damaged cabin side

[Hairy-Neil]

She is about 6 years old. The paint has faded some.

If it were to just have the dents filled and paint touched up I think it would stand out like a sore thumb. The chances of being able to match the current paint colour are unlikely.

 

 

They could well ask you to make a contribution for betterment...

[Ally]

I'm at a loss to understand how major damage can occur in a marina, particularly plastic to steel.

 

I've been blown arround a lot of marinas ---or my boat has, for those with mucky minds --- including the dreaded Barton Turns.

 

The worst that should happen is that you get blown sideways into another boat & in most cases it won't cause major damage. To hit another boat 3 times seems careless in the extreme.

 

Saga insurance can't get many claims for this sort of thing because you don't pay an excess on marina accidents.

yeh, me too but it did! he got blown sideways between us and a widebeam, think he tried revving hard and just blasted into us, as the bow is metal wrapped and higher than our tug gunwales, it hit the cabin sides with real force...I was gobsmacked it made such damage!

[sociable_hermit]

If the cabin side is dented, you'll never get it properly flat again. It'll always be at least partly a filler repair, and will need careful attention every time the boat is repainted.

 

Quantify the value that has been knocked off your boat, and a repaint may not be so unrealistic after all.

[Ally]

good point Hermie!

[Doorman]

 

Edited to add: Never underestimate the strength of a plastic boat.

 

 

Or, the mentality of its owner!

 

 

Meldrew

[Athy]

Our house contents insurance company can't be "usual", then. In our recent house fire much furniture was destroyed or written off, including two of our four dining chairs - but the company (Royal & Sun Alliance) paid for a complete new set of four.

Regarding your boat, however, I think David is correct. Apart from anything else, you can't see both sides of the baot ar once, so if one side's paint looks fresher than the other side's, who will notice?

[Ally]

me! But I do agree you are most likely correct...as I said, I would be happy for the 'wrong' to be 'right'!

In the case of the fire furniture...I would assume it would be conceded that the rest of the suite would have been smoke damaged?

[MtB]

I think the insurance thing is a red herring.

 

The steerer of the boat is the person liable for the damage. Write to him stating the value of your claim and demand payment. If it is not forthcoming, commence proceedings for debt recovery. Whether he has insurance (or not) need be of no concern to you, in the strict technical/legal sense, it's him you go after for the money, not his insurer.

 

This all gets clouded by the social dimension though. You probably both have an incentive to be 'nice about it' as he will probably continue to moor in the same marina, and you may both end up negotiating with his insurance company. But you don't have to, as I understand it.

 

Another approach would be to claim on your own comprehensive insurance and perhaps pursue him for any uninsured losses (e.g. no claims bonus, increased premia). Your own insurance co may choose to pursue him for their loss but this need not concern you either.

 

But beware, I am not a lawyer!

 

 

(Edited to correct spelling and grammar.)

Edited September 15, 2011 by Mike the Boilerman

[Hairy-Neil]

Our house contents insurance company can't be "usual", then.

 

House content policies are different, they're almost universally 'new for old' these days. Once one started the trend they all had to follow suit....

[Higgs]

I know I'm going to be slated for this and hanged from the boughs of the nearest tree. I don't think I am the only one to wonder though.........

 

The boater was struggling to moor the boat, in difficult conditions. Did it happen so fast that people were unaware of the likelyhood of collision. Unable to help the boater to guide the cruiser in more safely.

 

The owner of the cruiser, by the accounts here, was known to be a reasonable person; having no defence here, on this forum, I had to ask.

[Ally]

Higgs: we didn't even know he was coming in till he hit us...no big windows on my boat, and had music on...in a marina you get used to hearing boats moving around in the background, and it's usually the hire plastic that is messing around near us (though not next to) so no, was totally unaware till we were hit the first time. It was in quick succession, before we even got out the boat, by which time another boater who had walked by could just about reach the boat...we have horribly short pontoon fingers.

We do help people out when we think they want it...indeed only last night I was helping my neighbour (he of the loo slide) move his boat round to the diesel station and back off it.

Question answered?

As for resonable...I assume that...the office believe it, but then how well do the office know many moorers and how they will respond to any given situation, especially on a quite large marina. Answer, they can't. I will assume him to be reasonable until or unless I find otherwise.........don't believe I have said otherwise have I??

 

...and for all I know he could well be on the forum!

[Higgs]

It was a question that someone had to ask. It explains your case much better now.

 

There's alot of sneering goes on between narrowboaters and Grp Cruisers and it doesn't sit well, or make for even discussions.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Higgs

[Athy]

Perhaps "jocular banter" rather than "sneering", Mr. H?

I bet Ally was relieved that it was a GRP cruiser, and not for example another solidly-constructed tug, which had hit her, otherwise this thread might have been entitled "Bloomin' enormous dent* in cabin side".

 

* or "dint" if you're Northern.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Athy

[Ally]

My issue in this case, with this GRP cruiser, is not a snobby sneer, but being on the damage end of an accident....to be honest, had it been a narrowboat, firstly it would be unlikely to have been short enough to go sideways in that space, and secondly it would generally have hit us around the gunwale/rubbing strake, as most do, thus causing just 'normal' dodgems type damage. Because it has a much higher bow, and could go sideways, it hit our cabin sides where there is no protection. Sorry, this is not a go at cruisers, please go back and re-read the original post.......

I do not think it is unreasonable to be a little unhappy about being moored up in my home berth and getting my cabin dented, paint gone, and such forcefull hits it bounced the dog off the sofa and the neighbour nearly off his toilet!

Please don't look for more problems than already exist......this is not a 'have a go at cruisers coz I'm a shiny narrowboat owner' thread......and I am not, by the way, an overly proud polish rag in hand owner, by any means, I spend far too much time at work for that!

 

Perhaps "jocular banter" rather than "sneering", Mr. H?

I bet Ally was relieved that it was a GRP cruiser, and not for example another solidly-constructed tug, which had hit her, otherwise this thread might have been entitled "Bloomin' enormous dent* in cabin side".

 

* or "dint" if you're Northern.

yup Athy, though it would then have been likely to be gunwale to gunwale...normal expected damage on thicker steel area, and probably a paint issue to be resolved on the cut side rather than a whole side and dents!

[ditchcrawler]

I think the insurance thing is a red herring.

 

The steerer of the boat is the person liable for the damage. Write to him stating the value of your claim and demand payment. If it is not forthcoming, commence proceedings for debt recovery. Whether he has insurance (or not) need be of no concern to you, in the strict technical/legal sense, it's him you go after for the money, not his insurer.

 

This all gets clouded by the social dimension though. You probably both have an incentive to be 'nice about it' as he will probably continue to moor in the same marina, and you may both end up negotiating with his insurance company. But you don't have to, as I understand it.

 

Another approach would be to claim on your own comprehensive insurance and perhaps pursue him for any uninsured losses (e.g. no claims bonus, increased premia). Your own insurance co may choose to pursue him for their loss but this need not concern you either.

 

But beware, I am not a lawyer!

 

 

(Edited to correct spelling and grammar.)

My sister was involved in a minor car accident on a roundabout, probably her fault. Both can insurance companies involved, but when my sisters company was slow in paying out the other driver took a CCS out against my sister, not the insurance company.

[WotEver]

My sister was involved in a minor car accident on a roundabout, probably her fault. Both can insurance companies involved, but when my sisters company was slow in paying out the other driver took a CCS out against my sister, not the insurance company.

Absolutely, Any insurance is covering you for the costs you incur as a result of any accident. It is indeed you who is liable for payment for any damage that you have caused.

 

Tony

[gaggle]

It's because some dishonest people do this, that we all have to pay higher insurance premiums.

The insurance company have probably already sold on the details of the incident to a claims farmer , that is what drives premiums up more than any dishonest people , the damage claim is just part of the claim , other payments become entitlements because of the incident and anyone who does not accept or ask for what they are entitled to seems silly to me.

[Andy Todd]

Given the description IMO it may be difficult to demonstrate negligence beyond balance of probabilities.

 

Any 3rd party claim for liability due to negligence. Just because someone has caused damage does not mean they are negligent.

 

It would not surprise me if the insurance company classed is as a normal boating incident.

 

yeh, me too but it did! he got blown sideways between us and a widebeam, think he tried revving hard and just blasted into us, as the bow is metal wrapped and higher than our tug gunwales, it hit the cabin sides with real force...I was gobsmacked it made such damage!

[Ally]

Given the description IMO it may be difficult to demonstrate negligence beyond balance of probabilities.

 

Any 3rd party claim for liability due to negligence. Just because someone has caused damage does not mean they are negligent.

 

It would not surprise me if the insurance company classed is as a normal boating incident.

'normal' or not, his boat, with him in charge of it, caused some considerable damage to an area of the boat that would not normally be much at risk. Why I should be held responsible for the re-paint it DOES need to have...and filling etc, because of this, when I was fully moored in my home berth, would seem highly questionable to me. If in a car and parked up, and another slid on ice say, and went into you, you would still have a claim against the drivers insurance for repairs.

[mayalld]

Given the description IMO it may be difficult to demonstrate negligence beyond balance of probabilities.

 

Any 3rd party claim for liability due to negligence. Just because someone has caused damage does not mean they are negligent.

 

 

If they moved a boat in windy conditions without taking adequate precautions to ensure the boat remained under command, they were negligent.

[Higgs]

If they moved a boat in windy conditions without taking adequate precautions to ensure the boat remained under command, they were negligent.

 

If the accident had happened the other way and the steel boat had hit the GRP boat then this might have split the GRP. There would have been no question of getting it fixed.

 

Maybe the attempt at mooring should have been abandoned and help sort, or another mooring option considered.

 

The GRP was out of control.

[twbm]

The thing insurance away from the roads is there isn't the same relatively easy process for dealing with claims - you may find you have to sue him so he can use his insurance to defend the claim or pay up - check your own policy to see who pays for that. You're not going to get a new paint job out of this so why not get some quotes to get the cabin back to as flat as can be with a decent coat of primer and see what he says?

[Teadaemon]

If the accident had happened the other way and the steel boat had hit the GRP boat then this might have split the GRP. There would have been no question of getting it fixed.

 

Maybe the attempt at mooring should have been abandoned and help sort, or another mooring option considered.

 

The GRP was out of control.

 

It takes a lot more force than you might imagine to split the mouldings of a GRP boat. There was one in the hire fleet I work for (from time to time) that had split, but only after 40 years of being rammed into pretty much every quayheading on the Broads. (It's a 10 berth Bounty Buccaneer, mainly hired out to stag/hen parties or similar groups.) Although fixing it wasn't easy (mainly because we had to completely strip the interior in order to get access to the joint from both sides), it was worth us doing the job (along with fixing all of the other various bits of damage while we were there).

 

Ramming the bows of a boat into the side of a GRP boat is much more likely to put a bows-shaped hole into the side of the GRP boat than it is to split the mouldings. Whether that's economic to repair or not depends on how much the GRP boat is worth (boats tend to be declared a constructive total loss when repair costs exceed 80% of the value of the boat).

[Ally]

The thing insurance away from the roads is there isn't the same relatively easy process for dealing with claims - you may find you have to sue him so he can use his insurance to defend the claim or pay up - check your own policy to see who pays for that. You're not going to get a new paint job out of this so why not get some quotes to get the cabin back to as flat as can be with a decent coat of primer and see what he says?

Ermm...not sure if I quite understand you correctly, but I wouldn't want my boat sitting around in primer! No, I believe it should be put back to how it was prior to the damage....and that includes all paint work up to and including the top coats!!! (for the side affected)

[bizzard]

Car body work chaps are best for getting it perfectly flat,very clever with filler and D/A's. bizzard.