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[Richard T]

40 minutes ago, MartinW said:

Hello, I'm Martin and I'm just in the process of buying a 57' semi-trad. We both need work. I had lesson number one today as I lifted up the cover over the rev-counter and it flipped off its rusted hinges and over the rail. I shall be taking a large magnet on a rope with me next time. Lesson number two was closing the hatch cover and realising that I'd left the keys inside. Fortunately the front doors were only latched and not bolted. As a lover of detective fiction I was delighted, in a very mouldy drawer, to find an engine service bill from 2008 inside the handbook for the Vetus M4.15. The technician had written that he felt the engine might be over-propped and threatened dire consequences for various overloaded parts as a result. My survey says that the prop is 18"x 12 and 3-bladed. I looked up the Vetus specs and that is at the top of the range for the motor but not over. Nevertheless I shall be paying close attention to mounting bolt tightness and so on. the surveyor also told me that the prop was in really good nick. Since I know the boat has seen very little use that might be the original or a replacement. Lesson number three is to wait and see. now I'm just off out to look for a bit of steel to make a new Throttle-Quadrant cover just in case the magnet fails...

Martin, Welcome to the forum don't be afraid to ask questions. We all had to start boating somewhere and to ask what might appear to be the silliest questions. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. You will soon learn whose advice is sound. Tony Brooks who is a regular poster is very well informed on all things mechanical. He has a web site http://www.tb-training.co.uk

You might want to download some of the manuals from it.

All the best

 

Richard

 

[MartinW]

Thank you very much Richard, I have already learnt much from lurking on here, including just how patient the Reverend Tony Brooks can be.

 

[Tony Brooks]

On a canal boat I think the overlarge prop causing engine damage is far more theoretical than actual. If you were on a river and perpetually drove with the throttle flat out and smoke pouring from the exhaust then maybe but in the hands of a sensible boater I think not.

 

If you look at the power and torque curves of engines you will see the torque (twisting force) starts to drop while the power continues to climb so typically an overlarge prop will only show itself as the torque starts to drop. The engine will refuse to rev up any more, whatever you do with the throttle, and its likely to produce exhaust smoke. Sensible boaters recognise this and back the throttle off a bit. It is not uncommon for inland boats to be propped for maximum torque because that tends to give a better stopping power and fuel economy.

 

In my view if a prop was so oversize the engine components were likely to suffer excess wear it would simply refuse to rev up or even stall when put into gear, much as we see with flat batteries and huge highly geared alternators.

 

If the engine revs up and the boat can get up to about six knots in deep open water (where allowed) without excess exhaust smoke I think you can ignore the damage from oversized prop thing.

[MartinW]

Thank you very much. That kind of knowledge-based information is exactly why I joined the page. My only experience of torque curves is mostly from motorcycles, where the requirements are more or less diametrically opposite. I also recall how better Spitfires and Hurricanes became at higher altitudes once variable pitch props were introduced , so it's a good job most boats with fixed-pitch props work at water-level.

 

[Mark Dexter]

Hi, We are Mark and Debbie Dexter from Christchurch New Zealand. We have been in New Zealand for around 15 years now. I drive a cruise ship for a living so I guess water, be it salt or fresh is in my blood. As I write I am on my way back to Tenerife to rejoin her although I'm stuck in a hotel in Brisbane right now as my Qatar plane is kaput we are delayed two days. Came from the UK and loved our times cruising the canals on holiday rentals with our kids. So much so that we are looking to buy a boat to spend time and time about between the UK and NZ once life gets back to normal. Plans have been rather stuffed at the moment but hope to get back on track in the months ahead. Eventually we will retire back to the UK and spend more time on the waterways. I am more used to rather larger locks such as the Panama Canal (same principles) but have already learned so much from this forum so thank you.

 

[Laurie Booth]

Welcome to our forum

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Mark Dexter said:

Hi, We are Mark and Debbie Dexter from Christchurch New Zealand. We have been in New Zealand for around 15 years now. I drive a cruise ship for a living so I guess water, be it salt or fresh is in my blood. As I write I am on my way back to Tenerife to rejoin her although I'm stuck in a hotel in Brisbane right now as my Qatar plane is kaput we are delayed two days. Came from the UK and loved our times cruising the canals on holiday rentals with our kids. So much so that we are looking to buy a boat to spend time and time about between the UK and NZ once life gets back to normal. Plans have been rather stuffed at the moment but hope to get back on track in the months ahead. Eventually we will retire back to the UK and spend more time on the waterways. I am more used to rather larger locks such as the Panama Canal (same principles) but have already learned so much from this forum so thank you.

 

 

We already have a Kiwi couple on the forum (paging @DandV) who have done pretty much the same as you are planning.

[DandV]

On 22/01/2021 at 19:55, Mark Dexter said:

Hi, We are Mark and Debbie Dexter from Christchurch New Zealand. We have been in New Zealand for around 15 years now. I drive a cruise ship for a living so I guess water, be it salt or fresh is in my blood. As I write I am on my way back to Tenerife to rejoin her although I'm stuck in a hotel in Brisbane right now as my Qatar plane is kaput we are delayed two days. Came from the UK and loved our times cruising the canals on holiday rentals with our kids. So much so that we are looking to buy a boat to spend time and time about between the UK and NZ once life gets back to normal. Plans have been rather stuffed at the moment but hope to get back on track in the months ahead. Eventually we will retire back to the UK and spend more time on the waterways. I am more used to rather larger locks such as the Panama Canal (same principles) but have already learned so much from this forum so thank you.

 

Discounting covid it was alll very doable, and very enjoyable. 

After my wife got bitten by the bug, on one of our European trips that included a week with another couple on the K&A from Foxhangers to Bristol return, and another 4 days on a Kiwi friend's boat out of Cambridge on the fens, we included a reconaisaice trip the following years around boatyards to harden up our list of musts, nice, and don't like, and real world pricing.

As ours was also a nominal five year plan, this trip was invaluable in pre selecting brokers for the eventual conclusion of our adventure.

 I also operated a spread sheet of contending boats, their features, list date and price, any price adjustments, and sell date and a sight unseen rating based on asking price and features. We did actually see some of the boats on my list, and it was great to see how reality compared with sales brochures.

The boats we rated highly were quickly sold, giving us confidence in our evaluations.

This forum was great for answering specific questions, although I suggest you don't ask about continuously cruising a 12ft wide boat close to your employment in London.

The forum does get grumpier in winter, when weather deprives them of boating pleasure. The extremely challenging situation in the UK at present has exacerbated this trend.

Not only is the forum great for advice but the members can extraordinarily helpful as shown by the assistance being offered to get a battery key to someone in a current thread.

We located our pilot and vhf radio supplier and operator for our first tidal Thames passage on the forum.

The number of narrowboats with Maori names shows you will have many predecessors.

Another practical matter,

Our friend had their boat winter moored at The Aylesbury Canal Society, which worked very well for them and we were advised to go and see them.

In the event, because a medical event curtailed their boating, and  we ended up with their boat, and continuing the winter mooring arrangement that worked extraordinarily  well for us too. I cannot speak too highly of them and their facilities. Fulbourne that Peter Scott has documented on his superb "on this day" photos in a general boating thread, has moored with them for years.

They have a limited number of winter moorings, and six months income from them is preferable six weeks depths of winter only.

It was a quick and economical pre booked taxi ride to Heathrow airport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by DandV

[LauraleeG]

Hey All

Female, Canadian . Sailor. Thinking of buying a canal boat to live on - part time.

Since I live part time in a sailboat, I know the broo haha about small space/ managing poop and water and hydro. 
I get the romantic idea that people have that living on a sailboat is about tropical beaches, bikini clad beauties and dolphins swimming along your bow. As if! 
Questions:

1) I imagine that there is also a romantic ideal about live aboard on a canal boat?

If so, what is it? What’s the down and dirty for canal boats?

2) Also- I am part of a team, so my partner and I are thinking of a shorter ( <50 ft) widebeam. (Cruising North and South separately- I get that you can’t do move from one to another without a truck. ) make sense? 

3) How feasible is part time cruising?

doesn’t matter where the boat is moored as we are interested in the journey, not the destination. 
Thanks!! 

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, LauraleeG said:

I imagine that there is also a romantic ideal about live aboard on a canal boat?

If so, what is it? What’s the down and dirty for canal boats?

 

Pretty much the same as sailing ...

 

15 minutes ago, LauraleeG said:

.......... tropical overgrown towpaths, bikini clad grumpy old men and oil slicks swimming along your bow.

 

[Dr Bob]

5 hours ago, LauraleeG said:

Also- I am part of a team, so my partner and I are thinking of a shorter ( <50 ft) widebeam. (Cruising North and South separately- I get that you can’t do move from one to another without a truck. ) make sense? 

If you want to cruise canals get a narrowboat. If you want to moor up or cruise rivers, get a widebeam. It is so much more comfortable living on a 60ft+ narrowboat than a 50ft one. Although you cant do all the network with 60ft+, you can do a geat deal of it. Most sailing boats are shorter. I would class a 50ft narrowboat as a 35ft yacht whereas a 65ft narrowboat is like a 45ft yacht.

You wont see much of the canal network on a widebeam.

[LauraleeG]

19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

If you want to cruise canals get a narrowboat. If you want to moor up or cruise rivers, get a widebeam. It is so much more comfortable living on a 60ft+ narrowboat than a 50ft one. Although you cant do all the network with 60ft+, you can do a geat deal of it. Most sailing boats are shorter. I would class a 50ft narrowboat as a 35ft yacht whereas a 65ft narrowboat is like a 45ft yacht.

You wont see much of the canal network on a widebeam.

Ahh ok thanks for the comparison. My sail boat is 38’ long with a beam of 12 ft.

From what I have read, some very long boats have trouble in some canals? 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, LauraleeG said:

Ahh ok thanks for the comparison. My sail boat is 38’ long with a beam of 12 ft.

From what I have read, some very long boats have trouble in some canals? 

 

Only on some of the wide beam from new northan waterways pus a short one in the fens. From what I have read here 60ft and a bit of care will get you all over the main waterway system. 57 to 58feet definitely will.

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, LauraleeG said:

My sail boat is 38’ long with a beam of 12 ft.

 

 

My sail boat is 38' long x 23' beam, and my motor cruiser is 35' long x 14' beam

 

I have twice as much space on the cruiser than the biggest Narrow Boat.

 

With a 7' wide boat everything is in a "long 6' corridor", where as, with a wide boat I can have 'rooms' on each side with a corridor going down the centre, so twice as wide and half the length actually gives slightly more space - particularly where on a NB the engine takes up 6'+ of space whilst on the cruiser the engines are under the floor.

 

If you want to cruise the canals it really needs to be a NB.

[LauraleeG]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

My sail boat is 38' long x 23' beam, and my motor cruiser is 35' long x 14' beam

 

I have twice as much space on the cruiser than the biggest Narrow Boat.

 

With a 7' wide boat everything is in a "long 6' corridor", where as, with a wide boat I can have 'rooms' on each side with a corridor going down the centre, so twice as wide and half the length actually gives slightly more space - particularly where on a NB the engine takes up 6'+ of space whilst on the cruiser the engines are under the floor.

 

If you want to cruise the canals it really needs to be a NB.

Ok so- where do WB boats cruise? Just the rivers? Is there a river map link someone can point me to? Narrowboats seem so well— ummm narrow!??

WB are like apartments! 
How feasible is it to cruise rivers? Do rivers hook up with canals? 
And...how many boats do you have??!!??

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, LauraleeG said:

And...how many boats do you have??!!

 

Currently just two.

Picture of the Cat in Rijeka (Croatia) and the Cruiser on the River Trent (UK)

 

1 hour ago, LauraleeG said:

How feasible is it to cruise rivers? Do rivers hook up with canals? 

 

 

Yes, Rivers connect up to the canals but on the canals the draft is limited to (in reality) under 3' except on the big 'commercial canals'.

I have had about 30+  years on the canals & rivers but have always kept a 'sea-going' boat as well. I had the cruiser on the Rivers for 3 years as it was not suitable for the canals and eventually gave up on the Rivers and canals a couple of years ago due to increasing costs, lack of maintenance by the navigation authority and other 'problems'.

 

So took the cruiser onto the coast and now back to 'lumpy-water cruising with both boats.

 

Loading onto the truck :

 

 

 

'Cat' in Rijeka (Croatia) 3050 miles in 28 days back to Hull (UK)

 

 

 

 

 

Cruiser on the River Trent UK

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[LauraleeG]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Currently just two

 

 

 

Yes, Rivers connect up to the canals but on the canals the draft is limited to (in reality) under 3' except on the big 'commercial canals'.

I have had about 30+  years on the canals & rivers but have always kept a 'sea-going' boat as well. I had the cruiser on the Rivers for 3 years as it was not suitable for the canals and eventually gave up on the Rivers and canals a couple of years ago due to increasing costs, lack of maintenance by the navigation authority and other 'problems'.

 

So took the cruiser onto the coast and now back to 'lumpy-water cruising with both boats.

 

Loading onto the truck :

 

 

 

Do you live aboard both? Shuttling time between the two?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, LauraleeG said:

Ok so- where do WB boats cruise? Just the rivers? Is there a river map link someone can point me to? Narrowboats seem so well— ummm narrow!??

WB are like apartments! 
How feasible is it to cruise rivers? Do rivers hook up with canals? 
And...how many boats do you have??!!??

 

This map may help. red is wide canals and blue is rivers (wide) and the dark ones are narrow canals

 

 

 

 

Bear in mind inland boating is constrained by draft as Alan says but also air draft. may bridges are arched so a narrow beam boat will pass where a wide beam one may not.

 

I suggest that you study this website of the navigation authority for most of the system. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/

 

Have you looked into visas or whatever unless you are a UK citizen?

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, LauraleeG said:

Do you live aboard both? Shuttling time between the two?

 

No, we have 6-7 months living abord one or the other. 

The Cat is on the South Coast Moored at Plymouth, and the cruiser is now on the North Wales coast at 'Y Fellinhelli'. I'm not much of a sailor so we tend to use the Cat for a few weeks only when Son, daughter-in-Law and Grand daughter come back to the Uk from Cambodia (where they live)

 

The rest of the year we 'live-aboard' bricks and mortar 'on land'.

 

Cruising with a couple of 'old pensioners' with bad knees, hips and shoulders is much easier when you just 'point and go' (no hauling up bits of string and a rag tied onto a big pole)

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

This map may help. red is wide and blue is narrow

 

Apologies Tony, but a small correction.

 

Purple is narrow canals, Blue is wide rivers, Red is wide canals

[LauraleeG]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

This map may help. red is wide and blue is narrow

 

 

Bear in mind inland boating is constrained by draft as Alan says but also air draft. may bridges are arched so a narrow beam boat will pass where a wide beam one may not.

 

I suggest that you study this website of the navigation authority for most of the system. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/

 

Have you looked into visas or whatever unless you are a UK citizen?

 

Re Visas: Yeah, being Canadian I can stay for 6 months, my partner has dual citizenship. 
thanks for the map! Will go back to the canal river trust site and look at it differently with this new information ! 
 

how “ feasible” is it to be on her part time? We are thinking , on the hard for the winter, and being on her early spring to fall? 

i guess also, without a mooring, you can leave her for a month, right?

 

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, we have 6-7 months living abord one or the other. 

The Cat is on the South Coast Moored at Plymouth, and the cruiser is now on the North Wales coast at 'Y Fellinhelli'. I'm not much of a sailor so we tend to use the Cat for a few weeks only when Son, daughter-in-Law and Grand daughter come back to the Uk from Cambodia (where they live)

 

The rest of the year we 'live-aboard' bricks and mortar 'on land'.

 

Cruising with a couple of 'old pensioners' with bad knees, hips and shoulders is much easier when you just 'point and go' (no hauling up bits of string and a rag tied onto a big pole)

 

Apologies Tony, but a small correction.

 

Purple is narrow canals, Blue is wide rivers, Red is wide canals

 

Already corrected. done within seconds of posting.

[LauraleeG]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, we have 6-7 months living abord one or the other. 

The Cat is on the South Coast Moored at Plymouth, and the cruiser is now on the North Wales coast at 'Y Fellinhelli'. I'm not much of a sailor so we tend to use the Cat for a few weeks only when Son, daughter-in-Law and Grand daughter come back to the Uk from Cambodia (where they live)

 

The rest of the year we 'live-aboard' bricks and mortar 'on land'.

 

Cruising with a couple of 'old pensioners' with bad knees, hips and shoulders is much easier when you just 'point and go' (no hauling up bits of string and a rag tied onto a big pole)

 

Apologies Tony, but a small correction.

 

Purple is narrow canals, Blue is wide rivers, Red is wide canals

Hahaha yeah, sailing can be a lot of work, when you have no choice but to hoist the rags! And all that leaning!! ?

that’s why we want a canal boat, not another sailboat.

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, LauraleeG said:

Re Visas: Yeah, being Canadian I can stay for 6 months, my partner has dual citizenship. 
thanks for the map! Will go back to the canal river trust site and look at it differently with this new information ! 
 

how “ feasible” is it to be on her part time? We are thinking , on the hard for the winter, and being on her early spring to fall? 

i guess also, without a mooring, you can leave her for a month, right?

 

Many antipodeans do that, UK for the summer and back to the southern summer leaving the boat in the care of a marine but it will cost so check the fees with a number of marinas..

[LauraleeG]

Great info all around. Thanks! Over to the map! Good thing I am not colour blind! ?

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, LauraleeG said:

guess also, without a mooring, you can leave her for a month, right?

 

Unless you have a 'home mooring' then to obtain a canal licence you declare 'a boat with no home mooring' of which one of the conditions is that you cannot remain in the same place for more than 14 days (unless you go into a marina and pay a visitors 'daily rate' - about £20-£35 per day) some moorings are limited to a 2-hour stay, or 2-days, or 7 days)

Many people (myself included) would be extremely reluctant to leaving their boat moored up alongside the towpath with 'public access' and anyone wandering past.

Others are happy to do it.

Each to their own.

 

The only way you could leave the boat for a month is to 'park it' in a marina, or have it lifted onto the hard (expensive)

Edited January 25, 2021 by Alan de Enfield