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VeeJay

Installing Morco D61B water heater

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Thanks

VeeJay

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Thanks

VeeJay

I believe it is firstly because the bathroom is a small room inside which you are likely to be enclosed while the heater is running, putting you at risk of asphyxiation, and secondly because the steamy atmosphere is bad for it.

 

I also have a sneaking feeling you might get away with it in a walk through bathroom.

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Thanks

VeeJay

We have a Morco installed in a bathroom and it's fine. My guess is the problem is ventilation: a bathroom is a small room, and naked wet people are averse to draughts. Our bathroom has a mushroom vent (marked "Do not cover") and grilles in both doors (it's walk-through).

It has passed the BSS no problems.

 

 

MP.

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I can't say as I know the answer but I would suspect it would relate to the size of the room from which it draws it's air for combustion. We had one in our boat in the kitchen area, and I have one in the motorhome . At no time did or has one set the CO alarm off.

 

I would thin you would be safe to do so as they are only on for a very short time, but I'm sure someone with the real knowledge will be along.

 

I may be wrong but don't they say not suitable for boats anyway although thee are probably 1000's of this and versions running trouble free out there.

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Not a balanced flue device and therefore should not be installed on a new build, but may be able to get away as a replacement for existing one!

Yes the problem is a conventional flued boiler must have a continous and adequate supply of fresh air and not operate in a confined space!

Don't you have a nice airing cupboard adjacent to the bathroom?

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Yes the problem is a conventional flued boiler must have a continous and adequate supply of fresh air and not operate in a confined space!

Don't you have a nice airing cupboard adjacent to the bathroom?

Is that meant to be tongue in cheek, Robin ?

 

Surely if a boat bathroom is not big enough a boat airing cupboard can almost guarantee not to be.

 

There is, incidentally, no longer anything in the BSS that prohibits the fitting of a new non balanced-flue water heater. It doesn't have to be a replacement of an existing one, (in BSS terms, at least).

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Is that meant to be tongue in cheek, Robin ?

 

Surely if a boat bathroom is not big enough a boat airing cupboard can almost guarantee not to be.

 

There is, incidentally, no longer anything in the BSS that prohibits the fitting of a new non balanced-flue water heater. It doesn't have to be a replacement of an existing one, (in BSS terms, at least).

 

 

I think they are a really safe any and effective way of making hot water. The fact thT you only have them on door a few minutes at most and that only while you are awake I think they are very safe especially when a CO meter is installed.

 

I think a lot of this bathroom business goes back to a time when Ascott heaters were responsible for a number of deaths in the 60's due to poor maintainable, now CO meters and town gas.

Edited by Biggles

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Is that meant to be tongue in cheek, Robin ?

 

Surely if a boat bathroom is not big enough a boat airing cupboard can almost guarantee not to be.

 

There is, incidentally, no longer anything in the BSS that prohibits the fitting of a new non balanced-flue water heater. It doesn't have to be a replacement of an existing one, (in BSS terms, at least).

It was a bit!

I had trouble when mine failed and parts were no longer available, but eventually solved it by obtaining a second hand one. Admittedly my BSC guide is a little out of date!

The examiner told me I could not install a new one?

You should not be able to get into an airing cupboard to get aphyxiated?

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I think it is probably a fair analysis to say that a good number of these things are installed in boat bathrooms, and provided properly installed, and maintained with adequate ventilation, that there has probably been no higher incidence of bad happenings with them there, than at any other place inside a boat, (but one can never actually get accurate data on such things unfortunately....)

 

I couldn't possibly say "go ahead - put it there" if the installation instructions say "don't", but that is where a lot of boats have them!

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Thanks

VeeJay

Why not phone them up and ask, (then tell us all...:))

 

cheers,

Pete.

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Why not phone them up and ask, (then tell us all...:))

 

cheers,

Pete.

Well! First of all I want to say thank you to everyone who has replied. I am so glad I found this site.

I took 'Smiley Pete's' advice and rang up Morco. A young lady there informed me that they cannot be installed in a bathroom because of IP regulations. I'm sorry to say that I think this is rubbish as IP regulations are to do with the dangers of high voltage (ie240v) equipment being installed in the vicinity of water. This does not apply to their water heater, but she was adamant that that was the reason.

I guess basically what most of you are saying is that it would be fine in the bathroom really, but if the BSS examiner wont allow it I'll be left with a 4" hole in the bathroom roof! I will start looking for another suitable location. Thanks again. VeeJay

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The manufacturers are playing safe. If a BSS examiner says it's ok, then go ahead, from a safety point of view. But if any parts fail the manufacturer will be able to wash their hands of responsibility by saying it was installed in an unsuitable environment.

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The much used "Electrolux" (later "Dometic") LPG fridges (either just LPG, or "three way"), never ever said they were suitable to install in a boat, and (I think) even laterly said they were not.

 

This didn't stop just about every hire boat, and most leisure narrow boat, being fitted with them for decades of course.

 

If you look at many things on your boats, (solid fuel stove, inset LPG hob, smoke detector, CO detector, etc - even the regulator and change-over valve in a typical gas locker), and actually closely study the supplied installation instructions, you will probably find the way they are installed fail on many points, (typically proximity to something!).

 

I'm not suggesting that you ignore installation instructions for anything - particularly items that can produce lethal gasses in the wrong circumstances, but the reality is that installation of many things on boats will have ignored supplied "instructions" to some degree in many cases.

 

As "Chertsey" says, this of course then allows the manufacturer of such equipment to dissociate themselves from any issue that does arise as a result.

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Well! First of all I want to say thank you to everyone who has replied. I am so glad I found this site.

I took 'Smiley Pete's' advice and rang up Morco. A young lady there informed me that they cannot be installed in a bathroom because of IP regulations. I'm sorry to say that I think this is rubbish as IP regulations are to do with the dangers of high voltage (ie240v) equipment being installed in the vicinity of water. This does not apply to their water heater, but she was adamant that that was the reason.

I guess basically what most of you are saying is that it would be fine in the bathroom really, but if the BSS examiner wont allow it I'll be left with a 4" hole in the bathroom roof! I will start looking for another suitable location. Thanks again. VeeJay

Sounds like the heater isn't designed to be splashed with water in any way. IP regulations deal with ingress protection for any equipment, not just electrical: (Wikepedia article)

 

If you want the last word on the BSS requirements and the guide is not clear enough, try emailing the BSS office, they're quite helpful. Then you can show their reply to the BSS examiner before they start.

 

Wherever you put it, I'd make sure there is a CO alarm (with display ideally) nearby. Personally I'd prefer it in a sheltered spot in a bathroom than in a bedroom.

 

cheers,

Pete.

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The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 do not allow installation of open flue appliances in bathrooms or bedrooms. The BSS may be ok with it. I doubt the PD 5482-3 2005 allows multipoint open flue water heaters in bathrooms but I don't have time to trawl through it to see.

 

The risk is CO poisoning. You are in the shower, the water heater is misbehaving in the same room as you but the other side of the steamed up shower screen and spilling CO in vast quantities into the room. You die. Simple!

 

There's no way I'd fit a Morco in MY shower room.

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...

You should not be able to get into an airing cupboard to get aphyxiated?

If you put it in a cupboard then it's ability to get enough oxygen will be reduced and carbon monoxide gas may be produced which is easily able to escape from the cupboard and reach you.

Carbon monoxide is toxic. You die because your blood is no longer able to absorb oxygen even if the air around you is full of it. You don't die from a shortage of oxygen in the air around you.

There is no way I would put a Morco in a bathroom however well ventilated. I am putting mine in the sitting room.

If you have showers like my wife, about 30 seconds, she is very efficient, you will certainly be alright,

If you have showers like me, hours if the water holds out, then perhaps not!

 

 

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"Sounds like the heater isn't designed to be splashed with water in any way. IP regulations deal with ingress protection for any equipment, not just electrical: "

 

"--- try emailing the BSS office, they're quite helpful. Then you can show their reply to the BSS examiner before they start."

 

Thanks once again to all for your comments. I have emailed the BSS office and had a very informative reply. The gist of it is from PD 5482-3, (which is the installation standard which the installer will be working to) and to which 'Boilerman' refers. Here is the relevant bit:

"For example, it is essential that any conventionally flued appliance and/or its combustion air supply does not communicate with any room/cabin containing a bath or shower".

I think that is enough for me and I will not have it put in the bathroom.

Thanks also for the link re IP standards. I had only ever come across this before many years ago when doing an IEE Electrical Installers course and assumed it only referred to electrical safety.

Cheers

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I had a Paloma in my bathroom and to pass the BSS requirements I have built a cupboard around it with low and high vents inside the cupboard venting out of the boat as well as the chimney

Edited by stuart23

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If you put it in a cupboard then it's ability to get enough oxygen will be reduced and carbon monoxide gas may be produced which is easily able to escape from the cupboard and reach you.

Carbon monoxide is toxic. You die because your blood is no longer able to absorb oxygen even if the air around you is full of it. You don't die from a shortage of oxygen in the air around you.

There is no way I would put a Morco in a bathroom however well ventilated. I am putting mine in the sitting room.

If you have showers like my wife, about 30 seconds, she is very efficient, you will certainly be alright,

If you have showers like me, hours if the water holds out, then perhaps not!

Provided there is adequeate ventilation (in the airing cupboard) I suspect that could be far better than the sitting room (where it could just take longer to kill you)!

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I have just bought a new Morco water heater and discovered that the installation instructions specifically state 'not to be installed in a bathroom'. Which was exactly where I had intended to install it on my boat! Does anyone know why that is the case? And does anyone have any suggestions / comments about how to get round it other than find somewhere else to install it?

Thanks

VeeJay

I asked someone about this. The BSS does allow the heater to be installed in the bathroom. HOWEVER, the gas safe engineer recommends against it. He says the condensation from the shower can reduce the temperature of the flame causing CO which isn't good.

 

don't shoot the messenger

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Zombie Thread

 

I imagine that in the last (almost) 4 years the OP made a decision.

 

Except you overlook that the last poster may be in the process of installing a Morco, and hence any input on what is good or bad practice is as relevant to anybody involved in doing so now, as it was 3 or 4 years ago.

 

I found Bones' explanation inteesting, because I can't recall ever having see that reasoning given before, (or if it has been I have forgotten!)

 

Out last boat had the Morco in a really quite small bathroom, actually hung on the outside wall of the shower - something I have avoided doing the current boat.

Edited by alan_fincher

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Except you overlook that the last poster may be in the process of installing a Morco, and hence any input on what is good or bad practice is as relevant to anybody involved in doing so now, as it was 3 or 4 years ago.

 

I found Bones' explanation inteesting, because I can't recall ever having see that reasoning given before, (or if it has been I have forgotten!)

 

Out last boat had the Morco in a really quite small bathroom, actually hung on the outside wall of the shower - something I have avoided doing the current boat.

 

He may well be, but having quoted and answered the OPs question it is fairly obvious that he is not seeking answers, but providing answers to the question.

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He may well be, but having quoted and answered the OPs question it is fairly obvious that he is not seeking answers, but providing answers to the question.

 

Yes, I agree - providing answers to a hitherto not very well answered question, but I would argue for the benefit of anybody interested (like me) not just whoever first raised it.

Bones is a "she", by the way.

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