on her then and there. Ah well, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I will keep on looking! Thanks for the frank advice, I need it.

[bottle]

Ah ok, thank you Keith but due to a housing situation that's just become VERY tricky, and being a part-time worker with a young child, a boat is really my only affordable and acceptable option. I will set aside money each month to pay for problems but just like a house with a boiler, locks, roof tiles and so on I suppose it's to be expected.

 

Choose the one that chooses you- well, I'm not sure I'll be able to afford her! I could've been chosen very easily on the weekend, saw a beautiful boat and had I been in the situation on Sunday that I am in right now, I would probably have offered a deposit on her then and there. Ah well, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I will keep on looking! Thanks for the frank advice, I need it.

 

Sorry again going to be harsh but, do not buy a boat if you think it an affordable option be very careful.

 

The only reason to buy a boat is because you want to live the life of a boater

 

Young child, part time job tends to mean you will need a permanent mooring, it is very difficult to keep within the guidelines of moving enough distance for a CCing (Continuous Cruising) declaration, moorings cost and residential moorings are like hens teeth. the cost (thousands) will vary depending on mooring and where it is in the country.

 

You will also need insurance.

 

So mooring fee, insurance, licence for a start, all variable depending on boat length mooring location.

 

Then there is the getting water, emptying the loo,

Edited February 10, 2016 by bottle

[Witchword]

I've been to the marina and looked at the costs of permanent mooring there, and compared to rent in the area it's cheap, even allowing for blacking and other maintenance. The work of emptying the loo and so on I think of as like doing the recycling, which is frankly a pita! Seriously, I'm in a high-cost area, the cheapest 2-bed flat I can find is in a not too nice area, no outside space, and it's well over the cost of the mooring, the electricity, the diesel, saving for maintenance, the licence and insurance all put together. On top of the rent there'd be council tax, utilities and so on and I would be paying double to live before I even put petrol in the car or food on our plates.

 

We are all-weather campers, not deterred by hard work and the outdoors, so that side of it doesn't phase me. But I just want to make sure that I get a sensible boat we can enjoy living on, and one which if I do move back onto land will be saleable, and if I don't will not cause me too many worries (all homes have their maintenance costs).

[Tuscan]

If you are buying as a cheap option for living as opposed to wanting to getting on the water you might be better off looking for accommodation in a cheaper part of the country. If you are buying a boat at the cheaper end of the market please get a survey.

[WotEver]

It'll all end in tears.

[Witchword]

If you are buying as a cheap option for living as opposed to wanting to getting on the water you might be better off looking for accommodation in a cheaper part of the country. If you are buying a boat at the cheaper end of the market please get a survey.

 

I would, but my daughter's dad lives near here and she needs to see him. She is also well settled in school and we have a lot of friends and family here. So, for the time being I will stay. A survey is on the list. Incidentally, if someone offers me a survey from last year or the year before that they had done when they bought the boat, would you say it's still worth getting a new one done?

 

 

It'll all end in tears.

 

Why? I am not going into this with my eyes shut and I'm doing as much research as I can.

[John V]

A (slightly) more positive view.

 

You seem to have your head screwed on better than a lot of the dreamers that come on here.

You obviously are prepared to put work into it both in research beforehand and based on your "all weather camper" comment, afterwards.

It can be a sensible (as opposed to cheap) option if it suits you (it certainly doesn't suit all) and it could end up being either a disaster or a wonderful lifestyle change.

This last bit is the important bit, it is a lifestyle with it's own collection of costs, aggravations and frustrations, it also has its own unique delights and pleasures. It is certainly not for everyone.

Keep your eyes (and ears) wide open, research, research, research. Be sure you want to change your lifestyle and good luck whatever you decide.

 

eta spelling

eta agin fer punchewashun

Edited February 11, 2016 by John V

[Tuscan]

I would, but my daughter's dad lives near here and she needs to see him. She is also well settled in school and we have a lot of friends and family here. So, for the time being I will stay. A survey is on the list. Incidentally, if someone offers me a survey from last year or the year before that they had done when they bought the boat, would you say it's still worth getting a new one done?

.

First I would have a chat with the marina you have identified and make sure that they are happy for you to live permanently there, assuming they are they may also be a useful source of advice. If the seller has a recent survey try contacting the surveyor and see if he would be prepared to update the survey at your expense - maybe ask him to look specifically at things that may effect the ability to live aboard permanently.

[WotEver]

On top of the rent there'd be council tax, utilities and so on

... just like on a boat on a residential mooring in a marina.

 

Utilities - no difference, only the delivery method changes.

Council Tax - if you have the mooring as your home address this may well be payable.

Blacking - not something you have to regularly do to a flat.

Engine maintenance - not something you have to do in a flat.

 

There's a reason that it's often joked that BOAT is an acronym for Bring Out Another Thousand and that the definition of a boat is "a hole in the water into which you throw money".

 

I wish you well in your venture but please ensure to be fully aware of the ongoing costs in advance.

 

Tony

[bottle]

Witchword

 

With reference to your post #35, all seems good and others have said the points I would have made.

 

So good luck.

 

If you find a boat come back with a link to the site it is on (start a new thread) and lots of comments will be made, some good and no doubt some bad but it will help you make a decision.

 

ps. it is refreshing to find someone that has thought and done research on 'boat living' before joining the forum.

[Witchword]

Thanks guys, I do appreciate all the comments and advice whether positive or negative, someone still may throw up an issue I haven't thought of. Even with all those specifically boat-related things, the number I have come up with looking at costs- all bills and savings for maintenance- comes in at over £100 less than the cheapest 2-bed flat I can find in the area, in not such a great area, with no outdoor space at all- and those people I've asked on the marina have said I have over- rather than under-estimated the expenses. It's a difference I can't discount and would mean I could stay out of my savings instead of living off them. So while I appreciate there will always be the unexpected, I don't think you can protect yourself against the unexpected wherever you live.

 

I'm making a list of boats to go and see, if they aren't local I need clusters of them to make a journey worthwhile!

 

However, there are two on the marina which I would value your comments on- I've sort of discounted them but I would be interested to hear if you think they're good boats, because if I could get them a bit cheaper than listed price I could afford some cosmetic work...

 

This one is a bit over budget...

 

and this one is a bit under, with the possibility of reducing further.

[magictime]

Thanks guys, I do appreciate all the comments and advice whether positive or negative, someone still may throw up an issue I haven't thought of. Even with all those specifically boat-related things, the number I have come up with looking at costs- all bills and savings for maintenance- comes in at over £100 less than the cheapest 2-bed flat I can find in the area, in not such a great area, with no outdoor space at all- and those people I've asked on the marina have said I have over- rather than under-estimated the expenses. It's a difference I can't discount and would mean I could stay out of my savings instead of living off them.

 

Is that £100 per week or per month? Anyway, what you're saying sounds entirely plausible to me. People tend to pour cold water on the idea that living aboard can offer a cheaper way of life than living in a rented flat, and of course it is important not to be naive about the foreseeable and less-foreseeable costs involved in living on and looking after a boat. But it really doesn't sound as if you're being naive about it, and given the ridiculous cost of renting a poky flat in some areas, I don't find it the least bit hard to believe that buying and living aboard a boat could be a far cheaper option in those areas.

 

I mean, even if utilities, council tax etc. cost the same either way, if it comes down to a choice between a £400-a-month mooring and a £1200-a-month rent - or a £300-a-month mooring and an £800-a-month rent, or whatever - there's no way that gap is going to be closed by specifically 'boaty' costs like blacking, engine servicing, unforeseen bits of maintenance, and even annual depreciation. Come on: do any of the people warning you about the high cost of boat ownership seriously spend £5,000 or £10,000 a year on their boats on top of mooring fees, fuel/utilities costs, etc.?

...plus you get to take as many more-or-less free cruising holidays a year as you can fit round school and work! That's how you should look at it - as a positive lifestyle change rather than a giving-up of living space for financial reasons.

Edited February 11, 2016 by magictime

[magictime]

Also, with a c.40K budget, would it be better to go lower (subject to a survey), around the 20-25K mark, and potentially spend some money to do any required work and maybe change the interior to my taste? Or go higher, as much as I can afford, and live with it as is?

 

On this particular question, I'd lean towards the latter. Our own experience with our boat was that those 'little' jobs adapting the interior soon add up, and with hindsight we'd certainly have been better off spending more up front on a more liveable-in boat, than buying a cheap boat as we did and getting the work done to make it more liveable-in. And if it's just a question of taste (rather than arrangement of living space etc.), you can transform a boat's interior for pennies (well - £100s) with new curtains, throws, cushions and whatnot, and maybe a tin of paint. So if you can, I'd go for a boat that's practical in terms of equipment, storage, living space etc. and in as good condition as you can afford.

[bottle]

Taking the prices and you saying over/under budget you could get the first one for your budget, . boats are like houses in that respect the asking price is the beginning of negotiation.

 

The first one is 'trad' stern and the second cruiser that is down to personal choice but it is generally thought that a 'trad' is better for live aboard.

The first one is also 3' longer, 3' in a boat is a lot of room.

 

The first one was built in Gloucester by the look of it, by a company that is not known for boat building, does not mean it is bad.

The engine has not been used in 7 years, if the hours stated are true and not a misprint, not even run in or reached its first service interval. As long as the oil has been changed every year (minimum) then it may be OK.

 

Second one not quite so well 'speced' and is 10 years older.

 

As to price for each of them, sorry not my 'speciality' hopefully others will pop in that know more.

 

Personal choice for me would be the first

[Witchword]

Ah that's interesting about the engine. Not knowing what it means I sort of scan over the details of the engine, but I understand they're good for something like 10000 hours and so it's something to be aware of if looking at a boat which has cruised constantly; however the hull is likely to be more corroded if the boat never cruises and is linked to electric hookup, is that right?

 

Yes, I saw both boats on the same day and in all honesty the first one didn't feel like somewhere I could live. I like the idea of cruiser stern because of a bit of outside space for my herbs and to eat out on a nice day- is trad stern thought to be better because of the space? We also have wellies and walking boots, waterproofs etc which need a home and i thought the cruiser stern might provide this...

[bottle]

Ah that's interesting about the engine. Not knowing what it means I sort of scan over the details of the engine, but I understand they're good for something like 10000 hours It all depends on the servicing a small hours engine (as this one is) can be more of a problem especially if it has not been serviced and so it's something to be aware of if looking at a boat which has cruised constantly; however the hull is likely to be more corroded if the boat never cruises and is linked to electric hookup, is that right? Yes and no, if all the correct protection (electrical) is in place then there will /should not be a problem, Survey will tell.

 

Yes, I saw both boats on the same day and in all honesty the first one didn't feel like somewhere I could live. So not the boat for you, pick a boat that you fall in love with but then get the brain in to gear and drive a hard bargain, Don't think you will have problem wit that. like the idea of cruiser stern because of a bit of outside space for my herbs and to eat out on a nice day- is trad stern thought to be better because of the space? Simple answer Yes, that is where personal choice, lifestyle come in.We also have wellies and walking boots, waterproofs etc which need a home and i thought the cruiser stern might provide this...It would.

[cuthound]

Not running an engine for 7 years can be very bad for them, particularly if it has not had the oil changed or been periodically turned over.

 

Potential issues are bearings flattened by the weight of the crank and internal corrosion.

 

If I were considering that boat, I could get an engineer with an endoscope to look at it for signs of internal corrosion. To check for bearing damage may require the engine to be removed (depends on type and if the sump can be removed in situ).

 

However this can be a good negotiating point, so maybe possible to get the price lowered enough to take any potential repairs into account.

[magictime]

I like the idea of cruiser stern because of a bit of outside space for my herbs and to eat out on a nice day- is trad stern thought to be better because of the space?

 

That seems to be the general assumption, but as I understand it (not having much direct experience of different boat types), the extra internal space in a boat with a trad stern isn't full-height cabin space, but a little room with the engine boxed in under a platform leading down from the back deck. That sort of space, though, might well be better for wellies etc. than an outside deck. There's also the semi-trad option, of course, which would give you the flexibility of outdoor space on a nice day plus under-cover storage for wellies and whatnot.