deep clean(after flooding)

[Titan]

Hopefully i will be embarking on a the biggest project/challenge in my life yet, and that is to re commision a 57ft trad which sadly sank 12 months ago due to weed trap issues, the inside has been cleared out 90% , i need to lift and clean and disssenfect all the ballast and remove surface rust from the floor and mid gunnells of the entire shell, any tips on what paint is suitable to reseal? intentions are to use just a redoxide type paint ? next will be flooring? which type? then insulation, is rockwell useable as friends within friends have a plentifull supply. During the initial clean up, i will be removing engine and stripping in the vain hope of salvaging it perkins 46hp 3 cyl? not come across this before so opinions on this or replacement would also be much appreciated, hundreds of questions to ask but realise i have years ahead of me to get it right or near as , thankyou if you have read this far kind regards Martin

[Bob18]

Hire a decent sized steam cleaner for a few days after you've lifted all the ballast and give everything a really good going over.

You'll probably also need a small pump to get rid of the water and crud.

 

Ask three people about the rust - you'll get four answers, or one.

 

Oh, lots of luck will be needed, but I think you'd worked that out already

[WotEver]

Ask three people about the rust - you'll get four answers, or one.

Here comes the first one

 

After all the muck has been cleaned up, and the loose surface rust all nicely rubbed off with your tool of choice (Parago, wire cup, whatever), and it's all been vacuumed or swept, I'd suggest going over the whole thing with Vactan. You could then leave it like that or of course you could follow it with a nice coat of red oxide. Then re-lay the ballast.

 

I'll try to find the thread where paulcatchpole treated the inside of a hull similarly along with nice pictures.

 

Tony

 

Here you go. Posts 10 & 15.

 

And of course, it wasn't Paul doing the Vactaning, it was Kate.

Edited September 7, 2011 by WotEver

[Titan]

Here comes the first one

 

After all the muck has been cleaned up, and the loose surface rust all nicely rubbed off with your tool of choice (Parago, wire cup, whatever), and it's all been vacuumed or swept, I'd suggest going over the whole thing with Vactan. You could then leave it like that or of course you could follow it with a nice coat of red oxide. Then re-lay the ballast.

 

I'll try to find the thread where paulcatchpole treated the inside of a hull similarly along with nice pictures.

 

Tony

 

Here you go. Posts 10 & 15.

 

And of course, it wasn't Paul doing the Vactaning, it was Kate.

 

Thats very intresting, i shall be on the lookout for vactan vsoon, thank you for your advice

regards Martin

[Bob18]

One thing to bear in mind is that most primers are not fully water proof, they need to have a "proper" paint applied fairly soon after priming.

 

So once you've cleaned and dried the interior apply the rust treatment, follow it with the primer of your choice then with a water proof paint.

 

Personally I'm not a fan of red oxide primers as I've found them to be of little use when compared to high build, high zinc primers. In the days of red lead they were probably about the best going, but these days they don't have lead, and many have virtually no free zinc. As ever, with any primer(or paint) read the product data sheet (not the advertising brochure) before buying to make sure it will do what you want it to...

[carlt]

One thing to bear in mind is that most primers are not fully water proof, they need to have a "proper" paint applied fairly soon after priming.

 

Personally I'm not a fan of red oxide primers as I've found them to be of little use when compared to high build, high zinc primers.

If it gets wet, I prime it with this: Teamac Metaclor Underwater CR Primer

[bizzard]

Fix the weed box lid. bizzard.

[ditchcrawler]

I wouldn't use Rockwool ether lose or bats for insulation, what is there at present?

[Titan]

I wouldn't use Rockwool ether lose or bats for insulation, what is there at present?

 

No insulation at all now,all been gutted, i see some threads where they have used (batton typre ) rockwall, im not conviced on spray foam due to varying quality and thickness of application, i was told to look for black polystyrene type board which apparently has a very high insulation quality, but mentioned it down the builders to receive vacant looks L so choices cellotex/kingspan, rockwool type , or ol fashioned polystyrene. But i have a few months ahead of me before i make my choice and committ to this. thankyou

 

Fix the weed box lid. bizzard.

 

Ah yes first job remove ballast clean n paint, replace, second remove engine, 3rd restyle weed hatch cover and fit new metal bulkhead!!!

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

The problem with rockwool is that it is permeable to vapour cooking and breathing leading to water vapour running down the walls. Foil covered insulation sheets cut to size and glued in with foam to fill any gaps. If money is short then use rockwool but line with visqueen sheeting. what type of ballest are you trying to save? when I did a similar salvage job I binned the concrete blocks and used 13 tonnes of accrington brick rejects. With the engine remove the cylinder head drain the sump and see if the engine will turn over by hand. If it does then get the starter motor and alternator checked and rebuilt with luck the fuel pump will be ok. Where is the boat?

[Bob18]

Rockwool may the cheapest, but its a pain to install - even that wrapped in plastic has a habit of getting onto/into exposed (or unexposed skin).

 

Next cheapest is the expanded polywotistzname. For quite a few years it has been difficult to get anything other than the fire resistant stuff. It is not fire proof, it just doesn't flare up like the old stuff used to, but do make sure you get the fire resistant stuff - it should be labelled as such. Inherently water and moisture resistant. Cuts easily with a bread knife, but you can end up with loads of little bits stuck to everything.

 

Kinspan/Cellotex are the most expensive, but are easy to work with - it is best to get the foil faced stuff and then put foil tape on the edges as this improves the moisture barrier properties.

 

Both sheet materials can be wedged in or glued to the metal, and gaps filled with fire proof "fill and fix" foam.

[Justme]

Has anyone ever tried the sprayed in warmcel (slightly damp so it sticks) in the voids before fitting the panels?

(you can also dry fill but need to cut a hole in every section of panel to allow access)

It fills the voids & gaps like the spray foam does but without the expansion.

[Titan]

The problem with rockwool is that it is permeable to vapour cooking and breathing leading to water vapour running down the walls. Foil covered insulation sheets cut to size and glued in with foam to fill any gaps. If money is short then use rockwool but line with visqueen sheeting. what type of ballest are you trying to save? when I did a similar salvage job I binned the concrete blocks and used 13 tonnes of accrington brick rejects. With the engine remove the cylinder head drain the sump and see if the engine will turn over by hand. If it does then get the starter motor and alternator checked and rebuilt with luck the fuel pump will be ok. Where is the boat?

 

The ballast is of paviour type bricks, as to the engine i intended to take exactly the same route as you suggest, although last nite noted a complete rebuild kit

on ebay for 229.00 liners rings pistons shells n gaskets, bargain, D3 152 perkins. ? the boat is in Gloucestershire, and will be for some time i suspect thankyou, for all your advice regards Martin

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

whip the head off and check the wear on the bores. I attempted to replace the liners on my FR but they where impossible to shift and I was not going to machine them out.

[blackrose]

Personally if the inside of my hull was back to bare steel and I had the chance to paint it I'd use a good two-pack epoxy paint system over any underwater primers like Primocon or Metaclaw. I've used both brands on the outside (under bitumen) and although they give the blacking an extra year or two they don't last that long. If you used a twin pack epoxy on the inside you'd probably never need to do it again. That is the bilge paint system we've been using in the restoration of Streatley. http://www.steamboat.org.uk/register/html/stre0557.htm

 

Edited to say: most people's narrow boat bilges are just painted with bitumen and as long as they're kept dry that's sufficient. If the bilges are going to be wet for any length of time then a twin pack epoxy is the "ze ultimate zolution"

Edited September 12, 2011 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

No insulation at all now,all been gutted, i see some threads where they have used (batton typre ) rockwall, im not conviced on spray foam due to varying quality and thickness of application, i was told to look for black polystyrene type board which apparently has a very high insulation quality, but mentioned it down the builders to receive vacant looks L so choices cellotex/kingspan, rockwool type , or ol fashioned polystyrene. But i have a few months ahead of me before i make my choice and committ to this. thankyou

 

 

 

If you have it spray foamed and you are there when they do it you can check the job is up to spec before paying

[Titan]

Quick Update,

I have secured the purchase of the craft and all being well move it to the boat yard this saturday

If anyone has fit out items for sale feel free to let me know thanks for everyones comments to date much appreciated regards Martin

[WotEver]

Quick Update,

I have secured the purchase of the craft and all being well move it to the boat yard this saturday

Well done that man

 

Just out of nosiness, which yard is it going in?

 

Tony

[Titan]

R w davis Saul.

They have been helpfull and supportive so far, early days, just came back from the initial hand over and bss meeting, need to obtain a copy of the essential bss guide, any ideas where ? in the true light of day i have a mammoth task ahead lol, cheers martin

[WotEver]

... need to obtain a copy of the essential bss guide, any ideas where ?

Oh that one's easy http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/GettheGuide_7.asp

 

Tony

[Titan]

Tony thank you,

just flicked through the bss , like reading an mot testers update book lol, I think if i concentrate on one area at atime all will fall into place, bss comes across as common sense, good practise, etc i can see pitfalls in there? but sure with guidance on the forums i will get there. Intresting thing today, my surveyor expressed his dislike to vactan , rustkill type applications, his recommendations after many years of examining canal boats? to quote (take it back to bear metal, black bitumen it, n before the black sets , fit roofing felt to it, . yup he said simple, bitumenh starts to dry off then place shed felt on top the two become one , presto metal sealed twice, as felt adheres, ballast sits on felt protecting all? makes sense i guess, he pointed out on my, yes i can call it my boat now areas of red oxide, areas of blacking, areas of stuffs behind boiler area, and many others, strangly, areas red oxide were showing signs of surface rust (17) yrs later, however the blacked areas, were just black, no rust at all i mean nothing ? lots to learn, lots to do,

[WotEver]

Everyone has their own opinions

 

I've never heard of the bitumen and felt idea, although it sounds good. However if I were doing that I'd still use Vactan first, to kill the rust. You'll never remove every trace of rust no matter how well you grind it back.

 

I'm a fan of Vactan as it requires no cleaning off and acts as a very effective primer, but not everyone shares my enthusiasm. That doesn't make either of us wrong.

 

Tony

[sebrof]

I am a great fan of Owatrol, as mentioned on another thread. It's not a rust converter as such, though it achieves the same effect in a much more permanent way.

 

This is some blurb. The rust prevention/treatment stuff starts at page 4. Owatrol

 

I applied Owatrol to some rust patches on the roof last year, and still haven't had time to paint over it. Despite rain, snow, ice and all the rest, the surfaces are still in perfect condition. I can't say the same for a surface I applied Fertan to just a few months ago. It's already rusted over again.

 

In fairness, Fertan should be overpainted, but it's a mark of how superior Owatrol is that it hasn't needed over-painting (yet).

 

So basically, I prefer Owatrol's long-lasting oil-based solution to the temporary job done by water-based rust converters.

Edited September 15, 2011 by sebrof

[WotEver]

I applied Owatrol to some rust patches on the roof last year, and still haven't had time to paint over it. Despite rain, snow, ice and all the rest, the surfaces are still in perfect condition.

I did the same for some patches on the gunwales that I didn't have time to grind back, so couldn't use Vactan. Same results as you - it stopped the rust dead in its tracks.

 

Tony

[Titan]

Owatrol, i like the sound off

to clarify oil based paint ? is there a red oxide/type paint or primer suitable to paint over owatrol?

would owatrol allow blacking to be painted over it ???

 

Move the boat tommorrow so hopefully within 3 weeks i will of finished prep to floor ready for treatment/painting

 

regards Martin