Gas question

[Chris-B]

A question on gas pipes

 

I do not have a set of bss regs with me …

 

Can you run a gas pipe through a separate engine room ?

 

Does it need to be exposed or in a sleeve or a total no go no matter what

 

 

 

 

This question is regarding the positioning of a new gas locker for a friend

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

[WotEver]

I'm pretty sure the answers are...

 

Yes you can.

 

It must be sleeved, with no junctions, and with the sleeve sealed at both ends.

 

Now I'll go check and see if I'm right.

 

Tony.

 

Okay, I've checked and it appears that I was wrong. My advice above was for a Petrol Engine Space. The guide appears to make no mention of a diesel engine room.

Edited April 26, 2011 by WotEver

[Chris-B]

I'm pretty sure the answers are...

 

Yes you can.

 

It must be sleeved, with no junctions, and with the sleeve sealed at both ends.

 

Now I'll go check and see if I'm right.

 

Tony.

Cheers Tony

It would be appreciated

Chris

 

 

 

[WotEver]

If it helps, the relevant part of the guide is here: http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap7.pdf

 

Tony

[MtB]

A question on gas pipes

 

I do not have a set of bss regs with me …

 

Can you run a gas pipe through a separate engine room ?

 

 

Yes, seeing as you mention the aim is to comply with BSS regs in particular, provided it is not a petrol engine* in the engine room.

 

As a point of general interest it is worth mentioning that one should always establish with which set of regs one is aiming to comply. The answer may possibly, but not necessarily, have been different had compliance with PD-5482-3: 2005 been the intention. Or the GSIUR 1998. A new boat built to comply with any or all of these may still not comply with the requirements of the RCD, IIRC.

 

Now who is going to be first to tell me off for excessive use of abbreviations?

 

;-)

 

Mike

 

*I wonder if a petrol-start Kelvin diesel counts as a petrol engine in this case...

[Chris-B]

Yes, seeing as you mention the aim is to comply with BSS regs in particular, provided it is not a petrol engine* in the engine room.

 

As a point of general interest it is worth mentioning that one should always establish with which set of regs one is aiming to comply. The answer may possibly, but not necessarily, have been different had compliance with PD-5482-3: 2005 been the intention. Or the GSIUR 1998. A new boat built to comply with any or all of these may still not comply with the requirements of the RCD, IIRC.

 

Now who is going to be first to tell me off for excessive use of abbreviations?

 

;-)

 

Mike

 

*I wonder if a petrol-start Kelvin diesel counts as a petrol engine in this case...

 

No it would be diesel---BUT--there would be batteries and associated charging equipment in there as well

The gas line would however be on the opposite side at gunwale level

Chris

 

 

 

[J R]

Yes, seeing as you mention the aim is to comply with BSS regs in particular, provided it is not a petrol engine* in the engine room.

 

As a point of general interest it is worth mentioning that one should always establish with which set of regs one is aiming to comply. The answer may possibly, but not necessarily, have been different had compliance with PD-5482-3: 2005 been the intention. Or the GSIUR 1998. A new boat built to comply with any or all of these may still not comply with the requirements of the RCD, IIRC.

 

Now who is going to be first to tell me off for excessive use of abbreviations?

 

;-)

 

Mike

 

*I wonder if a petrol-start Kelvin diesel counts as a petrol engine in this case...

 

Wrong! The aim is to comply with the Gas Safe regulations. Consult a registered and checked marine LPG Gas Safe Engineer for advice, and check that they are actually registered. Seeing their ID card is one thing, but they may have been 'de-listed' by Gas Safe so check by phone or over tinternet. (We had this experience with a so called reputable boatyard last year and the guy was no longer registered and was still doing tests and charging for them).

[pmms]

I read Baldocks original query as relating to compliance with the bss for private boats. Agas pipe may pass thru a diesel engine space, but may not pass thru an electrical space/battery space unless in a gas tight conduit. Now, how the engine space is fitted out MAY require a conduit, its difficult to be definitive without eyes on the boat.

 

JR

How can someone be doing tests when not registered with BSS?

 

Mike

If a boat is built to BS PD 5482 pt3 how does it fall short of the RCD requirementa?

 

 

Paul M

[alan_fincher]

Wrong! The aim is to comply with the Gas Safe regulations. Consult a registered and checked marine LPG Gas Safe Engineer for advice, and check that they are actually registered. Seeing their ID card is one thing, but they may have been 'de-listed' by Gas Safe so check by phone or over tinternet. (We had this experience with a so called reputable boatyard last year and the guy was no longer registered and was still doing tests and charging for them).

As you are replying to "Mike the Boilerman", I rather suspect you as a non Gas Safe engineer may be trying to educate somebody about gas regulations who actually is!

 

I await Mike's reply with interest, as I suspect his answer is 100% spot on, despite you telling him he is wrong!

[Speedwheel]

Wrong! The aim is to comply with the Gas Safe regulations. Consult a registered and checked marine LPG Gas Safe Engineer for advice, and check that they are actually registered. Seeing their ID card is one thing, but they may have been 'de-listed' by Gas Safe so check by phone or over tinternet. (We had this experience with a so called reputable boatyard last year and the guy was no longer registered and was still doing tests and charging for them).

 

Bear in mind that private boats are exempt from the Gas Safety and Use Regs (the exception being non-private and residential craft).

 

Also bear in mind that there are two sets of BSS regs.

 

JR

How can someone be doing tests when not registered with BSS?

 

I suspect he means that he had a specific gas test done by someone who was no longer Gas Safe registered. However if the boat was a private non-residential craft then again it is exempt from the GI(SU)R so there would have been no requirement for them to be Gas Safe registered - though if they state they are registered and they are not then this is clearly misleading.

 

A BSS inspector is not required to be Gas Safe registered to carry out a gas tightness test on a private non-resi boat upon they are undertaking the test under the 2005 BSS checks.

Under the 2002 BSS regs and GI(SU)R checks for non-private and residential craft, the examiner would have to be Gas Safe registered or the test would have to be done by a Gas Safe engineer with the Boat Safety Examiner present.

 

No it would be diesel---BUT--there would be batteries and associated charging equipment in there as well

The gas line would however be on the opposite side at gunwale level

Chris

 

The problem is defining 'electrical equipment spaces'. The whole boat is an electric equipment space! When I get home I will check the exact wording and applicability.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Speedwheel

[WotEver]

The problem is defining 'electrical equipment spaces'. The whole boat is an electric equipment space! When I get home I will check the exact wording and applicability.

As far as I am aware (and I've read it many times) the guide doesn't actually specify what an "Electrical Equipment Space" is, despite referring to it on several occasions. It's not listed in the Glossary.

 

Tony

[pmms]

Speedwheel

 

Just to be strictly accurate, a non gas safe registered examiner may examine boats subject to the GS(I&U)R's if a bubble tester is fitted or he (she) observes a test carried out by a gas safe registered person.

 

Paul M

[Rob@BSSOffice]

I read Baldocks original query as relating to compliance with the bss for private boats. Agas pipe may pass thru a diesel engine space, but may not pass thru an electrical space/battery space unless in a gas tight conduit. Now, how the engine space is fitted out MAY require a conduit, its difficult to be definitive without eyes on the boat.

 

JR

How can someone be doing tests when not registered with BSS?

 

Mike

If a boat is built to BS PD 5482 pt3 how does it fall short of the RCD requirementa?

 

 

Paul M

 

and most craft built as compliant with the Recreational Craft Directive having gas systems, are often declared as meeting ISO 10239

[MtB]

Wrong!

Really? Are gas-qualified to state this?

 

The aim is to comply with the Gas Safe regulations.

Sorry but you are the one who is wrong, and on two counts in such a short sentence! Firstly there is no such thing as the "Gas Safe regulations". (If you disagree perhaps you would post them here please because I would be MOST interested to read them from a professional point of view.) Secondly the OP stated in his original question his aim was to comply with the BSS, nothing else.

 

 

Consult a registered and checked marine LPG Gas Safe Engineer for advice,

You haven't read my profile or much of what I write on here have you? If you had, you'd realise I am just such a person!

 

 

and check that they are actually registered. Seeing their ID card is one thing, but they may have been 'de-listed' by Gas Safe so check by phone or over tinternet. (We had this experience with a so called reputable boatyard last year and the guy was no longer registered and was still doing tests and charging for them).

Ah I see, you've had a bad experience. Sadly you are not alone. It amazes me how some shockingly incompetent technicians manage to stay qualified. You can check out a specific engineer's qualifications here if you wish: http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/help/check_an_engineer.aspx Enter the Gas Safe Registration Number of the business and you'll see a list of their qualified gas fitters. Select the fitter you are checking to see what categories of work he is qualified to carry out. My Gas Safe Registration Number is 197499 if you want to check ME out ;-)

 

Mike

[koukouvagia]

My Gas Safe Registration Number is 197499 if you want to check ME out ;-)

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

Oops! I've just put your number into the Gas Safe site and it comes back with "Invalid licence card number". You might want to investigate this.

 

Jim

[Chris-B]

Yes the original question was related to compliance for a boat safety certificate point

This would affect the siting of a new gas locker

As the answer is yes a pipe can be run through the engine room a decision has been reached

All pipework however would be installed by a third party who is professionally competent and known to us

This will ensure safety and compliance

Many thanks to all who posted

Chris

[Paul Evans]

Hi Mike,

Oops! I've just put your number into the Gas Safe site and it comes back with "Invalid licence card number". You might want to investigate this.

 

Jim

 

But if you put it into "Check a Gas Business" you get a valid response!

[MtB]

Hi Mike,

Oops! I've just put your number into the Gas Safe site and it comes back with "Invalid licence card number". You might want to investigate this.

 

Jim

 

Hi Jim,

 

That's odd. I checked before posting and it worked for me. It still works for me now when I re-test.

 

Are you selecting the "Check a Gas Business" option? 197499 is my business registration number not my personal ID card number. My business has only one gas operative (moi) listed so my business ID is fine for checking.

 

Some businesses have multiple gas operatives, sometimes running into hundreds so the individual ID card number can be searched for too. Certain customers might find it intimidating to ask a gas operative for sight of their ID card and then write down the ID number from it in order to check them out personally, hence my suggestion to start by searching for the Business number and selecting the operative from the list returned.

 

The individual ID card has the categories along with expiry date listed on the back too, so asking for sight of the ID card will actually give the customer all the info they need. Even so, once a suspected non-qualified gas operative is present on site it might be a bit late to avoid a difficult moment if you need to say 'hang on a sec...'

 

Mike

 

(Edited to correct a nonsensical sentence and add the last paragraph.)

Edited April 29, 2011 by Mike the Boilerman

[Speedwheel]

Speedwheel

 

Just to be strictly accurate, a non gas safe registered examiner may examine boats subject to the GS(I&U)R's if a bubble tester is fitted or he (she) observes a test carried out by a gas safe registered person.

 

Paul M

 

Yes provided they are trained to the 2002 BSS regs and not just the 2005. It is that they must not break into the gas line in anyway unless they are gas safe - hence a bubble tester is fine.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Speedwheel

[the grinch]

Hi Mike,

Oops! I've just put your number into the Gas Safe site and it comes back with "Invalid licence card number". You might want to investigate this.

 

Jim

 

that is why, as you have searched the company number in the operative number check the 2 are different I:E 187229 is our company number but as we have 2 operatives we have individual licence numbers 2724485 & 6 mine being the first number

as you will see if you check i am lpg boats qualified but my business partner isn't

[koukouvagia]

 

That's odd. I checked before posting and it worked for me. It still works for me now when I re-test.

 

Are you selecting the "Check a Gas Business" option? 197499 is my business registration number not my personal ID card number. My business has only one gas operative (moi) listed so my business ID is fine for checking.

 

 

Hi Mike,

Yes, my mistake. I hadn't realised that there is a distinction between and operative and a business licence.

 

Jim