Last Will & Testicle

[ex-member200218]

Hello peeps. Our questions are; what happens if one part of an unmarried couple (who own a narrow boat between them of course) dies? For example, who is entitled to the other arf's 'arf of the boat? What do we receive in the way of paperwork when we finally pay for our narrow boat? i.e. does it have the equivalent of 'house deeds'?

Edited February 16, 2012 by Dragonboat

[matty40s]

Hello peeps. Our questions are; what happens if one part of an unmarried couple (who own a narrow boat between them of course) dies? For example, who is entitled to the other arf's 'arf of the boat? What do we receive in the way of paperwork when we finally pay for our narrow boat? i.e. does it have the equivalent of 'house deeds'?

 

....have you hit him with the windlass yet???

 

ok,no, good

 

If you have a boat mortgage, they are not technically mortgages but Chattel loans, something I was not aware of when I first took out the mortgage, but am now.

Therefore if the loan is paid up, nothing happens. The boat is yours, and if in joint names is both of yours.

There are no deeds a such, which is why when you buy a boat, 6 years noted records of all related financial transactions are so important.

 

I would suggest making a will is a good idea whether you are renting, buying a house or boat or anything.

Then at least you know that what you want to happen will happen.

Otherwise someone might make it difficult and argue afterwards.

[Guest]

Wot Matt said...

 

especially the will bit...

[ditchcrawler]

Hello peeps. Our questions are; what happens if one part of an unmarried couple (who own a narrow boat between them of course) dies? For example, who is entitled to the other arf's 'arf of the boat? What do we receive in the way of paperwork when we finally pay for our narrow boat? i.e. does it have the equivalent of 'house deeds'?

I would suggest on the Bill of Sale when you buy the boat you have both names to show its in joint ownership.

The next thing is what have you done about the rest of your possessions for when you die. If you leave everything to the local Cats Home then they would have half the boat, where as if you have left it all to your partner then they would get the other half as well.

If you have a partner who you are not married to or in a civel partnership then you need to take great care drawing up a will.

[saltysplash]

You can use the MCA's bill of sale document to indicate how many shares each of you have in the boat.

 

 

You dont have to use the MCA form, you can draft up your own version.

 

copied and pasted from a legal site

 

Under English law there are 64 shares in a ship. It is possible to transfer any or all of those

shares to a third party for a valuable consideration. It is possible to own a vessel jointly and

there are two methods of joint ownership of a vessel.

Firstly, it is possible for two or more people to each own individually so many of the 64

shares in a ship. Thus there are a number of owners of the shares whose total shareholding

will amount to 64 shares. Such owners are known as tenants in common and they are each

free to dispose of their shares as they see fit. Furthermore, upon their death their shares in

the vessel will be dealt with in accordance with the provisions of their will or intestacy.

Alternatively it is possible for two or more persons to jointly own a share or shares in a ship.

Such owners are known as joint owners and they must act together in any dealings with

those shares. Furthermore, on the death of any joint owner the ownership of that deceased

joint owner's share will automatically vest in the co-joint owner in respect of any will or

intestacy.

 

 

 

eta make sure it shows you are both Joint Owners

Edited February 16, 2012 by saltysplash

[Arthur Brown]

It's probably a good plan to get the will drawn up professionally. Including consideration for either party to become too infirm to continue living aboard.

[Woodstock]

I really would reccomend having a will drawn up- We aren't married and were shocked a few years ago at how complex things can get if you're not married and one person dies and even more complicated if both die at the same time. The HSBC did an offer a few years ago with a free will writing service- not sure if anyone is currently offering a similar service.

 

The will takes away some of the bureacracy during what is always a difficult time

[Dyertribe]

I really would reccomend having a will drawn up- We aren't married and were shocked a few years ago at how complex things can get if you're not married and one person dies and even more complicated if both die at the same time. The HSBC did an offer a few years ago with a free will writing service- not sure if anyone is currently offering a similar service.

 

The will takes away some of the bureacracy during what is always a difficult time

Firstly can I say that I have an interest in this area as my husband has a Will writing and estate planning business however I am not touting for business, just passing on information.

 

Be very wary of "free" will writing services, as they say there is no such thing as a free lunch and you will find that most of these free wills include the writer(bank, etc) as executors. This is not generosity on their part as they will charge anything from 1% to 5% of the estate for the privilege. As in most cases family members and/or friends who are executors rarely charge anything this is money that would be better off with your loved ones and is usually much more than the cost of getting a will written.

 

Another thing to consider with a will and the boating life is storage of the document, im sure i dont have to spell out the problems with storing ths type of document on board or in friends or relatives homes. It is possible to get secure lifetime storage for this and other important documents for around £50 one off fee. DO NOT store your will in a safety deposit box in the bank as once you die access to this will only be permitted on production of the probate document but probate can only be obtained with the original will document, a Catch 22 situation.

 

Sorry if I have bored you all to death, but it is info that we find a lot of people wish they had known!

 

Alyson

[ex-member200218]

Thank you, thank you, thank you... to all who have replied. There is some very useful and helpful advice here; not all of which was completely obvious. Again, thank you.

Chrissie & Steve

[Smelly]

Hello peeps. Our questions are; what happens if one part of an unmarried couple (who own a narrow boat between them of course) dies? For example, who is entitled to the other arf's 'arf of the boat? What do we receive in the way of paperwork when we finally pay for our narrow boat? i.e. does it have the equivalent of 'house deeds'?

 

 

 

If one party dies and the boat's in joint ownership (bill of sale or mortgage) then it defaults to the other owner whereas in sole ownership it gets complicated as a decision will need to be made as to whether the non contentious probate rules apply and if not a Judge will need to decide where the beneficial interest lies.

 

If you want a convo about the administration of estates act PM me however if it's in joint ownership on paper don't worry.

 

ETA if the boat's your sole asset!

Edited February 17, 2012 by Smelly

[Dr Bradley]

When my partner died, I had no rights whatsover and I was bitterly dissapointed at some of her daughter decisions. I really wished that we had got married so that I had a say in what happened next. Since her dying was a fairly long drawn out affair, i wrote her will and became the executer of the will. It's not that difficult if the affairs are reasonbly simple, but if you are sharing a boat you must do it. Not married, it all goes to the nearest relative, however distant they may be. If no relative, then to the government. I didn't lose anything, just had no say in things I would have wanted to be part of. There are only 2 options for you - write a will (each of you) or get married.

[Dyertribe]

When my partner died, I had no rights whatsover and I was bitterly dissapointed at some of her daughter decisions. I really wished that we had got married so that I had a say in what happened next. Since her dying was a fairly long drawn out affair, i wrote her will and became the executer of the will. It's not that difficult if the affairs are reasonbly simple, but if you are sharing a boat you must do it. Not married, it all goes to the nearest relative, however distant they may be. If no relative, then to the government. I didn't lose anything, just had no say in things I would have wanted to be part of. There are only 2 options for you - write a will (each of you) or get married.

You're right, it's only then you realise how powerful marriage is in giving you a say in your loved ones affairs

[Arthur Brown]

When my father died my mother had to present their marriage certificate to get the widow's pension due from his employer without that she would have been without money.

 

Remember that in a married couple you are the other's next of kin, if you are not officially married someone ELSE is their next of kin, who may have different interests from you. If they decide to cash in their share of the boat you have to find the money or sell up.

 

1/ get married -registrar is just as valid as a big ceremony

2/ Get decent wills made up leaving to each other as advised by a professional

3/ Both of the above.

 

Otherwise it WILL go pear shaped and one of you will find the real feelings of the other's more distant family.

[Mick and Maggie]

Tenants in Common is one of the ways to hold title, to own property by two or more individuals. Tenants in common can be between two or more persons who are related or who are unrelated. Husbands and wives can hold title as tenants in common. Ownership can be held in equal shares or unequal shares. Simple document that a solicitor can prepare and that you both sign and have witnessed. Often used by unmarried couples when purchasing a house but can apply to anything of value.

 

Make a will!

Edited February 18, 2012 by Mick and Maggie

[Dyertribe]

Tenants in Common is one of the ways to hold title, to own property by two or more individuals. Tenants in common can be between two or more persons who are related or who are unrelated. Husbands and wives can hold title as tenants in common. Ownership can be held in equal shares or unequal shares. Simple document that a solicitor can prepare and that you both sign and have witnessed. Often used by unmarried couples when purchasing a house but can apply to anything of value.

 

Make a will!

If the will puts the first deceased persons half into a Trust then the asset cannot be considered when assessing the second persons assets for funding of long term care later down the line(as the law stands at present) . Don't just sign that half over to your kids as so many people do as things over which they or you have no control ( divorce, bankruptcy etc) can rob you of the asset.

Please see my declared interest in my post above.

Alyson

[Chertsey]

You're right, it's only then you realise how powerful marriage is in giving you a say in your loved ones affairs

And them in yours!

[tillergirl]

A will is the only way to go............something we should attend to really................if I die and there's no will apart from the house which is joint names he gets nothing else and all 3 children inherit. If he dies and again apart form the house in joint names I get nothing and only one daughter gets to inherit. Although I do believe I have named him as beneficiary on my works pension as he has for me in his.

 

Having been widowed before and losing in laws 2 years ago I know how painful it can be to be "forgotten" when it comes to inheritance. Thankfully I am grown up enough to accept that my 2 daughters from my first marriage inherited sufficient to get them on the property ladder. Something that had been out of reach previously.

 

And yes I will practice what I preach................we will both get wills drawn up.

 

As for marriage - no thanks.................we're happy as we are at the moment.

[sueb]

The number of times I have heard 'I will get a will drawn up'. How long have you been together? You could die tomorrow. Being cheerful as usual Sue

[ditchcrawler]

The number of times I have heard 'I will get a will drawn up'. How long have you been together? You could die tomorrow. Being cheerful as usual Sue

But so true.

[tillergirl]

The number of times I have heard 'I will get a will drawn up'. How long have you been together? You could die tomorrow. Being cheerful as usual Sue

 

I think thats both me and dragonboat put in our places

 

 

 

[Dyertribe]

The number of times I have heard 'I will get a will drawn up'. How long have you been together? You could die tomorrow. Being cheerful as usual Sue

As my husband is in the business of will writing I cant tell you the number of times we hear "didn't get around to it" and end up doing rush appointments in hospitals or sadly telling spouses that dementia now precludes the loved one making a will.

Lasting power of attorney... That's a whole new thread

[carlt]

Lasting power of attorney... That's a whole new old thread

You are absolutely right:

 

Clicky

Edited February 18, 2012 by carlt

[Dyertribe]

You are absolutely right:

 

Clicky

Sorry about that, before mt time on the forum

[carlt]

Sorry about that, before mt time on the forum

No apology necessary.

 

It is an important subject that deserves a re-airing from time to time.

[ditchcrawler]

You are absolutely right:

 

Clicky

I set up an EPA for mum several years ago when it was much simpler. I needed to use it late last year so asked my solicitor to lodge it with the court so there were no slip ups, needless to say they cocked it up completely and mum died in December and it still is not completed and they have now sent a death certificate to the court to try to stop it. I wish I had done it all my self.