JP4 on a trailer

[by'eck]

Just spotted this tug? engine on eBay.

 

Unusual to see one at all never mind in this condition & ready to tow away. Wonder what the few small jobs are.

[Ray T]

Just spotted this tug? engine on eBay.

 

Unusual to see one at all never mind in this condition & ready to tow away. Wonder what the few small jobs are.

 

"There are a few small jobs to do. As far as I can see:

 

There is a small diesel leak from the main feed pipe union.

 

The slate switchboard is mounted on rubber anti-vibration mounts. These will need to be replaced as the rubber has decayed. It is held in place with a small ratchet strap for the time being.

 

The roof of the trailer is made of a simple thin gauge steel sheet. It has been dented on both sides and has some rust along the edges but it could easily be straightened out and repaired or replaced.

 

3 of the 4 original canvas sides are present but are a bit the worse for wear. They would serve as a pattern for replacements.

 

The flywheel guard has been removed, because it was rubbing slightly but it is included.

 

Two of the brass information plates were loose and therefore removed but are included.

 

The mudguards on one side of the trailer could do with some straightening out."

Edited November 15, 2011 by Ray T

[cereal tiller]

Lovely machine!

 

do any LISTER aficinados know the weight of a "bobtail" JP4?

[alan_fincher]

No idea what "bobtail" means, but according to this link engine weight is 1,388 KG (which I make about 3060 pounds or 1.37 tons).

 

It's going to need quite good engine bearers if put in a narrow boat!

[cereal tiller]

BOBTAIL means without a pump, generator,gearbox,reduction gear or any other machine attached.

thanks for the info on weight.

[The Pipe]

I would hope it is not going to be vandalised into a boat engine.

[David Mack]

It's going to need quite good engine bearers if put in a narrow boat!

 

Full size narrwoboats manage perfectly well with JP2s, so a JP4 would definitely be overkill. And it would be a real shame to break up a genset in this condition, just for the engine!

 

JP4s do come up from time to time on Ebay, and usually go for very little money compared with the JP2s and JP3s. I suspect many get broken up to supply the apparently insatiable demand for spare JP cylinders blocks and heads.

 

David

[soldthehouse]

Lovely machine!

 

do any LISTER aficinados know the weight of a "bobtail" JP4?

http://realdiesels.co.uk/listerdata.html

[by'eck]

Full size narrwoboats manage perfectly well with JP2s, so a JP4 would definitely be overkill. And it would be a real shame to break up a genset in this condition, just for the engine!

 

JP4s do come up from time to time on Ebay, and usually go for very little money compared with the JP2s and JP3s. I suspect many get broken up to supply the apparently insatiable demand for spare JP cylinders blocks and heads.

 

David

 

Err.. surely the cylinder block from a JP4 is (only) a cylinder block for a JP4?

 

Anyway, so don't break it up - fit it into historic working boat as is (maybe change the load to 20kVA alternator). Fill working boat with industrial washing machines - for authenticity they can be hidden under canvas. Add very large water tank in the bows to trim up. Ply trade as a floating launderette

[alan_fincher]

http://realdiesels.co.uk/listerdata.html

Big difference between the 2,300 lbs in there and the 3,060 lbs in the page I linked to!

 

Presumabnly even "plus or minus some of the ancillaries" they can't both be right ?

 

Another link gives 2,608 lbs for a JP3, but doesn't quote a JP4's weight, but clearly you might expect it to be again broadly around 3,000 lbs.

 

Why the big difference in "realdiesels" - what do the others include that it doesn't ?

[Timleech]

Full size narrwoboats manage perfectly well with JP2s, so a JP4 would definitely be overkill. And it would be a real shame to break up a genset in this condition, just for the engine!

 

JP4s do come up from time to time on Ebay, and usually go for very little money compared with the JP2s and JP3s. I suspect many get broken up to supply the apparently insatiable demand for spare JP cylinders blocks and heads.

 

David

 

I entirely agree, it would be a shame to wreck the set for an engine which is far too big for a narrow boat. I've got the JP3 version of that set, nowhere near as cosmetically tidy and just on a skid, it was my main source of power at the dry-dock for a while.

 

Tim

[soldthehouse]

Big difference between the 2,300 lbs in there and the 3,060 lbs in the page I linked to!

 

Presumabnly even "plus or minus some of the ancillaries" they can't both be right ?

 

Another link gives 2,608 lbs for a JP3, but doesn't quote a JP4's weight, but clearly you might expect it to be again broadly around 3,000 lbs.

 

Why the big difference in "realdiesels" - what do the others include that it doesn't ?

Interesting I hadnt noticed, Its a reference I use regularly as I have a small [ahem] collection of old engines and the charts cover most of what I need. There is another but it eludes me at the moment, either way we wouldnt want one on our foot!

 

I entirely agree, it would be a shame to wreck the set for an engine which is far too big for a narrow boat. I've got the JP3 version of that set, nowhere near as cosmetically tidy and just on a skid, it was my main source of power at the dry-dock for a while.

 

Tim

Do I sense a small tempting extravagance about to unfold so near to Christmas Tim

[Timleech]

 

 

 

Do I sense a small tempting extravagance about to unfold so near to Christmas Tim

 

Do you mean am I tempted to bid - no, too many other commitments & no space!

Or are you tempted by my JP3 set? It's vaguely for sale, I don't use it any more, has to be dragged out across a field though, not a job for winter!

 

Tim

[soldthehouse]

Do you mean am I tempted to bid - no, too many other commitments & no space!

Or are you tempted by my JP3 set? It's vaguely for sale, I don't use it any more, has to be dragged out across a field though, not a job for winter!

 

Tim

You are a great oppurtunist salesman Tim, it hadnt crossed my mind but now you come to mention it........

 

Get thee behind me Satan

Stuart

[BEngo]

I would hope it is not going to be vandalised into a boat engine.

 

 

It might form the basis for a serious diesel-electric drive if you can find a VFD that will accept a 100V DC input ( I assume it is DC since it was for a searchlight) or a 100v DC motor and some ward-leonard control gear. No shortage of battery charging capacity either if you can configure a set of 24v batteries the right way.

 

If its AC single phase no problems- VFD and a delta wired motor.

 

It will need plenty of room though.

 

N

Edited November 16, 2011 by BEngo

[Timleech]

It might form the basis for a serious diesel-electric drive if you can find a VFD that will accept a 100V DC input ( I assume it is DC since it was for a searchlight) or a 100v DC motor and some ward-leonard control gear. No shortage of battery charging capacity either if you can configure a set of 24v batteries the right way.

 

If its AC single phase no problems- VFD and a delta wired motor.

 

It will need plenty of room though.

 

N

 

Mine is single phase 240V AC (15 kVA), I imagine this one is the same.

I believe some were used for anti-aircraft searchlights, some for 'portable' radars.

 

Tim

[Hairy-Neil]

Full size narrwoboats manage perfectly well with JP2s, so a JP4 would definitely be overkill.

 

Full size loaded narrowboats towing a full size loaded butty manage perfectly well with a JP2 (Towcester, Arundel). JP3s are overkill....

[Dorman]

Do you mean am I tempted to bid - no, too many other commitments & no space!

Or are you tempted by my JP3 set? It's vaguely for sale, I don't use it any more, has to be dragged out across a field though, not a job for winter!

 

Tim

Very tempting pm me a price if you want been looking for one when the Dorman needs replacing as spares are v hard to come by has it got water cooling pump?

 

Simon

[Proper Job]

A JP3 unit went last week for just over a grand:

 

link

 

 

Old JP's just keep turning up

[Dorman]

A JP3 unit went last week for just over a grand:

 

link

 

 

Old JP's just keep turning up

 

I dont know if l would have the heart to break it up for a narrowboat once l saw the photos I have some old Lister CE generator engines but there already bare so not so guilty. Have a soft spot for engine/gen combos seen at steam fairs and vintage rallies and would like them to keep rumming. Anyway other half keener on old tractor project--stange but true

 

Simon

[Proper Job]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating breaking up good gen-sets so that the motor can be used in NB's.

 

I was just pointing out that there are still a lot of JP3/4 derived gen-sets out there.

 

I'm sure a lot are still being used in anger as well.

[by'eck]

Fair comments about not breaking up, but its only done 680 hours in 70 years. These engines go on for ever so why not use them rather than retaining as a museum piece. Even if taken regularly to rallies they are just going to burn fuel whilst the bores glaze due to little/no load.

 

In a narrowboat they could come to life. A working tug should put enough load on one to keep it healthy. Adding electrical load in the form of alternators &/or travelpower would add a little more. A tug of war would be in the bag

 

I have seen a few narrowboats with 4LW's, probably lighter admittedly, but I'm sure this 4L2 isn't. In any case I doubt the owners have had any issues.

 

 

I note the genset has now been sold - quite a lot of mechanicals for just over £1500.

Edited November 17, 2011 by richardhula

[richardf]

Fair comments about not breaking up, but its only done 680 hours in 70 years. These engines go on for ever so why not use them rather than retaining as a museum piece. Even if taken regularly to rallies they are just going to burn fuel whilst the bores glaze due to little/no load.

 

In a narrowboat they could come to life. A working tug should put enough load on one to keep it healthy. Adding electrical load in the form of alternators &/or travelpower would add a little more. A tug of war would be in the bag

 

I have seen a few narrowboats with 4LW's, probably lighter admittedly, but I'm sure this 4L2 isn't. In any case I doubt the owners have had any issues.

 

 

I note its now been sold - quite a lot of mechanicals for just over £1500.

 

Richard Milligan, a marine engineer based on the S & W has a JP4 in his engine room and reckons it has never had any problems. It sounds amazing! He also has a single cylinder unit (don't think it was ever officially classed a JP but is of similar vintage) as his on board generation! BIG engine room!

[MoominPapa]

I have seen a few narrowboats with 4LW's, probably lighter admittedly, but I'm sure this 4L2 isn't. In any case I doubt the owners have had any issues.

 

 

I'm not quite sure why, but I'm rather disturbed at the idea of having a sink in an engineroom. It just seems wrong, somehow.

 

MP.

[Speedwheel]

He also has a single cylinder unit (don't think it was ever officially classed a JP but is of similar vintage) as his on board generation! BIG engine room!

 

Think it could be a Lister 9/1 (effectively a JP1). Nice guy is Richard - excellent engineer too.