A question of etiquette

[DickBrowne]

I travel at the speed I want to travel at. I expect to be able to do that. I also expect others to do the same, hence if I'm in their way, I'd much rather slow down, pull over and let them past. They get to travel faster than we want to, I don't get stressed by having somebody else following closely behind, who I know I'm holding up, as they go past, they normally acknowledge my move in a friendly way, which is all very nice and pleasant. Everyone's a winner.

 

Occasionally I've needed to press on a little myself, and now Pinmill has a more suitable prop, I'm able to do this again. Occasionally I have caught up with another boat and if they're dawdling, which is their absolute right, and I really do need to get a move on, I will wait until they notice me and politely request that I be allowed past. Invariably, as soon as there is a chance, I've been waved through, as I go past I always thank them, explain the reason for my hurry and carry on at my chosen speed.

 

I've never had a major issue with it myself, but the most frustrating time is when I've been on hire boats which had a tickover speed faster than the boat I was following, which means a bit of neutral, drop back, back into forwards, idle up to the point where I feel uncomfortably close and repeat

 

Yup, it's (mainly) a leisure activity for most and I think that the leisure part can be more pleasurable, for me at least, if I don't feel like I'm holding somebody up.

 

Richard

[nina]

With a slow boat, it's often a case that the person in front is new to boating and lacks confidence in operating the boat in which case the etiquette,if you're not in a rush, is to dawdle behind with good patience and just enjoy the view until you can get past. That's the kind approach.

If you've hired a boat and are trying to get somewhere a bit faster, the boating etiquette is still to be patient and drop behind. Boating is meant to be slow and relaxed so if you have a boat, you have to some extent,already accepted that life isn't going to be in the fast lane.

However, some people do go irritatingly slow in which case it becomes a situation of negotiation to pass the slow boat. The best way is to basically get closer to the boat in front (no pressure of course), they will sense you're right up behind them, then when you reach a passing point, indicate politely that you'd like to pass them. Most boats will happily let you go past but it is all about manners and not being in too much of a hurry.

Just be aware that boat hirers and boat retirees are often in a different time warp. Whereas the boat retiree (not me) has 3-6 months to cruise, the boat hirer may have just a week so each has their own agenda.

A polite process of signalling your intention to the boat in front usually starts off the process of you being able to overtake. Not guaranteed. we have been called speed freaks and threatened with various finger signs but as you're on one boat and they're on another, there's not much harm you can come to. Just raise a glass and a toast as you go past and all will be well. :-)

[Guest]

With a slow boat, it's often a case that the person in front is new to boating and lacks confidence in operating the boat in which case the etiquette,if you're not in a rush, is to dawdle behind with good patience and just enjoy the view until you can get past. That's the kind approach.

If you've hired a boat and are trying to get somewhere a bit faster, the boating etiquette is still to be patient and drop behind. Boating is meant to be slow and relaxed so if you have a boat, you have to some extent,already accepted that life isn't going to be in the fast lane.

However, some people do go irritatingly slow in which case it becomes a situation of negotiation to pass the slow boat. The best way is to basically get closer to the boat in front (no pressure of course), they will sense you're right up behind them, then when you reach a passing point, indicate politely that you'd like to pass them. Most boats will happily let you go past but it is all about manners and not being in too much of a hurry.

Just be aware that boat hirers and boat retirees are often in a different time warp. Whereas the boat retiree (not me) has 3-6 months to cruise, the boat hirer may have just a week so each has their own agenda.

A polite process of signalling your intention to the boat in front usually starts off the process of you being able to overtake. Not guaranteed. we have been called speed freaks and threatened with various finger signs but as you're on one boat and they're on another, there's not much harm you can come to. Just raise a glass and a toast as you go past and all will be well. :-)

 

That's a good post -

 

please just remember though us retirees have deadlines to meet too...

[Guest Quo Vadis]

First point, nearly everyone who isn't just biding time waiting to die of old age, have other commitments etc that mean they sometimes have to be somewhere at an appointed time. In our case we live in Aberdeen but have the boat at Tamworth, and fly down and back, sometimes just for a weekend. That means we have to arrive at the airport at the appointed time, or miss the flight and have to pay maybe £500 for 2 last minute tickets. Of course we leave some margin, but it's a tradeoff between leaving some margin and significantly cutting down the time we can spend cruising in our fantastic boat. So if we get stuck behind some selfish person who is basking in self-righteous glory about how they are going at tickover and anyone who wants to rush (aka go slightly faster) shouldn't be on the canals, I find frustrating, stressful and enjoyment-reducing and would quite like to hit them if only I could reach!

 

Our boat is deep drafted but has good swims so is quite fast on deeper sections but can be slow when it's shallow. I always keep an eye out behind, and if someone is gaining on me I always encourage them to overtake. It would be nice if that was always reciprocated but alas not.

 

It really is so trivially easy to let someone else overtake that I wonder why some find it such a big deal. Presumably it is people who struggle to control their boats just trundling along and anything over an above that is beyond them. I just wish they would learn to boat! Thinking about it, it's probably BECAUSE they are tickover, with limited rudder authority, that they are so scared!

 

I can't abide selfishness.

How does going faster on your boat increase the time you spend on it?

[nigel carton]

How does going faster on your boat increase the time you spend on it?

I go faster, I get the boat delivered quicker, I get back home, see the trouble n strife, then go and move another boat and hope I don't get stuck behind a knob head move another boat then maybe do a couple of boat safety inspecstions etc etc etc, I'm half cooked and don't give a flying f*@k , will definately delete this in the am ...........

[Guest Quo Vadis]

Some of us, not many, work the canals, I deliver boats from A to B.

You'll be one of the boats I pull over for then, and glad to do it.

[nigel carton]

You'll be one of the boats I pull over for then, and glad to do it.

 

Thank you, to be fair, I would love to bibble along and take my time, late start, stop for lunch, finish at tea time, but reality is start in the dark, and just keep going till dark.

I'm not complaining, I love what I do.

[Black Ibis]

How does going faster on your boat increase the time you spend on it?

 

If you know you can do 35 lock miles in a day, and are sure you'll be able to manage that, then you can schedule your return to the mooring say the day before you fly out.

 

If you're much less certain how far you can achieve in a day, and achieve variable figures, then you'd want to build in a safety margin and aim to be returned to the mooring a few days before you needed to fly out, so you can dawdle, change plans, and stop when you feel.

 

Or at least that's what I think they mean!

[Hairy-Neil]

The trunk of the North Circular aqueduct not being used by the slow boat ?

 

The BCN gauging stops work too....

[Ange]

I travel at the speed I want to travel at. I expect to be able to do that. I also expect others to do the same, hence if I'm in their way, I'd much rather slow down, pull over and let them past. They get to travel faster than we want to, I don't get stressed by having somebody else following closely behind, who I know I'm holding up, as they go past, they normally acknowledge my move in a friendly way, which is all very nice and pleasant. Everyone's a winner.

 

Occasionally I've needed to press on a little myself, and now Pinmill has a more suitable prop, I'm able to do this again. Occasionally I have caught up with another boat and if they're dawdling, which is their absolute right, and I really do need to get a move on, I will wait until they notice me and politely request that I be allowed past. Invariably, as soon as there is a chance, I've been waved through, as I go past I always thank them, explain the reason for my hurry and carry on at my chosen speed.

 

I've never had a major issue with it myself, but the most frustrating time is when I've been on hire boats which had a tickover speed faster than the boat I was following, which means a bit of neutral, drop back, back into forwards, idle up to the point where I feel uncomfortably close and repeat

Yup, it's (mainly) a leisure activity for most and I think that the leisure part can be more pleasurable, for me at least, if I don't feel like I'm holding somebody up.

 

Richard

 

This post sums up my feelings on the subject The bit I've highlighted is the most important one for us - boats clearly have different tickover settings because we have found that some boats go so slow that it's hard work to keep a polite distance.

[Sunset Rising]

We have just returned from out first week on a (hire) narrowboat. At tickover the boat was bearable, at anything above that the noise, rattle and vibration was unpleasant to say the least.

 

The one part of the holiday that bothered me was having boats catch us up. None of them said anything but I was conscious of the fact that I would be holding them up and that made me feel uncomfortable. We pulled over and let them past whenever possible ( always a good excuse for a cuppa ) but the banks of the T&M seem very shallow and we frequently grounded in the process.

 

I really envied those boats who could slip along quicker with hardly a sound ( or wash )

[nicknorman]

How does going faster on your boat increase the time you spend on it?

It doesn't, however we have to allow some extra time in case of delays, That as I mentioned is a balancing act. If I have to allow enough extra time to still get back to the Marina despite getting stuck behind someone going ridiculously slow (it has happened - so slow that we had to spend half the time in neutral) then on the vast majority of trips we end up getting back to the marina unnecessarily early. Yes we are still on the boat but we got the boat to cruise on, not to be tied up in the Marina on. Fortunately so far we have not missed our flights, but one day it will happen and anyway I could do without the stress caused by the selfishness of others. If people want to go ridiculously slowly that is fine, just don't force everyone else to have to do the same. That is arrogant and selfish.

 

These people would be upset if I blocked their path walking on the pavement, why do they think it's OK to do the same with their boat?

 

If you know you can do 35 lock miles in a day, and are sure you'll be able to manage that, then you can schedule your return to the mooring say the day before you fly out.

 

If you're much less certain how far you can achieve in a day, and achieve variable figures, then you'd want to build in a safety margin and aim to be returned to the mooring a few days before you needed to fly out, so you can dawdle, change plans, and stop when you feel.

 

Or at least that's what I think they mean!

More or less, but bear in mind that we may only be down Friday night and back Sunday evening, so margins have to be measured in hours not days!

[DickBrowne]

We have just returned from out first week on a (hire) narrowboat. At tickover the boat was bearable, at anything above that the noise, rattle and vibration was unpleasant to say the least.

 

The one part of the holiday that bothered me was having boats catch us up. None of them said anything but I was conscious of the fact that I would be holding them up and that made me feel uncomfortable. We pulled over and let them past whenever possible ( always a good excuse for a cuppa ) but the banks of the T&M seem very shallow and we frequently grounded in the process.

 

I really envied those boats who could slip along quicker with hardly a sound ( or wash )

 

Congrats on the first week, it was the steepest part of the learning curve for us - I'm guessing you have extra issues to deal with too - eyesight's pretty important on a boat, almost as much as when you're bowling

 

I find that if somebody is close enough and moving fast enough, as long as there's enough width - no overgrowth on at least one side, I just signal my intent, pull over to one side or the other, and hover with the engine at tickover in gear, just enough forward movement to maintain control as the other boat goes past. As the other boat goes past I gradually increase revs in order to keep control and slow it down again when there stern is past my bow. I'm not sure this is best practice, but I've never had any problems doing it and it saves having to pull over and being pulled around by the centre line.

 

As for the noise, all other boats are probably as noisy as yours - trad boats with engine rooms have low engine noise, but quite a lot of exhaust, a modern trad will isolate a lot of noise inside, as will a semi trad. To the steerer, all of these designs are noisy, because the engine is right under their feet, but the cabin sides and top isolates it from the outside. By way of example, I was moving through Milton Keynes last year and a chap walking on the bank said something to me, but I couldn't hear him, so I knocked the revs back to idle and asked him if he could repeat what he said "I said that's a lovely quiet boat" he said. Hmm, not from where I was standing, clearly As for the wash, the shape of the swim and the depth the boat sits at will both affect that, but at the moment the lack of water in the canal probably has the biggest effect - I've just been up to fill with diesel and a stretch of the canal where I can normally travel at around 3mph with no wash whatsoever is currently seeing a large breaking wave from me at only 2mph.

 

Hope at least some of this is useful

 

Richard

[mayalld]

Nothing personal, but WHAT'S THE RUSH!!! If you've got an appointment ... get a car.

I seriously don't get anyone hurrying on a canal, if you are late getting a hire-boat back, try advance planning.

 

Nothing personal, but WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS?

 

If somebody wishes to travel at a speed that is not damaging the banks or other boats, and is below the speed limit, what is it that gives you the right to criticise them for wishing to do so?

 

You choose to boat as you wish, and allow others to do the same.

 

For reference, I don't like to travel permanently at tickover. It is harder work than it is at a slightly higher speed, it doesn't charge the batteries efficiently, and it limits the amount of the system that we can visit from our base.

 

Presuming to tell people that they should adopt the same attitude to boating as yourself is just arrogant in the extreme.

[OldGoat]

Several points arising:-

Boatsafe's "rules" are not so:-

The two long two short blasts are only listed on the PLA site and don't apply (or have not been adopted - perhaps, more politely) by either ICOS, BW or EA

The single blast means "I am changing my course to the right", or entering a waterway / moving off from a mooring.

 

The real issue for me as a following boat is that the slow boat in front is steering an erratic course / not paying attention / ignoring any signal from the boat behind; implying "s*d you, I'll do as I please". Those that do look behind occasionally, frequently inviter me to pass....

 

As a lead boat in question when someone is hanging on my arris, I frustrated because:-

I am already going as fast as that waterway can accommodate ( my swims are long and smooth and know his aren't.....)

OR

I know he's bullying me 'cos he hopes to pinch the next lock.

OR

he's ignorant and doesn't understand that canal cruising has a lot to do with appropriate speed and consideration for other users.

 

Happens on rivers too, but then the track is wider so the impatient person can go on his way without any hassle.

[Minos]

I don't think it's a case of some boaters wanting to travel faster - it's just that others want to travel slower than is necessary.

 

That's not a bad thing. After all, like so many other people, the whole purpose of my being on the water is to slow down. But 3mph on a waterway is a lot faster than some people think it is. Unless you're measuring your speed with a GPS (which I frequently do) all you've got to judge speed by is your senses - and there isn't much that is more subjective. I've just spent the day travelling up an down the same stretch of river with relatives on board, and if it wasn't for GPS and timing journeys I would have been unable to convince them I travelled both directions at the same absolute speed.

 

I'm waffling. Back to the point.

 

There is a minority of boaters who think that tickover is the only speed narrowboats should travel at. This can be a problem when you're behind them on the tidal Ouse, where my GPS once registered 14mph, and you're hoping to reach York by dark and the boat in front only wants to reach Naburn.

 

Annoying, yeah, but when I drive to work in rush hour I plan ahead expecting to get stuck behind those tossers who like to drive at 40mph on derestricted A roads. Same with waterways.

 

Expect delays.

[Higgs]

I thought there was a speed cap on the canal, above which no narrowboat should travel; any speed that chops the bank up, regardless of time-tables.

 

And, as long as you're paying attention ( both back and front ), with the boat under control; not causing hazard or obstruction, travel as slow as you want.

 

In the past I've travelled far too fast and it spoils the whole point of being on the canal. If someone wants to pass, I'd sooner let them by and let them disappear.

 

On the canal,.. I have permission to idle.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Higgs

[DickBrowne]

I thought there was a speed cap on the canal, above which no narrowboat should travel; any speed that chops the bank up, regardless of time-tables.

 

And, as long as you're paying attention ( both back and front ), with the boat under control; not causing hazard or obstruction, travel as slow as you want.

 

In the past I've travelled far too fast and it spoils the whole point of being on the canal. If someone wants to pass, I'd sooner let them by and let them disappear.

 

On the canal,.. I have permission to idle.

 

A couple of valid points in this post, I reckon - you DO have permission to idle, and where it's safe and convenient, letting others through to continue their journey at the speed they either want to or need to (for reasons known to themselves, but probably valid ones) means that you're more relaxed, they're more relaxed and whatever emergency has cropped up for which they were unable to plan ahead has a better chance of being attended to as quickly as possible.

 

If somebody wants to come past me, I'll always presume that they have a valid reason, rather than they're lock-stealers. After all, if it were a choice between letting them past and feeling the the mild annoyance which comes from seeing them laughing like drains as they ascend a lock before me, (when I know that they're not really playing the game, and there is a special circle of hell (one pound North of Purgatory) reserved for serial lock-stealers), or keeping them behind me and having the unmitigated sinking heart feeling when they explain to me as I ascend that lock myself and the steerer of the other boat explains that their youngest child was stung by a wasp, is allergic to wasp stings and the epi-pen has accidentally been left in the car toward which they are speeding, I know which I'd rather face.

 

I think our post is full of common sense, if nothing else, think of it as letting a wasp out of the car which is buzzing around in a really annoying way. The wasp doesn't want to be there, you don't want the wasp there, if you inconvenience yourself to the point opening a window a touch, out he goes, we're all happy. Actually, the wasp probably isn't, as the 70mph wind you've just let him into has caused his lungs to explode.

 

Do wasps have lungs? Sorry, this seems to have gone a bit off-topic

[Higgs]

Edited August 29, 2011 by Higgs

[Ex- Member]

A couple of valid points in this post, I reckon - you DO have permission to idle, and where it's safe and convenient, letting others through to continue their journey at the speed they either want to or need to (for reasons known to themselves, but probably valid ones) means that you're more relaxed, they're more relaxed and whatever emergency has cropped up for which they were unable to plan ahead has a better chance of being attended to as quickly as possible.

 

If somebody wants to come past me, I'll always presume that they have a valid reason, rather than they're lock-stealers. After all, if it were a choice between letting them past and feeling the the mild annoyance which comes from seeing them laughing like drains as they ascend a lock before me, (when I know that they're not really playing the game, and there is a special circle of hell (one pound North of Purgatory) reserved for serial lock-stealers), or keeping them behind me and having the unmitigated sinking heart feeling when they explain to me as I ascend that lock myself and the steerer of the other boat explains that their youngest child was stung by a wasp, is allergic to wasp stings and the epi-pen has accidentally been left in the car toward which they are speeding, I know which I'd rather face.

 

I think our post is full of common sense, if nothing else, think of it as letting a wasp out of the car which is buzzing around in a really annoying way. The wasp doesn't want to be there, you don't want the wasp there, if you inconvenience yourself to the point opening a window a touch, out he goes, we're all happy. Actually, the wasp probably isn't, as the 70mph wind you've just let him into has caused his lungs to explode.

 

Do wasps have lungs? Sorry, this seems to have gone a bit off-topic

 

Very good indeed.

 

There's a question in the new highway code exams that sometimes arises. Along these lines

 

You are driving at 30 mph in a 30 mph limit, a car drives close behind you flashing it's lights clearly wanting to pass, what should you do.

 

1. Drive faster to increase the driving distance between you and the car behind.

 

2. Dab your brakes in an attempt to deter the other driver from acting in such a way.

 

3. let the vehicle pass as soon as it is safe to do so.

 

4. Stay at 30mph and ignore the following vehicle.

 

Of course anyone with any common sense will know the answer, however it's one of the questions that many get wrong.

 

 

 

[Higgs]

Put my indicator on, moor up, then throw the wasp out the window. Did I fail?

[Sunset Rising]

The poor wasp will be totally lost. Why not do the decent thing, turn round and go back to where you were before letting him out.

[jez1954]

Do wasps have lungs? Sorry, this seems to have gone a bit off-topic

 

From Answers.com - No, insects do not have lungs, they have a system of small holes in their exoskeleton which allows air entry into a system of narrow tubes from which it can diffuse directly into their living tissues.

[Minos]

think of it as letting a wasp out of the car which is buzzing around in a really annoying way. The wasp doesn't want to be there, you don't want the wasp there, if you inconvenience yourself to the point opening a window a touch, out he goes, we're all happy. Actually, the wasp probably isn't, as the 70mph wind you've just let him into has caused his lungs to explode.

That's why I have spiders on my boat.

[Sir Nibble]

I recall not so long ago being one of a convoy of boats all stuck behind a boat travelling far too slowly. It was not only neccessary to keep selecting neutral but also bursts of forward and reverse just to keep enough rudder authority to not ground. The vista ahead was full of other boats doing the same in intermittant spurts of uncontrolled drifting followed by a bit of engine to regain control. The boat at the front was quite determined, like Petain at Verdun that "they shall not pass" and caused a situation fraught with peril and frustration by his determination to impose his personal decision as an enforced speed limit.

As for "If you're in a hurry you shouldn't be on the canal", why not take it to it's logical conclusion and stay on your mooring, what does it matter if you delay your journey by a year or two? Rather, if you have nowhere to go and no need to go there, save us all some bother and don't untie the ropes.