Ex-hire boat purchase.

[Windfola]

I live close to Oxfordshire Narrowboats, who regularly convert their ex-hire boats to sell on. I've been to have a look and they seem nicely fitted out (haven't seen one converted for private use yet, but plan to if I can). They say they will remove the extra births as needed and make an open plan area if requested as part of the sale price.

 

They are mostly Colecraft built boats. They say they are serviced weekly and blacked as needed, and will re-paint the hull in your chosen colours to remove the 'hireboat' image.

 

Has anyone bought an ex-hire boat before? How do they compare to any other second hand boat? Also how do Colecraft boats rate in general?

[Proper Job]

They always seem to be well looked after during their hire time.

 

They turn the boats over fairly frequently. 10+ shells were delivered to Heyford last Winter.

 

Take a trip to Heyford Wharf. They fit them out there. It'll give you a good idea as to what standard they're built to.

[steelaway]

I live close to Oxfordshire Narrowboats, who regularly convert their ex-hire boats to sell on. I've been to have a look and they seem nicely fitted out (haven't seen one converted for private use yet, but plan to if I can). They say they will remove the extra births as needed and make an open plan area if requested as part of the sale price.

 

They are mostly Colecraft built boats. They say they are serviced weekly and blacked as needed, and will re-paint the hull in your chosen colours to remove the 'hireboat' image.

 

Has anyone bought an ex-hire boat before? How do they compare to any other second hand boat? Also how do Colecraft boats rate in general?

 

 

Have you looked at Black Prince sell off's....................Black Prince

 

 

Alex

[muddywaters]

Have you looked at Black Prince sell off's....................Black Prince

 

 

Alex

Black Prince Boats we have hired have always been to a very high standard.

So would imagine them to be good boats to buy.

If I ever saw a Shire Cruisers boat for sale would consider buying from them as well, if they where selling one the right size

[bottle]

I believe Oxfordshire and Black Prince sell them off when about 3 years old but one other company Alvechurch (own lots of other names) sell them when a lot older, nothing wrong with that but they will be well used.

[magpie patrick]

I bought Ripple, ex clifton, when she had been in fleet five years. I used her for five years, did precious little other than having the engine services and the hull blacked and putting diesel in when required. Sold her five years later, somewhere around 1000 miles and 1000 locks of more or less trouble free boating.

 

Shower pump failed

Alternator failed

fuel pump needed replacing

three drive belts in my ownership

One blocked loo that was the reason I first posted here

I added a handrail for the back steps

I enlarged to rear loo compartment to be a wet room as well

I shortened the table by two inches so it didn't catch my marital landing gear when I edged round it

 

And that's it, many new boats fair worse than that in five years

 

Oh, I had to get three new batteries, but that was my own fault for not turning the electrics off when we left the boat for a while

[Davidss]

What you will tend to find with all hire boats, from experienced firms, is the 'easy access' layout of kit that requires servicing or replacement, like pumps and filters. Although I'm not up with current trends, you may also find some pumps etc are duplicated, so if one should fail it's easy for a visiting fitter to put the alternative in service, and let the holiday continue, leaving the replacement until the boat gets back to it's to the home yard. This concentration on easy access may mean there is less cupboard space than you might find in a private boat.

 

The concept is that turn round time is limited, so both the domestic cleaning crew and the mechanical maintenance crew need to be able to work easily and quickly. This may result in the interiors being a little simpler and more plain jane than a private boat. On the other hand, the boats lead a harder live than any private boat - over the season cupboard doors are opened more often, and with less consideration, than on a private boat, so hinges and catches have to be robust. This also affects the engineering aspects, pumps or wiring connections that fail will soon get weeded out, so the minor parts will be of good quality.

 

For any given length, hire boats will tend to have more bunks than a private boat (Are We Nearly There Yet? being an exception:-)). This is recognised by the offer to alter the interior layout by removing a couple of bunks.

 

I would say that in principle they make an excellent buy, certainly a first buy, when you have yet to find out what is really important to you, and a boat that works reliably in the background, and minimises the hassle, is going to be significant in your enjoyment of the 'new life'.

Within that, there will be 'good' and 'better'. Budget no doubt comes into play somewhere along the line.

 

Good Luck.

[Windfola]

Thanks all - that's helpful. I have checked out Black Prince and they have a yard near me, so may try and visit tomorrow. I'll see if I can find the other two companies you mention too.

 

I popped over to Heyford this afternoon and saw round a 57 footer. The salesman showed me what adaptations they would include in the price (removal of excess bunks, bathrooms and giving a bigger, open plan saloon). They will even repaint the outside in a colour of my choice, with the new name as well, all included for £60,000.

 

However the inverter is just 800kw. There is Eberspacher heating and a Surecal calorifier and they will also add a Morso stove and LED lighting. Other adaptations would be at extra cost.The engine is an Isuzu. However when I asked about trying one out on the cut for an hour, he said 'why would you want to do that?' and said no one ever does that because 'what you see is what you get'.

 

The other thing I am wondering is what else might not be included that I would need for a liveaboard?

 

Does it seem like good value for a 3/4 year old boat?

Edited April 28, 2011 by Windfola

[Janet S]

If I ever saw a Shire Cruisers boat for sale would consider buying from them as well

 

Us also! A very well maintained fleet.

 

Janet

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

I'd vote for an ex hire boat.

 

Tawny Owl is ex Alvechurch. She was about 15 years old when she came off hire. She's very strong and well built, hull sides have plenty of "character" but no major faults otherwise.

 

We had to have the engine rebuilt within a few months but other than that no major unexpected expenses.

 

Ex hire was our only real choice, we wanted to be able to take friends out with us, and no private boat we could find had more than 4 beds, no use at all if you want to be sociable.

 

Quite basic by today's standards, no 240v, washing machine or tv etc, but she's fine for us.

 

I'd certainly look at ex hire again if we ever wanted a change.

 

Sue

[Guest]

However when I asked about trying one out on the cut for an hour, he said 'why would you want to do that?' and said no one ever does that because 'what you see is what you get'.

 

but you will be having a survey done and buying subject to that surely???

 

As to Colecraft shells, ours seems fine after 5 years use (not a huge amount in narrow boat terms) - but as a company they have been in the game for decades, in the boating world that's not a given.

 

Isuzu engines are reputed to be indestructible...subject to the correct maintenance. The dial panels are reputed to be crap though.

 

Hireboats are generally built to take a few knocks inside, so are built to take this, you may lose some of this durability in any re-fit/layout alterations though - pin them down on the spec. of the work and materials to be used though,

 

- £60K to have a boat supplied/altered to a layout to suit you sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[mrsmelly]

Thanks all - that's helpful. I have checked out Black Prince and they have a yard near me, so may try and visit tomorrow. I'll see if I can find the other two companies you mention too.

 

I popped over to Heyford this afternoon and saw round a 57 footer. The salesman showed me what adaptations they would include in the price (removal of excess bunks, bathrooms and giving a bigger, open plan saloon). They will even repaint the outside in a colour of my choice, with the new name as well, all included for £60,000.

 

However the inverter is just 800kw. There is Eberspacher heating and a Surecal calorifier and they will also add a Morso stove and LED lighting. Other adaptations would be at extra cost.The engine is an Isuzu. However when I asked about trying one out on the cut for an hour, he said 'why would you want to do that?' and said no one ever does that because 'what you see is what you get'.

 

The other thing I am wondering is what else might not be included that I would need for a liveaboard?

 

Does it seem like good value for a 3/4 year old boat?

Hi

I was until recently a hire fleet supervisor ( amongst other jobs ) for oxfordshire narrowboats and am at present cruising with a friend who lives on a x hire 57 footer. They handle well and on the plus side they are over powered so loads of grunt if you go tidal they also have prm 260 gearbox which is well on top of the jobe, python drives etc.

As for only a small inverter well they are a doddle to replace should you feel the need for a bigger one.

On the down side as a liveaboard they have too many large windows and definately need a bit of a change inside and a multi fuel stove fitting. My friend Paul took out the two silly pump out tanks and fitted a proper boat toilet and got rid of one bathroom this made a good job of the inside.

I think they make a good purchase.

[Windfola]

On the down side as a liveaboard they have too many large windows

 

I rather like the idea of bigger windows, mainly because I like lots of light. Is the objection because of security, or something else?

 

Oh and your endorsement sounds encouraging, MrSmelly.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Windfola

[mrsmelly]

I rather like the idea of bigger windows, mainly because I like lots of light. Is the objection because of security, or something else?

 

Oh and your endorsement sounds encouraging, MrSmelly.

 

Hi

I am a porthole guy myself but dont mind windows if that floats ya boat. No I was not knocking the extra windows from the light point of view its just that they do make daytime privacy somewhat non existant and they let lots of heat out in the winter and make the boat very very hot in the summer. As for security if they want to get in the number of windows is irrelevant. A good tip could be like many do they remove a window each side and fit a nice wide opening side hatch in its place a very handy improvement for air in the summer and passing stuff out for the barby Bye the way I used to live in Chippy, I ran a pub just up the road. Nice little spot.

Edited April 29, 2011 by mrsmelly

[Windfola]

You have a point about privacy and winter cold. I might look into some blinds and curtains with thermal lining.

 

Actually I live in Hooky - where was your pub?

[alan_fincher]

Having just cruised the Oxford, I have to say these boats certainly present as one of the better fleets around - most were very smart.

 

Colecraft make a good shell, and personally I like the look of the boats.

 

Ports versus windows is a very personal thing, I would not be swayed by the views of others.

 

We have a windowed "modern" boat, which we like, but if we move to a boat with some history, (which we are looking to), then I'd probably go the port-hole route, but only because it somehow seems more sympathetic to the history.

 

Go with what you feel - there is no right answer for everybody.

 

What would probably influence me against an ex-hire boat is also purely personal preference. The vast majority seem to be either "cruiser" sterned, or possibly "semi trad", and so called "trad" sterned hire boats seem a relative rarity.

 

As I have a strong preference for "trad", most hire boats would not be an option, but if you are happy with the type of sterns on a particular fleet, it seems an option well worth considering.

 

No idea what these Oxford ones would cost. I must say the Black Prince ones always seem pricey to me, even if relatively new, and well appointed. I would expect the fact that it was "well used", even if "well maintained", to make it come in at prices lice than private boats, and that doesn't seem top apply to some I have seen. Getting a full repaint thrown in is a big plus, as it costs a lot to get this done yourself, (or is much harder to do as a DIY job than you might imagine!).

 

Allow a bit extra for contingency if buying ex-hire, I'd say - it is reasonable to assume that some on-board equipment, (boiler or pumps for example), could have had fairly intensive use, and I'd bargain on a few things failing relatively early after you take it over. Can happen with any boat of course, but a lot of 5 year old private boats are actually just as likely to have issues because stuff has stood for years whilst the boat has NOT been used!

[mrsmelly]

You have a point about privacy and winter cold. I might look into some blinds and curtains with thermal lining.

 

Actually I live in Hooky - where was your pub?

 

Sent you a pm.

[sueb]

I rather like the idea of bigger windows, mainly because I like lots of light. Is the objection because of security, or something else?

 

Oh and your endorsement sounds encouraging, MrSmelly.

I usually disagree with Mr Smelly on a lot of things boaty. I like large windows as I like to see outside and it is such a small space to heat they don't create a problem.

Sue ( Liveaboard 20+ years)

[canaldrifter]

Dreamcatcher is an ex Alvechurch hire boat (was Guillimot). Built like a tank, and as an ex welder in RN days, it was the standard of welding that sold her to me..... that and the great ding in her right front side.

 

The main disadvantage of buying an ex-hire boat is that the hull maybe dented a little through poor handling, and the engine and drive may be fairly knackered because of unwise usage. I had to change my engine after a couple of years when the old BMC 1.5 became too hard to start, though it still ran well.

 

I was delighted with the standard of after-sales service that Alvechurch gave me. They replaced a failed alternator free, and gave me free mooring for two weeks in a different marina in the first month after I bought the boat.

 

The main advantage of buying from an established hirer is that the boat will be well maintained, probably having been lifted out and blacked on an annual basis. In my opinion, there would be no need for an independent survey if buying from a reputable hirer. What you see and what they tell you is what you get.

 

If you buy one of David Dare's ex Oxfordshire Hire boats you won't go far wrong. I believe that his latest hulls are self-built, although the older ones are Colecraft.

 

David is probably the most experienced inland boat business operator on the cut. He doesn't sod about when it comes to boats.

 

Tone

Edited April 29, 2011 by canaldrifter

[deletedaccount]

My point is its perfectly possible to buy a 4 year old professionally fitted out decent hulled boat with a barely used engine for 15k less.

[mrsmelly]

Dreamcatcher is an ex Alvechurch hire boat (was Guillimot). Built like a tank, and as an ex welder in RN days, it was the standard of welding that sold her to me..... that and the great ding in her right front side.

 

The main disadvantage of buying an ex-hire boat is that the hull maybe dented a little through poor handling, and the engine and drive may be fairly knackered because of unwise usage. I had to change my engine after a couple of years when the old BMC 1.5 became too hard to start, though it still ran well.

 

I was delighted with the standard of after-sales service that Alvechurch gave me. They replaced a failed alternator free, and gave me free mooring for two weeks in a different marina in the first month after I bought the boat.

 

The main advantage of buying from an established hirer is that the boat will be well maintained, probably having been lifted out and blacked on an annual basis. In my opinion, there would be no need for an independent survey if buying from a reputable hirer. What you see and what they tell you is what you get.

 

If you buy one of David Dare's ex Oxfordshire Hire boats you won't go far wrong. I believe that his latest hulls are self-built, although the older ones are Colecraft.

 

David is probably the most experienced inland boat business operator on the cut. He doesn't sod about when it comes to boats.

 

Tone

 

Hi Tone

 

Dave doesnt ever build Hulls he is far too busy........The hire fleet with but one exeption are all colecraft, xcept the day hire little tiddly 36 foot jobbies,

[canaldrifter]

Hi Tone

 

Dave doesn't ever build Hulls he is far too busy........The hire fleet with but one exeption are all colecraft, xcept the day hire little tiddly 36 foot jobbies,

 

Aah.. I knew he had built some hulls! Didn't he get involved with Wilderness hulls too?

 

Incidentally one of those day boats is named after my boat... Dreamcatcher.

 

Back in 1999 there was only one of them. Now there are dozens.

 

Tone

Edited April 29, 2011 by canaldrifter

[Windfola]

Been looking at a Black Prince hire boat today at Napton. They don't have any 240 volt sockets and presumably no inverter then. The fit out seems all to be laminate. No stove on offer, or repaint, so it doesn't seem to me to be such a good deal. Also the Oxfordshire boats seemed to have a nicer general layout, with oak and generally smarter.

 

Saw 3 boatyards in all today! Rugby boats had a lovely brokerage boat:Milyn. Whilton, also a couple of gems (if at the top of my budget): Carpe diem and Mary Eleanor

 

Also Calcutt, but the few boats they had seemed to be older, and I am terrified of taking on a 'doer upper' which might blow the top off of my budget by the time I have got it how I want.

 

Someone said that 70 footers are often cheaper for liveaboard purchase because the 57s are so much more in demand.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Windfola

[alan_fincher]

Been looking at a Black Prince hire boat today at Napton. They don't have any 240 volt sockets and presumably no inverter then. The fit out seems all to be laminate. No stove on offer, or repaint, so it doesn't seem to me to be such a good deal.

Strange, as their "Boats for Sale" page says....

 

We have repainted in Royal Blue with a cream line.

 

Not trying to push these baots, as they don't seem exceptionally good value as a second-hand buy, but adding a 240 circuit to an existing boat doesn't have to be a huge or expensive job.

 

You are right though, their Q&A's say this.....

 

Can I charge my laptop and mobile?

 

There is a 12v socket on each boat and inverters are also available to hire from the base, allowing you to use a normal plug (max 100 watts).

Quite strange news when big inverters, hair dryers, etc are on lots of other hire boats.....

Edited April 29, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Orca]

 

Someone said that 70 footers are often cheaper for liveaboard purchase because the 57s are so much more in demand.

 

 

That is certainly true in my case - albeit I have and live on a 65ft as opposed to a 70ft ex-hire boat and it cost me a tickle under £45k. It's built like 'The Liberator'.