Hire Boat Numbers This Summer

[alan_fincher]

Usually if you boat in the summer holidays, as stated in another thread, you can expect to see lots of hire boats.

 

We have passed bases where the situation is much as I would expect, such as Wyvern Shipping, who operate over 30 boats, nearly all of which were absent from their home moorings.

 

But further up country, I have been struck by the numbers of boats tied up at the hire bases.

 

Rose Narrowboats at Brinklow had large numbers of their fleet tied up, not apparently just returned, or just going out. (Although they were also fitting out several new ones....)

 

Anglo Welsh at Great Heywood seemed to have large numbers of boats still there late in the day.

 

The outfit at Stone had lots of boats there today, although I think the possible explanation there might be that it is their main change-over day.

 

So are the hire fleets mostly well let in the peak of the summer season ? Or are some of them struggling, as I'm tempted to infer when passing their bases ?

[David Schweizer]

Usually if you boat in the summer holidays, as stated in another thread, you can expect to see lots of hire boats.

 

We have passed bases where the situation is much as I would expect, such as Wyvern Shipping, who operate over 30 boats, nearly all of which were absent from their home moorings.

 

But further up country, I have been struck by the numbers of boats tied up at the hire bases.

 

Rose Narrowboats at Brinklow had large numbers of their fleet tied up, not apparently just returned, or just going out. (Although they were also fitting out several new ones....)

 

Anglo Welsh at Great Heywood seemed to have large numbers of boats still there late in the day.

 

The outfit at Stone had lots of boats there today, although I think the possible explanation there might be that it is their main change-over day.

 

So are the hire fleets mostly well let in the peak of the summer season ? Or are some of them struggling, as I'm tempted to infer when passing their bases ?

 

We noticed that a lot of hire boats were still tied up at their bases at the end of July, and we saw virtually no family hirers when out cruising, most of the hire boats which we did see were occupied by one or two older childless couples. Perhaps it is a sign of the recession biting, a four berth boat seems to cost about £1500 for a week, which is a lot for a family.

[Midnight Rider]

I would say that a lot of hire boats have still been at base during the high season.

 

There is a small fleet of four at our marina & it is unusual to see two out at any time.

[alan_fincher]

We noticed that a lot of hire boats were still tied up at their bases at the end of July, and we saw virtually no family hirers when out cruising, most of the hire boats which we did see were occupied by one or two older childless couples. Perhaps it is a sign of the recession biting, a four berth boat seems to cost about £1500 for a week, which is a lot for a family.

On the other hand, when I think a load of companies probably used to ban huge single sex parties, it now seems far more commonplace.

 

Presumably they are now less fussy about where the business comes from if they can let the boats somehow? Perhaps they insist on a much bigger deposit ?

 

We had the "good fortune" to be behind 12 chaps dressed in sailor's hats setting off from Great Haywood on a "stag do" trip.

 

We were very surprised to find that having watched it be banged into a narrow lock from all the wrong angles, that the trainer was still on board at that stage!

 

Rather than showing them how to drop paddles and shut gates before leaving the lock the trainer said "you get going, and I'll sort all this out for you when you have gone".

[casper ghost]

The Llangollen canal has been chocca with hire boats this week so I expect most of the local bases are doing ok.

Casp'

[oasistoo]

Usually if you boat in the summer holidays, as stated in another thread, you can expect to see lots of hire boats.

 

We have passed bases where the situation is much as I would expect, such as Wyvern Shipping, who operate over 30 boats, nearly all of which were absent from their home moorings.

 

But further up country, I have been struck by the numbers of boats tied up at the hire bases.

 

Rose Narrowboats at Brinklow had large numbers of their fleet tied up, not apparently just returned, or just going out. (Although they were also fitting out several new ones....)

 

Anglo Welsh at Great Heywood seemed to have large numbers of boats still there late in the day.

 

The outfit at Stone had lots of boats there today, although I think the possible explanation there might be that it is their main change-over day.

 

So are the hire fleets mostly well let in the peak of the summer season ? Or are some of them struggling, as I'm tempted to infer when passing their bases ?

 

 

We have seen a very mixed picture this year!

 

Also talking to a few people at hire bases I think that more boats are going out on short breaks rather than full weeks or longer.

 

 

[Lady Muck]

We passed the Le Boat hire base at Benson on the Thames yesterday - quite a few of their Fleet there. It's quiet on the river for August. Did not have to share that many locks yesterday. We had no problems finding a mooring at 7pm last night.

[BEngo]

Usually if you boat in the summer holidays, as stated in another thread, you can expect to see lots of hire boats.

 

We have passed bases where the situation is much as I would expect, such as Wyvern Shipping, who operate over 30 boats, nearly all of which were absent from their home moorings.

 

But further up country, I have been struck by the numbers of boats tied up at the hire bases.

 

Rose Narrowboats at Brinklow had large numbers of their fleet tied up, not apparently just returned, or just going out. (Although they were also fitting out several new ones....)

 

Anglo Welsh at Great Heywood seemed to have large numbers of boats still there late in the day.

 

The outfit at Stone had lots of boats there today, although I think the possible explanation there might be that it is their main change-over day.

 

So are the hire fleets mostly well let in the peak of the summer season ? Or are some of them struggling, as I'm tempted to infer when passing their bases ?

 

 

In late June early July there were lots of hire boats tied up at Clifton, Stretton, Brewood, Gailey (where as well as plenty tied up four were on the bank, but without obvious work in hand), Penkridge, Great Haywood. All seemed to be out from Springwood and Stone.

 

N

[muddywaters]

On the other hand, when I think a load of companies probably used to ban huge single sex parties, it now seems far more commonplace.

 

Presumably they are now less fussy about where the business comes from if they can let the boats somehow? Perhaps they insist on a much bigger deposit ?

 

We had the "good fortune" to be behind 12 chaps dressed in sailor's hats setting off from Great Haywood on a "stag do" trip.

 

We were very surprised to find that having watched it be banged into a narrow lock from all the wrong angles, that the trainer was still on board at that stage!

 

Rather than showing them how to drop paddles and shut gates before leaving the lock the trainer said "you get going, and I'll sort all this out for you when you have gone".

On the paper work we have for our boking with Anglo Welsh, under managers discretion a security deposit of up to £250 may be required for some partys

[churchward]

Usually if you boat in the summer holidays, as stated in another thread, you can expect to see lots of hire boats.

 

We have passed bases where the situation is much as I would expect, such as Wyvern Shipping, who operate over 30 boats, nearly all of which were absent from their home moorings.

 

But further up country, I have been struck by the numbers of boats tied up at the hire bases.

 

Rose Narrowboats at Brinklow had large numbers of their fleet tied up, not apparently just returned, or just going out. (Although they were also fitting out several new ones....)

 

Anglo Welsh at Great Heywood seemed to have large numbers of boats still there late in the day.

 

The outfit at Stone had lots of boats there today, although I think the possible explanation there might be that it is their main change-over day.

 

So are the hire fleets mostly well let in the peak of the summer season ? Or are some of them struggling, as I'm tempted to infer when passing their bases ?

I guess it depends when you pass them. A glance on one day is hardly evidence.

 

Last weekend we went past Rose Narrowboats and the only boats tied up were a couple of days boats. I have never seen it as clear as it was.

[Teadaemon]

Ok, my experience is on the Broads rather than the canals, but still relevant.

 

Last year we were pretty much completely booked out for the whole of the summer holidays and a few weeks either side. We were turning around boats pretty much every day (one of our USPs is that we take bookings for holidays of any length, starting and finishing on any day of the week), and a typical Saturday would see us turning around 8-10 boats out of 14. I was working pretty much full time (5 or 6 days a week) for a lot of this period, although that was partly because one of our boats sank in mid-July and we were working flat out to get her refitted and back out on hire).

 

This year, the most boats we're turning around on a Saturday is five, there are normally at least a couple of boats in the yard at any time (frequently more), and we're getting far more people booking for short breaks rather than whole weeks or fortnights. I'm pretty much out of work ("we'll call you if we need you"), and my boss is seriously concerned about whether we'll make enough to see us through the winter. I know of at least two small yards (Whispering Reeds at Hickling and Topcraft at Oulton Broad) who're getting out of the hire boat business at the end of this season.

 

I can't really comment on how busy the rivers are, as my boat is above Potter Heigham, and so few boats get through these days that it's always fairly quiet up there compared to the rest of the Broads.

[journeyperson]

When I went through Middlewich last Tuesday morning every Andersens boat was out and there was just one Middlewich Narrowboat at the base. I saw a LOT of hire boats between Castlefield in Manchester and Nantwich.

[JonL]

Another Broads Comment

 

I was out on a hire boat from Horning last week - had to wait for the boat to be ready until 3.30pm on a Saturday - Ferry Marina seemd very busy.

The Northern rivers were busy but mooring was not a problem. When we crossed over Breydon onto the Southern Rivers it was like a ghost town - we actually went 30 minutes at a time without seeing another boat. I pulled onto an empty mooring outside the Ferry Inn at 5.30pm - 3/4 years ago if you wern't at a mooring by 3.00pm, you were mudweighting for the night.

 

The one hire fleet that seemed to be everywhere were Richardsons boats or should I call them tubs ! Seems like the "value" end of the market is still OK

[Teadaemon]

 

The one hire fleet that seemed to be everywhere were Richardsons boats or should I call them tubs ! Seems like the "value" end of the market is still OK

 

Given that Richardson's operate over 300 boats out of a total hire fleet of about 1200, it's no surprise that they seem to be everywhere. They also have a wide range of boats available, from the older, cheaper boats, to some of the highest spec boats on the Broads (the first of their new Broadsman 45 class went out just after Easter this year, and they're planning to build quite a few more of them in several styles (along with a 35 foot version in due course)).

 

Were you hiring from Ferry Marina? They've also been investing in new boats, both to their own design and new Alphacraft mouldings. I work (when I've got work) for Freedom Cruisers, based in the dyke next door to Ferry Marina.

[jelunga]

If you mean Valley Crujses at Springwood Haven Nuneaton tfe. Yea theg were all out when we came past a week or sk ago. But then they are the qyality end of the market.

 

In late June early July there were lots of hire boats tied up at Clifton, Stretton, Brewood, Gailey (where as well as plenty tied up four were on the bank, but without obvious work in hand), Penkridge, Great Haywood. All seemed to be out from Springwood and Stone.

 

N

 

Martham or Hickling? It really is lovely up there. We have4 Neil Smalley oils on our boat. One is the eel catchers hut in Heigham Sound area. Beautiful. I just wish they were connected to the canals by an unland route. Be great taking Luly Maud acriss Breydon Water

Ok, my experience is on the Broads rather than the canals, but still relevant.

 

Last year we were pretty much completely booked out for the whole of the summer holidays and a few weeks either side. We were turning around boats pretty much every day (one of our USPs is that we take bookings for holidays of any length, starting and finishing on any day of the week), and a typical Saturday would see us turning around 8-10 boats out of 14. I was working pretty much full time (5 or 6 days a week) for a lot of this period, although that was partly because one of our boats sank in mid-July and we were working flat out to get her refitted and back out on hire).

 

This year, the most boats we're turning around on a Saturday is five, there are normally at least a couple of boats in the yard at any time (frequently more), and we're getting far more people booking for short breaks rather than whole weeks or fortnights. I'm pretty much out of work ("we'll call you if we need you"), and my boss is seriously concerned about whether we'll make enough to see us through the winter. I know of at least two small yards (Whispering Reeds at Hickling and Topcraft at Oulton Broad) who're getting out of the hire boat business at the end of this season.

 

I can't really comment on how busy the rivers are, as my boat is above Potter Heigham, and so few boats get through these days that it's always fairly quiet up there compared to the rest of the Broads.

 

Martham or Hickling? It really is lovely up there. We have4 Neil Smalley oils on our boat. One is the eel catchers hut in Heigham Sound area. Beautiful. I just wish they were connected to the canals by an unland route. Be great taking Luly Maud acriss Breydon Water

Ok, my experience is on the Broads rather than the canals, but still relevant.

 

Last year we were pretty much completely booked out for the whole of the summer holidays and a few weeks either side. We were turning around boats pretty much every day (one of our USPs is that we take bookings for holidays of any length, starting and finishing on any day of the week), and a typical Saturday would see us turning around 8-10 boats out of 14. I was working pretty much full time (5 or 6 days a week) for a lot of this period, although that was partly because one of our boats sank in mid-July and we were working flat out to get her refitted and back out on hire).

 

This year, the most boats we're turning around on a Saturday is five, there are normally at least a couple of boats in the yard at any time (frequently more), and we're getting far more people booking for short breaks rather than whole weeks or fortnights. I'm pretty much out of work ("we'll call you if we need you"), and my boss is seriously concerned about whether we'll make enough to see us through the winter. I know of at least two small yards (Whispering Reeds at Hickling and Topcraft at Oulton Broad) who're getting out of the hire boat business at the end of this season.

 

I can't really comment on how busy the rivers are, as my boat is above Potter Heigham, and so few boats get through these days that it's always fairly quiet up there compared to the rest of the Broads.

[Teadaemon]

Martham or Hickling? It really is lovely up there. We have4 Neil Smalley oils on our boat. One is the eel catchers hut in Heigham Sound area. Beautiful. I just wish they were connected to the canals by an unland route. Be great taking Luly Maud acriss Breydon Water

 

Liberty Song lives at The Pleasure Boat on Hickling Broad, 'round the back of the pub, opposite Whispering Reeds (who're still going to be hiring houseboats, dayboats, and sailing boats, as well as doing work for private boat owners). The upper Thurne is definitely my favourite part of the Broads, and keeping the boat there is very handy as I mostly just go out for day sails with my little boy (mostly just on the Broad, or around to Horsey Mere if we've got a bit more time).

[Stephen Sugg]

I can't afford it, it'd cost over £1k to take my family (me and the wife and a five year old) away for a week during the summer hols which is a shame. I've been tempted to call up some hire companies to make them an offer, but never have (I emailed Black Prince a while ago but never got response).

 

My boating this year has been restricted to 30 minutes on the London Waterbus and 3 days in a canoe on August BH.

 

Sad really.

[Teadaemon]

I can't afford it, it'd cost over £1k to take my family (me and the wife and a five year old) away for a week during the summer hols which is a shame. I've been tempted to call up some hire companies to make them an offer, but never have (I emailed Black Prince a while ago but never got response).

 

My boating this year has been restricted to 30 minutes on the London Waterbus and 3 days in a canoe on August BH.

 

Sad really.

 

Unfortunately, the hire companies aren't really in a position to drop prices by much, if at all. At Freedom we've frozen prices since last year, despite costs rising in line or above inflation. Although we do sometimes do deals (although mostly at fairly short notice and advertised to previous hirers and those who've found us on Facebook and other social media sites), there's not much scope before it's less costly for us to leave the boat in the yard, where it doesn't need cleaning or engineering, isn't using gas, and is safe from accidental damage.

 

Chatting to other people who've been running yards a lot longer than us, they also pointed out that in the past when yards tried to offer big discounts to get all of their boats out, they found that more and more of their customers were choosing not to book until the last minute, as they knew they'd get a much better deal, even if they didn't have quite as much choice of boats to hire. That's not a good situation for a yard to be in, and not one that can be sustained for very long if they want to remain profitable.

[RobinR]

I can't afford it, it'd cost over £1k to take my family (me and the wife and a five year old) away for a week during the summer hols which is a shame. I've been tempted to call up some hire companies to make them an offer, but never have (I emailed Black Prince a while ago but never got response).

 

My boating this year has been restricted to 30 minutes on the London Waterbus and 3 days in a canoe on August BH.

 

Sad really.

 

Maybe time to invest in a shared ownership scheme - much more cost effective! Our 4 weeks this year (1 in March and 3 in June) have cost under £1000 all in!!

[Ray T]

On the north Oxford today we have seen:

 

3 Black Prince; 4 Rose; 4 Viking; 4 Grantham's Bridge boats and the Lime Farm Day boat out.

 

Also all the boats from Clifton Cruisers were out.

Edited August 14, 2011 by Ray T

[Lady Muck]

We just passed Caversham boats in Reading - every boat is out on hire.

[sebrof]

Unfortunately, the hire companies aren't really in a position to drop prices by much, if at all. At Freedom we've frozen prices since last year, despite costs rising in line or above inflation. Although we do sometimes do deals (although mostly at fairly short notice and advertised to previous hirers and those who've found us on Facebook and other social media sites), there's not much scope before it's less costly for us to leave the boat in the yard, where it doesn't need cleaning or engineering, isn't using gas, and is safe from accidental damage.

 

Chatting to other people who've been running yards a lot longer than us, they also pointed out that in the past when yards tried to offer big discounts to get all of their boats out, they found that more and more of their customers were choosing not to book until the last minute, as they knew they'd get a much better deal, even if they didn't have quite as much choice of boats to hire. That's not a good situation for a yard to be in, and not one that can be sustained for very long if they want to remain profitable.

 

You need a new accountant, who can advise you on marginal costing.

 

The marginal (additional) cost of letting a boat is fuel, cleaning, and a bit of wear and tear. The majority of your costs are fixed, and don't change whether the boat is on hire or not.

 

You could probably let a boat for £300 a week and be better off than not letting it, even if your normal rate is £1,000.

 

But I don't dispute that there are grave dangers in letting people know you are prepared to do a deal.

 

These are hard times, and you have my sympathy.

[Tiny]

From our base the hire fleet was mostly in a couple of weeks back but now every one is out. One understand the main office has stolen one of our engineers as we have too many. This means there is (with holidays) just one to cover call outs and give a full service to other marina boats which is just not on given the number of minor things he gets called out for (toilet blocked due to wet wipes though instructions say no wet wipes as they block the toilet - hirer say they didn't put them down.

[Teadaemon]

You need a new accountant, who can advise you on marginal costing.

 

The marginal (additional) cost of letting a boat is fuel, cleaning, and a bit of wear and tear. The majority of your costs are fixed, and don't change whether the boat is on hire or not.

 

You could probably let a boat for £300 a week and be better off than not letting it, even if your normal rate is £1,000.

 

But I don't dispute that there are grave dangers in letting people know you are prepared to do a deal.

 

These are hard times, and you have my sympathy.

 

Marginal costs don't include fuel (unless as part of the deal we include a full tank rather than take a refundable fuel deposit like we normally do), but do include gas, pump out (half a man hour plus electricity, water and blue), cleaning (internal and external, probably 3-4 man hours plus materials, electricity, and red diesel if we fire up the steam cleaner), engineering (an average of one man hour of skilled labour, assuming no major problems found), handover staff (at least an hour including river trial, often two), and wear and tear. I admit they're not huge, but they are significant, especially as a lot of the workforce are casual labour, so if they're not needed, they don't get paid (like me, and I'm one of the more skilled members of staff as I do engineering and handovers).

 

The bigger risk is damage (often caused by other boaters, so improving our already comprehensive handover procedure wouldn't reduce it significantly). It's a fair estimate that in high season up to 20% of our boats come back with some damage, and with an insurance excess of several hundred quid, we don't really have an option but to absorb the costs ourselves (we do take a non-refundable damage waiver as part of the hire charge, but that doesn't cover much more than breaking a few glasses or putting a couple of scrapes in the topsides).

 

Having said all of that, long term the biggest problem with doing deals is that people come to expect them and don't book 'till the last minute. That doesn't just affect profits, it also has a serious impact on cashflow, always a problem for businesses that are basically seasonal (even though we hire boats all year 'round, in the winter it's not unusual to only have one or two boats out at any time).

[onthecut]

One change we seem to have noticed is that there don't seem to be the usual batches of hirers, where they are all trailing one another. I guess that may be down to an increase in long weekend and other booking patterns, reducing the traditional Saturday afternoon stampede out of the hire bases.

 

Spoke to some very disgruntled hirers on the K & A recently who felt very let down the hire company hadn't made it clearer in their brochure what a slow, hard work canal it is and how relatively awkward to moor along. Definitely won't be a repeat booking there next year !

 

Mike.