Boaters' Pies

[Catrin]

Re reading "Idle Women" for the umpteenth time (the best of the "Trainee's memoirs" - in my opinion), I came across the concept of "boaters' pies", which seemed to be some kind of special, off ration, food for working boaters.

 

Has anyone any information about what they were and what they might have contained and also how this worked in wartime. Did all working boaters get some kind of additional ration of "boaters' pies"? I have got the impression that only some canal side outlets had them, but I haven't worked out how this fitted in with rationing.

Cheers

Cath

[nb Innisfree]

PIES, sanity in a mad world

[Caprifool]

From WW2 Peoples War.

 

"Miranda was left on the butty, Kay was taken by Kit on the motor. I was given a piece of' Boater's Pie' to fill the increasing gap in my middle. It's very good 'Boater's Pie' either hot or cold and is much like Cornish Pasty made of mince and cold potato. I ate and listened to -them start the engine."

[Derek R.]

My Grandfather had one ear larger than the other. When caught in a storm in a snowdrift, the wind took hold of his ear and spun him around so fast, he was screwed into the drift. Took them a week to dig him out. Same with boaters, they had ears bigger on one side than the other, and if caught out, they and their boat would be spun around. There was special places along the cut for this to happen called winding holes.

 

I'm reminded of Bowler hats, boaters uniforms and boaters songs. Much made up for the story telling, dressing up, and playing a part.

 

Boater's rations no different to anyone elses - and hard come by. Pies from a local shop. Meat and potato. Steak and kidney. Minced beef. Beef and onion. Pop em in the range to warm. Don't reckon much real cooking was ever done on boat ranges given the working day as it was, and where to store the ingredients? Basic grub, shop bought. Boil a few spuds, carrots and what could be got. Fry some bacon rashers. Doorsteps. Tea with powdered milk, hence the chimney extensions of dried milk tins, condensed milk for some, I'll wager fresh was seldom used. Clothing from way back or a jumble stall, with something better for Sundays maybe. Songs that were basically from the music halls. Much later stuff was made up to tell stories about 'The Good Old Days' and boating with Bolinders - as are many of the stories, and Arthur Bray could tell a few or so I've heard.

 

No disrespect intended but that account of boater's pie from Mrs. Jean Peters also contains forty foot boat poles and gates at Hatton that were connected by wires so that opening one opened the other. Memories do play tricks, and the listeners listen.

 

'Ooman nature that is.

 

Edited to add: The Red Lion in Wendover used to have a restaurant that served 'Power Cut Pie'. Louise and I ate there when we first met, and right tasty it was too. Why Power Cut pie? Because when the power was cut, they just grabbed hold of anything in the dark and put it in. It's a story, so it must be true.

 

'Star Gazey Pie' - because the fish heads were placed looking out from the pie and gazing starwards.

Edited May 11, 2011 by Derek R.

[Hairy-Neil]

Great story, perhaps?

 

Chris Tarrant, standing in for Steve Wright yesterday, told a story of a man from Slough who worked at the huge chocolate factory in the town. Stopped by the police, the man was asked....

 

"what's your name?"

 

"Rocket"

 

"Where are you going?"

 

Mars!

 

A great story perhaps? I first remember hearing the story over 40 years ago, but then, my father worked for Mars c.1962 - 1966 and a colleague of his was indeed a Mr Rocket. I attended local schools with Rocket kids....

 

Edited to add: The Red Lion in Wendover used to have a restaurant that served 'Power Cut Pie'. Louise and I ate there when we first met, and right tasty it was too. Why Power Cut pie? Because when the power was cut, they just grabbed hold of anything in the dark and put it in. It's a story, so it must be true.

 

My mother used to bulk buy food products. When there was a special offer running, she would buy sufficient in one hit to apply and send off for the gift immediatly she got home. This often meant there would be a stash of tins in the larder with the labels removed. There was a certain knack to shaking the tins in an attempt to ascertain whether they contained baked beans or fruit pie filling. She wasn't always successful, so we had the occasional unusual meal.

[Derek R.]

Did you ever get prunes and peas together? There's a thought!

[mykaskin]

I may be wrong, but I thought I'd heard that the GUCCCo had asked for extra rations, but didn't get them. They did however get a good deal with a Pie factory along the canal... not sure where from though.

 

Mike

[Chertsey]

I think that somewhere in Idle Women, Woolfit expounds on the iniquity of the fact that boaters didn't get extra rations.

 

Which is not to say that the 'boaters' pie' didn't exist - maybe one particular shop or bakery sold something that came to be known by that name? Don't forget that Woolfit was herself a newcomer to the waterways and might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick re. their universality.

 

 

My mother used to bulk buy food products. When there was a special offer running, she would buy sufficient in one hit to apply and send off for the gift immediatly she got home. This often meant there would be a stash of tins in the larder with the labels removed. There was a certain knack to shaking the tins in an attempt to ascertain whether they contained baked beans or fruit pie filling. She wasn't always successful, so we had the occasional unusual meal.

When I worked in Sainsbury's back in the early eighties they would sell label-less tins to staff, and the vastly reduced prices were a great incentive to take a chance. Most things are reasonably easy to identify, but the cat ended up eating a lot of dog food.

[tony collins]

My father in law was a train driver. Not one of your fast express main line drivers, (althjough he did a bit of that later in his life), as a result he was often sat in a siding waiting the for the express to come past. Some of his activities whilst waiting often resulted in there being "something for the pot". Consequently Rabbit pie made a regular appearance on the table at home. I don't think that Boaters would be any different to Dad, so Boaters' Pie might equally have been "home sourced" or the result of entreprenurial activity by some quick witted local. It might therefore contain anything suitable (or otherwise) that came to hand.

[Chertsey]

My father in law was a train driver. Not one of your fast express main line drivers, (althjough he did a bit of that later in his life), as a result he was often sat in a siding waiting the for the express to come past. Some of his activities whilst waiting often resulted in there being "something for the pot". Consequently Rabbit pie made a regular appearance on the table at home. I don't think that Boaters would be any different to Dad, so Boaters' Pie might equally have been "home sourced" or the result of entreprenurial activity by some quick witted local. It might therefore contain anything suitable (or otherwise) that came to hand.

Undoubtedly, but I think in this case the author is referring to something purchased in pie form. I like Mykaskin's explanation - it has a ring of plausibility.

[RLWP]

Is it like Windmill pudding? If it goes round, you'll get some

 

Richard

[jeannette smith harrison]

My Dad remembers a pie factory where they use to deliver flour Emscote Mill in Warwickshire. he recalls pies with thick pastry & meat with thick juicy gravy that ran down your chin when you bit into them.Nan often made her version of boatmans pie contents where hare or rabbit out of a trap with whatever veg she had mixed in & a thick pastry top.She would often make a rabbit stew in a large pot that was put onto the range fist thing in the morning & left on all day untill they tied up at night.fresh eggs & veg often came from lock keepers who all seemed to have chickens & large vegtable patches or somtimes a passing farm for milk ect this was in exchange for a little of the goods they had on board at the time or the coal that fell off the boat!!!.they often carried milk powder,powdered eggs, flour & lots more edible goods a true Boatman was never greedy he would only take a little for his family.This was known to the company & was accepted.also things growing along the path where edible. I asked my dad & he remembers the ration book but they never had time to stop & queue except for when they where waiting to be loaded or unloaded.

[BuckbyLocks]

Re reading "Idle Women" for the umpteenth time (the best of the "Trainee's memoirs" - in my opinion), I came across the concept of "boaters' pies", which seemed to be some kind of special, off ration, food for working boaters.

 

Has anyone any information about what they were and what they might have contained and also how this worked in wartime. Did all working boaters get some kind of additional ration of "boaters' pies"? I have got the impression that only some canal side outlets had them, but I haven't worked out how this fitted in with rationing.

Cheers

Cath

Boaters' Pies certainly existed. Otherwise known as Lord Walton's Pies or more properly Lord Woolton's Pies they were principally vegetable filled, with a meat sauce due to the difficulty of obtaining meat. They were available at canalside shops, certainly at Fenny Stratford and Buckby Wharf on the GU. They did not keep very well and if sales were slow it was likely that the eater would suffer serious stomach ache! All of the books written by the Trainee Canal Boatwomen mention them.

No extra rations were available to boaters until late in the war when extra Tea and Sugar rations were given to them. As many shops would only allow 'regular' shoppers to buy rationed items boaters tended to use a limited number of shops where they were 'known'. Fresh milk was often obtained from farms along the way.

[Catrin]

Sorry to dredge this one up again, but.... I do like to close things off, and also something else that I have been reading made me think of this again.

 

I re-read all the "women trainee" books again over the summer, and yes, the "boater's pies" do appear to have been Lord Woolton's pies, available to the "Idle Women" at various GU canal locations, including Buckby locks. Correctly mentioned, the women were not given any additional rations, but were able to buy these pies. Also correctly, they did go bad quickly, and caused a number of upset stomachs.

 

I have recently been reading a book about the code breakers at Bletchley Park, and Lord Woolton's pies are mentioned there, as part of the description of the terrible food that people had to put up with.

 

There is a Wikipedia entry, and recipes are easy to find on the Internet.

 

I'm now wondering if I should try to recreate one of these for the Stoke Bruerne Village at War next weekend (and cook it on the epping range in Sickle).

[Chertsey]

 

 

I'm now wondering if I should try to recreate one of these for the Stoke Bruerne Village at War next weekend (and cook it on the epping range in Sickle).

Of course you should!

And the worse it turns out, the more authentic it will be!

[Derek R.]

It may be the right place for Stirrup pumps . . . .

 

Did the noble Lord have an odd sense of humour?

[Chertsey]

It does strike me as strange however that these pies had a reputation for keeping badly and making people ill, as they didn't contain any meat, which is usually the culprit in cases of food poisoning.

[Catrin]

It does strike me as strange however that these pies had a reputation for keeping badly and making people ill, as they didn't contain any meat, which is usually the culprit in cases of food poisoning.

I did wonder about that too. One of the "Idle Women" talks about someone else being ill after eating a mildewed "boater's pie", while she had thrown hers overboard. I can only assume that with no refrigeration, a shortage of food, and no concept of 'sell by dates', then all kinds of rubbish might have been sold.

 

The recipes vary quite a lot, some appear to be potato topped vegetables, but if they were sold in shops (and I assume no foil containers) they must have had been contained in pastry.

[XAlan W]

I did wonder about that too. One of the "Idle Women" talks about someone else being ill after eating a mildewed "boater's pie", while she had thrown hers overboard. I can only assume that with no refrigeration, a shortage of food, and no concept of 'sell by dates', then all kinds of rubbish might have been sold.

 

The recipes vary quite a lot, some appear to be potato topped vegetables, but if they were sold in shops (and I assume no foil containers) they must have had been contained in pastry.

 

There was a shop on the Radford side of Lemington that still sold either the Lord W or something very similar, up until the mid 60`s they were similar in appearance to the modern day PUKKA pies although containing very little or no meat the insides were similar to Cornish pasties [ carrots, peas,potatos,sometimes green beans.]They were rectangular with rounded corners & came in a cardboard tray. IIRC there were 2 sizes the smaller ones were 4d & the larger ones 6d. With a bit of meat & extra gravy they made a reasonable meal.Used to always ask if they were fresh, to which always came the reply, Fresh in this morning, Can not remember ever being ill from eating those ones.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

My grandmother widowed in the first world war at when Grandad died at Gallipoli used to make a living taking pies and pudding from workers down to the bakers and using the residual heat in the oven to cook them.