"Middle Northwich" Grand Union Star Class Boats

[alan_fincher]

Our “new” boat Sickle is a “Middle Northwich” boat, making it one of the less common types of GUCCCo “Town” or “Star” boats. Just 8 pairs of Middle Northwich boats were built, and of the 8 motors built, only about 6 or 7 years later, half were cut down to 40 feet, and converted to ice-breakers by the Ministry of War Transport.

 

Matt Parrott with his excellent Web Site has done much work on the history of these boats, and I would like to carry on his efforts, and gather even more.

 

Some of the boats I have a fair idea about current status, others I do not.

 

I am very interested in anything anyone can tell me about any of the boats, all but one of which survive in one form or another.

 

The boats are....

 

Motors

 

79 Radiant

 

Full length unconverted – based Ellesmere Port ?

 

83 Sextans

 

One of the 40 foot ice-breakers, now lengthened by 10 feet from butty Thea and with a cabin conversion

 

84 Sickle

 

Another of the 40 foot ice-breakers. I know about this one!

 

89 Taygeta

 

Full length, unconverted Ex BW workboat fleet, recently seen at Stretton Stop

 

91 Theophilus

 

Another of the 40 foot ice-breakers – house boat at Little Venice

 

92 Tucana

 

Believed to be full length unconverted boat that went to “Moving On” project, confusingly renamed by BW as another Zodiac at some stage.

 

93 Tycho

 

Another of the 40 foot ice-breakers – the only one to retain its ice ram – owned by forum member.

 

100 Zodiac

 

Full length, part cabin conversion – normally based around Braunston area ?

 

Buttys

 

301 Leonids

 

Full length, cabin conversion, powered by hydraulic motor in elum.

 

343 Regulus

 

Full length unconverted – based Ellesmere port ?

 

350 Sarpedon

 

Full length and converted ? Was “Anna” at one stage, but now supposed to be “Sarpedon” again.

 

353 Scales

 

Full length, possibly with under cloth conversion ? Was the trip boat “Powys Princess”

 

370 Taurus

 

Full length ? No recent information ?

 

372 Thea

 

Motorised and 57 foot, converted with tug deck.

 

373 Thoth

 

Scrapped circa 1963/1964

 

378 Triagulum

 

Currently “Kestrel” I think, and I believe also owned by a forum member ?

 

If anybody can supply me with recent information on the status of any of these boats I would be most grateful.

 

Even better would be information relating to their history, either recently or longer ago.

 

I am particularly interested to learn more of the history of the 4 ice-breaker boats, Sextans, Theophilus & Tycho, along with our Sickle.

 

Only Tycho retains its ice ram, and picture evidence suggests that Sickle had lost hers by 1957. I am unclear when Sextans and Theophilus lost their rams, and I would be fascinated if anybody has a picture of Sickle, Sextans or Theophilus actually fitted with one.

 

Also Theophilus and Sextans were hire boats with Wyvern Shipping in the 1960s and 1970s. Did anybody here ever hire one, and have you got any pictures please ?

 

If you have any information, and don’t wish to post in the thread, please PM me, and I can supply an e-mail address to you.

 

Many thanks!

 

Alan.

[Liam]

Radiant is paired with its 'original' BUtty Regulus and is based at Ellesmere Port (not owned by the NWM but by Mike Turpin, a BMS member). Radiant and Regulus was at Brinklow either last year or the year before/ Radiant to have it's swan neck straightened and Radiant for new running gear if I remember rightly. Radiant still has the original Yarwoods cabin fitted (like Zodiac) but has a few BW alternations including a small extension. Powered by a Lister HA3.

 

As you are probably aware, Taygeta was sold through the BW auctions the same time as Ling, Ibex, Auriga etc. Last time I saw the boat it was down the arm at Brinklow having a bit of work done. It looked as though it had been fitted with new gunnels. That was a couple of weeks ago.

 

Triagulum is owned by Chris Pink but still retains the Willow Wren name of Kestrel (all after birds and water fowl).

 

Zodiac is owned by Sonia (a mate of Kez's) and still has the BW cabin, but more original is left than that of Radiants. Usually around the Braunston/Hillmorton area and does have a cabin extension forward of the engine room. Powered by a Lister HA3 again.

 

 

Only a bit of info but I hope it helps.

[alan_fincher]

Only a bit of info but I hope it helps.

Every little helps!

 

Sickle has an HA3, so I feel a bit of an HA3 theme coming on.

 

Do you know if Taygeta has gone to some kind of "heritage" group, or is it now just in private ownership ?

 

I did take some photos of it down the arm you refer to, as we were bring Sickle South. It is now painted out in a grey primer or undercoat.

[Paul H]

Taygeta is owned by one of the staff at Rose Narrowboata and needs a lot of work - it has been crudely overplated on the outside and the inside!

Paul

[alan_fincher]

Taygeta is owned by one of the staff at Rose Narrowboata and needs a lot of work - it has been crudely overplated on the outside and the inside!

Paul

Paul,

 

I don't have an issue with ex BW boats going to private individuals - in fact I hold the view I think I have seen you express that quite often they are better off with private individuals than a heritage group or trust.

 

Isn't odd though, that only a few years earlier BW withdrew lots of boats from an auction sale, in order that they could all go to chosen groups or trusts, in recognition of their "heritage" status!

 

It seems the same rule has not been applied to the more recent disposals ?

 

The patching on the back of Taygeta makes it an impossible boat not to recognise!

[Liam]

Taygeta is owned by one of the staff at Rose Narrowboata and needs a lot of work - it has been crudely overplated on the outside and the inside!

Paul

 

Hi Paul, do you mean the plating work carried out in it's BW days or has it had more recent over plating?

[Paul H]

The overplating of Taygeta done in Bw days

 

I hesitate to be drawn on my opinion on BW's disposal of heritage boats in recent years but it was a shambles and in most cases did not securethe best future for the boat or the best price for BW.

 

And Alan you must have a chat with Matt because I think he has extra bits of info and deductions which never made it on to his site.

 

Paul

[pete harrison]

I have been researching the history of all former G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. narrow boats for well over twenty years and the case of the Middle Northwich motors is far from secure. My opinions are not biased by websites but are based on my own research in archives, B.W.B. workshops, private collections (documents and photographs) e.t.c..

 

There is no doubt that SEXTANS, SICKLE, THEOPHILUS and TYCHO were requisitioned by the Ministry of War Transport and shortened into tug / ice boats. This is well documented and I see no reason to question the identity of these four boats.

 

The true identity of RADIANT, TAYGETA, TUCANA is much more questionable, the exception being ZODIAC which has its carrying fleet number 100 clearly corroded into its cabin side. All four of these motors (along with several other boats) were transferred to the South Western Division of 'British Waterways' in 1949 for use as maintenance boats. Initially these four boats retained their original names along with a maintenance boat fleet number. One of these motors was then put back into carrying service as SEVERN DOLPHIN (health registered as Worcester 212 - 26 June 1956) whilst the other three had there names removed and were referred to only by their maintenance fleet number. At some point these three boats were renamed, and clearly incorrectly so as the original ZODIAC acquired the Small Woolwich motor name DEIMOS and the name ZODIAC was allocated to another of these motors.

 

This leaves us with all 4 full length Middle Northwich motors being extant but at least two wrongly named. The motor ZODIAC at Braunston can be possitively identified by its carrying fleet number 100 on its cabin side, whilst Mr Hogg has evidence that SEVERN DOLPHIN was originally TAYGETA - hence both of these boats current names. The Middle Northwich motor recently leased to Moving Forward, Birmingham was the boat mistakenly renamed ZODIAC by British Waterways Board and this has taken the name TUCANA simply because it is the last name renaming from this 'class'. In my opinion this boat could just as easily be RADIANT, which in turn would mean that RADIANT at Ellesmere Port was also incorrectly identified by British Waterways Board. The owners of the boats currently identified as TUCANA and RADIANT are aware of this problem.

 

As these 4 boats were based at Gloucester / Sharpness I have spent days there searching for original documentation in an attempt to resolve this problem - obviously without success !

Edited May 25, 2011 by pete harrison

[alan_fincher]

And Alan you must have a chat with Matt because I think he has extra bits of info and deductions which never made it on to his site.

Yes, I hope to!

 

I have also tried a tentative e-Mail to Wyvern Shipping to see if they can tell me more about their acquisition of Sextans and Theophilus.

 

The Middle Northwich motor recently leased to Moving Forward, Birmingham was the boat mistakenly renamed ZODIAC by British Waterways Board and this has taken the name TUCANA simply because it is the last name renaming from this 'class'. In my opinion this boat could just as easily be RADIANT, which in turn would mean that RADIANT at Ellesmere Port was also incorrectly identified by British Waterways Board. The owners of the boats currently identified as TUCANA and RADIANT are aware of this problem.

Thanks Pete,

 

You are always a very clear voice about what the actual facts are amongst the guesses.

 

I understand now.

 

I'm puzzled by posts by Mr Hogg on a different forum that imply that at one point there appeared to be 9 motors accounted for, when there were only 8 built. I wasn't able to follow that, or also why he questioned whether Theophilus was an ice-breaker, or one of the "Wyvern" boats. I worked at Wyvern while they had these two boats. I wish I had questioned "The Major" more about them now!

[pete harrison]

Thanks Pete,

 

You are always a very clear voice about what the actual facts are amongst the guesses.

 

I understand now.

 

I'm puzzled by posts by Mr Hogg on a different forum that imply that at one point there appeared to be 9 motors accounted for, when there were only 8 built. I wasn't able to follow that, or also why he questioned whether Theophilus was an ice-breaker, or one of the "Wyvern" boats. I worked at Wyvern while they had these two boats. I wish I had questioned "The Major" more about them now!

 

I have a transcript of the Bulls Bridge card that details the Ministry of War Transport requisition / conversion of THEOPHILUS to an ice boat. I also have a copy of the British Waterways Board tender form listing THEOPHILUS for sale as a 44'0'' x 7'0'' steel boat with no engine. Wyvern Shipping Company acquired both THEOPHILUS and SEXTANT (sic) as a direct result of this sale.

[Paul H]

One of the interesting things about Theophilus is the staggered rows of bolt heads down the sides which I understand are a legacy of timber baulks which were initially fitted down the sides of the icebreaker conversions.

Presumably on wide canals only.

Paul

[alan_fincher]

I also have a copy of the British Waterways Board tender form listing THEOPHILUS for sale as a 44'0'' x 7'0'' steel boat with no engine. Wyvern Shipping Company acquired both THEOPHILUS and SEXTANT (sic) as a direct result of this sale.

When was that auction, please, Pete ?

 

If it says 44 feet, I suppose it could imply that the ram was still present ?

 

Were they listed as ice-breakers, please ?

[pete harrison]

When was that auction, please, Pete ?

 

If it says 44 feet, I suppose it could imply that the ram was still present ?

 

Were they listed as ice-breakers, please ?

 

The closing date for this tender was 06 November 1964.

 

THEOPHILUS and SEXTANT (sic) were listed as "Narrow", "Steel", with no mention of "ice" or "tug".

[alan_fincher]

The closing date for this tender was 06 November 1964.

 

THEOPHILUS and SEXTANT (sic) were listed as "Narrow", "Steel", with no mention of "ice" or "tug".

Thanks Pete.

 

I have a 1971 brochure for Wyvern Shipping that lists "Hesperus" (Sextans) and Theophilus as "Built for the 1967 season" which implies Wyvern took a couple of years to turn them out as hire boats.

 

One thing is that Theophilus retains far more of her ice ram as her current stem than do Sickle or Sextans. This tends to make me think that it was not the same people who cut the ram of Theophilus and those who cut it from Sextans, so probably not Wyvern ? Unless they did one, then thought they could do the next one better, of course!

 

The story I was told at Wyvern was that one of the boats was acquired for a fiver, because there was no reserve, and nobody else bid......

 

EDITED TO ADD some relatively recent images.....

 

Sextans

 

 

 

Theophilus (For those who prefer "cruiser stern"! )

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Pluto]

Paul,

 

I don't have an issue with ex BW boats going to private individuals - in fact I hold the view I think I have seen you express that quite often they are better off with private individuals than a heritage group or trust.

 

Isn't odd though, that only a few years earlier BW withdrew lots of boats from an auction sale, in order that they could all go to chosen groups or trusts, in recognition of their "heritage" status!

The main benefit of boats going to groups rather than individuals is that public access should be routine, and that public access makes it a heritage boat rather than a historic boat. I am involved with Kennet on the L&LC, and what worried me about the takeover by groups was that there was no fallback position should the group fail to maintain the boat. I inserted a clause in our agreement that, should the L&LC Society be unable to continue looking after Kennet, she would pass to the Yorkshire Waterways Museum who would arrange suitable disposal. Unfortunately, we seem to have been the only group which has addressed this downside of group ownership. I think BW should have insisted on all the 'heritage' boats having similar clauses in their agreements, but it is too late now.

 

Of course one benefit that a group can get is access to the Heritage Lottery Fund. The L&LC Society is awaiting a decision on our application for funding for Kennet. If you would like to visit Kennet, she is at the Saltaire Arts Festival this weekend, and currently has a display about the traditional paintwork on L&LC boats. We will also be at the heritage event at Burscough over the last weekend in June, and at Crooke the following weekend.

[Tam & Di]

 

301 Leonids

 

Full length, cabin conversion, powered by hydraulic motor in elum.

 

 

 

A couple of shots of Leonids in the early 1980s.

Towcester & Leonids (nos.1 and 7 in our own fleet) are of course at Lady Capel's. Steerers are Andy Farquarson and Sandy Macdonald, who delivered the final 33t load to Boxmoor in October 1981 immediately before L. Rose relocated to Corby. The snow shot is at Bull's Bridge.

 

Coincidently Leonids was a houseboat powered by hydraulic drive when we bought it at Bishop's Stortford. We are on Friesland at the moment and I can't remember offhand any details of when we bought and subseqently sold it. Towcester and Leonids were my very favourite pairing. Lots of boatmen told us they didn't like the middle Northwich boats as they rolled too much, but we did not find that - they certainly swam very well. Although they did not load as much as the big boats that was a fairly irrelevant distinction by the 1980s as it was difficult to load any boat fully unless you were out on the Thames or somewhere like that.

 

 

 

edited to flesh out detail

Edited May 26, 2011 by Tam & Di

[sociable_hermit]

I love both of those photos! Especially the second one.

[Timleech]

Every little helps!

 

Sickle has an HA3, so I feel a bit of an HA3 theme coming on.

 

Do you know if Taygeta has gone to some kind of "heritage" group, or is it now just in private ownership ?

 

I did take some photos of it down the arm you refer to, as we were bring Sickle South. It is now painted out in a grey primer or undercoat.

 

 

Severn Dolphin (as it was then) had an HA3 at the time BW 'reclaimed' it after being on hire to some group or another, I should somewhere have a murky pic of John Jinks breaking about 3" of ice with her (full length, no fancy bow) with no great difficulty. I think BW later changed the HA3 for an HR2, may be wrong?

 

Tim

[pete harrison]

Severn Dolphin (as it was then) had an HA3 at the time BW 'reclaimed' it after being on hire to some group or another, I should somewhere have a murky pic of John Jinks breaking about 3" of ice with her (full length, no fancy bow) with no great difficulty. I think BW later changed the HA3 for an HR2, may be wrong?

 

Tim

 

British Waterways Board claimed SEVERN DOLPHIN / TAYGETA had a Lister HR2 when for sale in the October 2009 auction. My records suggest this engine was fitted in about 1992 and replaced a Lister HA3.

 

I photographed SEVERN DOLPHIN renamed as TAYGETA on the River Thames, Oxford on 08 August 1991. At that time it was on lease to an 'enthusiast' who was retailing coal along with the butty LEONIDS (also on lease). When I took my photographs TAYGETA was still partially loaded but LEONIDS was sunk with only half of the cabin top and cratch remaining above water level.

[Timleech]

British Waterways Board claimed SEVERN DOLPHIN / TAYGETA had a Lister HR2 when for sale in the October 2009 auction. My records suggest this engine was fitted in about 1992 and replaced a Lister HA3.

 

I photographed SEVERN DOLPHIN renamed as TAYGETA on the River Thames, Oxford on 08 August 1991. At that time it was on lease to an 'enthusiast' who was retailing coal along with the butty LEONIDS (also on lease). When I took my photographs TAYGETA was still partially loaded but LEONIDS was sunk with only half of the cabin top and cratch remaining above water level.

 

Actually my memory may be less than perfect, the ice breaking etc was probably before it was hired out. I think you are right, it came back half-painted in funny colours (partly orange IIRC), and with a hole in the bottom.

The sides were doubled many years ago by BW, probably a Northwich Repair Yard job (typical sound but heavy-handed job), I doubled some of the bottom (a bit more than half the hold, IIRC) for BW after it came back, and the hold sides were doubled internally by a contractor after the ragged original plating was deemed a safety hazard. I think it was finally withdrawn from use by BW because the ragged gunwales were likewise declared hazardous and no more money was going to be spent.

 

Tim

[Laurence Hogg]

Hi All,

Just spent the last two days glass blasting "Tucana" at Aston Manor transport museum. Hull is in remakable condition overall with only one rivet blown off and one perforated plate. There is a thread on this section which I will update with pictures once the site issue uploading problem is sorted. We also found an "masons mark" (shipbuilders mark?) on the stem, definatly deliberate and obscured for years.

[mykaskin]

Hi All,

Just spent the last two days glass blasting "Tucana" at Aston Manor transport museum. Hull is in remakable condition overall with only one rivet blown off and one perforated plate. There is a thread on this section which I will update with pictures once the site issue uploading problem is sorted. We also found an "masons mark" (shipbuilders mark?) on the stem, definatly deliberate and obscured for years.

It isn't a round marking on the plate steel saying "Coppered Steel" is it? If so, I've got a few dotted around Victoria that have survived the years.

[RogerM]

Spotted this butty at Paddington Basin the day before yesterday. No visible name but the chines, as far as I could see them, appeared rounded and according to Jim Shead's listing the registration idenifies her as TAURUS:

http://rpmtest.weebly.com/page-2.html

[josiejo]

on the bow you can still see the yellow and green paint from when it worked for three fellows carrying on the river trent. in fact it has not had much paint in the last 30 years where has it been and why is it there .

[Speedwheel]

Spotted this butty at Paddington Basin the day before yesterday. No visible name but the chines, as far as I could see them, appeared rounded and according to Jim Shead's listing the registration idenifies her as TAURUS:

http://rpmtest.weebly.com/page-2.html

 

Hmmm, I wouldn't mind that. Would go with mine very nicely