OK - Next of the "Firsts"

[alan_fincher]

OK following on from the "first all steel full cabined leisure boat" thread......

 

I have seen who is supposed to have coined the term "Washer Josher".

 

But when do we reckon the first leisure boat actually appeared that had faked rivets in any significant number.

 

I really have no idea, so lets try and say who did it first, and when.

[Chertsey]

And was it before of after the first decent josher replicas were developed?

[NB Alton]

Mike Heywood?

[cereal tiller]

if springer's eventually become regarded as historic,there may one day,be a springer washer...?

[station tug]

first off there isnt a decent copy....and i take my hat off to who ever invented welding washers on the side of a hull to extract extra cash off troughy boat owners....bless them and there polished tiller pins :rolleyes:

[MtB]

Yeah this is my perception too. I've never seen a copy josher on the cut that looks right to my eye.

[nicknorman]

first off there isnt a decent copy....and i take my hat off to who ever invented welding washers on the side of a hull to extract extra cash off troughy boat owners....bless them and there polished tiller pins :rolleyes:

Could the mods rename this thread "One for the Traditionalist-Fascists" with subtext "vent your hatred of any modern non-bland boat"?

[alan_fincher]

Could the mods rename this thread "One for the Traditionalist-Fascists" with subtext "vent your hatred of any modern non-bland boat"?

Why ?

 

My original question was a serious one.

 

We don't rename every thread that goes off topic, do we ?

[station tug]

Could the mods rename this thread "One for the Traditionalist-Fascists" with subtext "vent your hatred of any modern non-bland boat"?

 

i love most boats...BUT there isnt a decent copy of a josher....Traditionalist-Fascists??? silly man!!!!!

[alan_fincher]

Actually,

 

I don't have a problem with a decent attempt at copying something, including faking the rivets, provided those doing it have actually looked at an original, and made some effort.

 

I reckon when this is complete......

 

 

the only thing that will it's hull visually very different from what it is copying is that it will be far to straight and perfect and lack the dents and a stoved in counter.

 

Not many do it this well though, (in my view....).

 

Could the mods rename this thread "One for the Traditionalist-Fascists" with subtext "vent your hatred of any modern non-bland boat"?

 

I can't find myself hating the example I have pictured, although my heart would always be more with the "real" boat tucked behind it, (a forum member's boat), than with the modern replica of something similar. (BTW I said "similar" as it is a "Woolwich" behind, and a "Northwich" being copied).

Edited September 25, 2011 by alan_fincher

[robkg]

Hi Alan,

 

I believe it was either Roger Fuller or possibly his brother Martin.

I am biased having owned two Fuller hulls, but I don't understand this derision of fake rivets.

If you were to attempt to replicate the look of an FMC boat (or any other for that matter)

why would you stop short of replicating the rivets?

I guess it is fair enough to love or hate any attempt to replicate a working boat shape,

but surely illogical to pick on one element of that replication.

 

As a final note, the idea of trying to make something look like something that it is not

is hardly new to narrowboats; scumbling for example.

 

Rob

 

[alan_fincher]

I guess it is fair enough to love or hate any attempt to replicate a working boat shape,

but surely illogical to pick on one element of that replication.

As I say above, I don't actually hate this feature, if applied to a reasonable replica of a working boat hull, and what ends up welded on looks like a reasonable representation of a rivet.

 

In my view only a few can do either thing well, (build a good copy of a known working boat type, or fake a convincing rivet), and I really can't particularly see the point of spending money to have either done unconvincingly.

 

When you see rivets faked onto the wrong part of a shell, actually ending up on a part that would be wooden in the original, then I must admit I do extract some humour from it, though!

 

And yes, I understand that the "Washer Josher" name was dreamt up by the Fullers, but do you believe they were the very first to actually go this route, or just those who gave it a memorable name ?

[robkg]

I appreciate that you were not critisising the use of fake washers, Alan but I have read many posts that do.

I think the Fullers were the first but I can't remember my source of this info. (so I could be wrong)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

first off there isnt a decent copy....and i take my hat off to who ever invented welding washers on the side of a hull to extract extra cash off troughy boat owners....bless them and there polished tiller pins :rolleyes:

[LEO]

Actually,

 

I don't have a problem with a decent attempt at copying something, including faking the rivets, provided those doing it have actually looked at an original, and made some effort.

 

I reckon when this is complete......

 

 

the only thing that will it's hull visually very different from what it is copying is that it will be far to straight and perfect and lack the dents and a stoved in counter.

 

Not many do it this well though, (in my view....).

 

 

 

I can't find myself hating the example I have pictured, although my heart would always be more with the "real" boat tucked behind it, (a forum member's boat), than with the modern replica of something similar. (BTW I said "similar" as it is a "Woolwich" behind, and a "Northwich" being copied).

 

Alan,

 

Interesting picture! Features my boat as well - hidden away in the paintdock (background of picture).

 

ATB

 

mike.

[mark99]

Re discussions re washers or not, there was a reply to a sililar thread a little while ago suggesting that unless you have a basic hull with a square steel box on top, walk around in a sackcloth with no adornment to yourself or your boat whatsoever, every thing else opined is purely subjective.

 

 

I tend to agree.

 

Those that profer negative opinions about other persons choices should take a good look at themselves and the choices they have made lol.

Edited September 26, 2011 by mark99

[Chertsey]

Re discussions re washers or not, there was a reply to a sililar thread a little while ago suggesting that unless you have a basic hull with a square steel box on top, walk around in a sackcloth with no adornment to yourself or your boat whatsoever, every thing else opined is purely subjective.

 

I tend to agree.

But this thread is about when, not whether.

[Timleech]

But this thread is about when, not whether.

 

I don't know 'when' exactly, but my perception is that it was a gradual process. People started putting 'rivets' in selected areas, usually prominent ones such as the top bend at the bow (and more often than not in the 'wrong' places, which is what started the whole 'derision' thing). I've no idea who was the first to do a whole boat in this way.

Even the best exponents of the art make them much more prominent than real rivets would have been on the same style of boat, as evidenced by the pics in this thread, actually difficult not to I suppose.

 

Tim

Edited September 26, 2011 by Timleech

[nicknorman]

Why ?

 

My original question was a serious one.

 

We don't rename every thread that goes off topic, do we ?

Well actually I am quite interested in the topic you posted, trouble is it provides a ready platform for those with a chip to start the usual anti-washer-josher rant, and of course it only took to post #5. So predictable and I am sure you knew it would happen!

 

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me but perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck? Or perhaps that is as irrational a rant as the anti-washer-josher brigade's?

[mark99]

But this thread is about when, not whether.

 

 

The fact is that the discussion of style, adornments and there-of is a continuum.... and the development of fake washers are part of that contimuum. It may be that in 100 years this addition (fake washers) are seen as an accurate and essential representation of a year 2000 class narrowboat...... yes it's maybe ridiculous but there again so can be seen are some of the other non essential additions developed since man first hollowed out a log.

 

Why polish brass and paint roses and castles?

 

Mark

 

Well actually I am quite interested in the topic you posted, trouble is it provides a ready platform for those with a chip to start the usual anti-washer-josher rant, and of course it only took to post #5. So predictable and I am sure you knew it would happen!

 

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me but perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck? Or perhaps that is as irrational a rant as the anti-washer-josher brigade's?

 

 

lol spilled me coffee

Edited September 26, 2011 by mark99

[alan_fincher]

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me but perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck? Or perhaps that is as irrational a rant as the anti-washer-josher brigade's?

 

Oh dear! Oh dear, oh dear!

 

Really does have you rattled, doesn't it!

 

 

I suspect if you actually take the trouble to observe, you might be genuinely surprised how few of those operating real ex working boats actually have a red hankie around their neck.

 

Yes, the President and Kildare group seem to have it as a requirement, and possibly occasionally you see it with those operating some of the "heritage group" boats.

 

But for the vast majority of ex-working boats in private ownership I'm not sure I have ever seen it.

 

I can think of some people operating modern copies of working boats, (and I mean ones actually trading!), who can be seen dressed up. But you don't need a particularly trained eye to see that it is a copy, and not actually something old.

 

Tell you what - each time you spot a "neckerchiefed" working boat steerer, post a picture on here - if you ignore President and co, I think it will take you quite a bwhile to build up a rogues gallery.......

 

We now see the world from both sides, having boated very extensively this year in a (relatively!) modern boat, but increasingly in an ex-working boat. I have to say that in either I have almost never experienced the kind of inconsiderate behaviours to which you refer, which, if it were commonplace, seems odd, given the miles we put in.

 

It is true that many with no experience of steering a working boat have little idea how little of the canal they can actually use on occasions, (particularly if well loaded), and perhaps you are mistaking their need to stay "in channel" and retain control, for some kind of "willy wobbling" which is perhaps not were they are about after all.

 

As a "for instance", I brought Sickle up the "Jackdaw pound" of the GU near Leighton Buzzard a week ago. In one stretch a line of modern(ish) boats were moored right against the towpath. I couldn't get within 3 feet of them, (the boats, not the towpath), before starting to heel over, with the boat dragging firmly on the bottom. So a full ten feet plus from the bank I didn't have enough water to retain control, but had I been in my other boat, I could easily have moored at the bank.

 

Things are not always as people choose to see them!

 

Finally, whilst I am not usually into stereotyping, I can report that Chalice has a large dent in its bows. This was put there by a Hudson owner who was more intent on sounding his horn and gesticulating madly, than he was by actually trying to stop, and avoid an accident, whilst we were in difficulties. His only apparent concern, before he carried on on his journey was that there was no damage to his boat. He actually had the cheek to say that it was strongly enough built that he had not yet been damaged by hitting another boat.

[nicknorman]

Well actually I am quite interested in the topic you posted, trouble is it provides a ready platform for those with a chip to start the usual anti-washer-josher rant, and of course it only took to post #5. So predictable and I am sure you knew it would happen!

 

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me but perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck? Or perhaps that is as irrational a rant as the anti-washer-josher brigade's?

 

Oh forgot to mention the bit about them having absolutely no sense of humour

[Chertsey]

Well actually I am quite interested in the topic you posted, trouble is it provides a ready platform for those with a chip to start the usual anti-washer-josher rant, and of course it only took to post #5. So predictable and I am sure you knew it would happen!

 

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me but perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck? Or perhaps that is as irrational a rant as the anti-washer-josher brigade's?

Oh dear, someone's got a chip on their shoulder.

 

Oh forgot to mention the bit about them having absolutely no sense of humour

So where's the funny?

[alan_fincher]

Oh forgot to mention the bit about them having absolutely no sense of humour

Very funny that! I'm rolling in the aisles!

 

Oh dear, someone's got a chip on their shoulder.

 

So where's the funny?

What I want to check then, Sarah, is that, as a now ex-working boat owner, did your Mummy dress you as a girl until the age of five ?

 

I'm interested to see how the theory holds up!

[cereal tiller]

nicknorman is just displaying how distorted and irrational some peoples views can be,so,to make his point,he has manufactured a rant.

 

by the way i did a correspondence course some years ago,the subject was something like ,oh yes,the obvious!

[nicknorman]

nicknorman is just displaying how distorted and irrational some peoples views can be,so,to make his point,he has manufactured a rant.

 

by the way i did a correspondence course some years ago,the subject was something like ,oh yes,the obvious!

 

Oh dear you've sussed it!

 

Do you think I should amend the boat name and location in my profile lest the boys and girls in red hankies and bowler hats come round on their butch boats to sort me out, since they will never get it?

 

 

So where's the funny?

Was that a typo?

Edited September 26, 2011 by nicknorman