No more Folly!

[carlt]

My word, where have you been hiding all of those years?

 

They would sell their granny for a dime.

 

My friendly Asian neighbour resorted to sourcing alcohol 'out of bond', in order to compete with me. Then, when that failed, he moved on to drug dealing, regardless of the age of his customers. Following that enterprise, he graduated to people trafficking, should I continue?

 

Prior to regarding me as his enemy (in my own country, not his) we used to socialise together. During that period, he dropped his guard and boasted about the many illegal moves that he and his family had made to defraud innocent people of their hard earned cash.

 

I helped him extend his shop, my wife sat with his, all night during her traumatic labour period and our reward?, betrayal and a vein attempt to displace me from my business.

 

Please don't ask me to trust these people.

 

Completely off topic I know. I did my best to re-align this thread to its origins, but sadly to no avail .

 

Mustaffa Rest.

Thank goodness all English people are fine upstanding citizens, eh?

 

Because you have encountered a dishonest Asian you tar them all with the same brush.

 

Presumably, if the "drug fuelled thugs" were English, you will have the same opinion of all your fellow countrymen, otherwise it is just nasty racism.

 

Inconsistency destroys your argument. Your prejudices have let you down.

[Little Gold Nugget]

Thank goodness all English people are fine upstanding citizens, eh?

 

Because you have encountered a dishonest Asian you tar them all with the same brush.

 

Presumably, if the "drug fuelled thugs" were English, you will have the same opinion of all your fellow countrymen, otherwise it is just nasty racism.

 

Inconsistency destroys your argument. Your prejudices have let you down.

 

 

Goodness me! Have you just got in touch with your feminine side again Carl. Is it not a woman's prerogative to always have the last word?

 

In the course of my other business, I have encountered many English and many Asian customers. Whilst not being completely biased towards my own countrymen, of whom I have also dealt with some unscrupulous scrotes. I can without doubt, recount a vast percentage of Asian clients who thought they could con me with their typical culture of underhand tactics.

 

Sad though it is, that during the recent monsoon floods in Pakistan, whereby thousands of innocent people were killed or displaced from their homes and livelihoods, there was a universal reluctance to donate financial aid to help the genuine

needs of the people. Why do you think that was? Simply because the country is rife with corruption and the overall concern was, that donated funds would not reach the deserving victims of the freak weather.

 

If you have never encountered this cultural trait in your own commercial enterprise, then you have either been extremely fortunate, or, you have only ever traded within your own culture. Which is it?

 

There appears to be a trend amongst a certain class of English people, whereby, if any one dares to mention an incident relating to a non Anglo Saxon, they are branded as racist. Indeed, if you were ever in a room mixed with both Indian and Pakistani people, you would then realise what racism is all about!

 

Now, I'm off to inject myself with a bottle of Theakston's Old Peculiar. Just to remind me of some of the comments posted on this forum.

[Doorman]

My God, I've just noticed that I've been signed in under my wife's signature by mistake! I've had it now.

 

See what you made me do Carl

 

I'm off before the bruising starts to swell.

[carlt]

 

 

There appears to be a trend amongst a certain class of English people, whereby, if any one dares to mention an incident relating to a non Anglo Saxon, they are branded as racist. Indeed, if you were ever in a room mixed with both Indian and Pakistani people, you would then realise what racism is all about!

 

You don't just "mention an incident relating to a non Anglo Saxon" you then go on to declare that you wouldn't trust any Asian.

 

It becomes racist when you say that, then not tar all English people with the same brush, when you encounter a dishonest member of your own race. If you'd said "I've been ripped off by people of all colours and creed so I wouldn't trust anyone." then you wouldn't be a racist.

 

If you have never encountered this cultural trait in your own commercial enterprise, then you have either been extremely fortunate, or, you have only ever traded within your own culture. Which is it?

 

Having spent many years seconded to the FCO, visited 34 countries in a professional and personal capacity, lived in 4, resided in Lumb Lane, Bradford, Foleshill Road, Coventry, The Senagalese Quarter of Paris and Kabyle, Algeria I think I can confidently say that I have learnt that there is good and bad in all people and racism is universal, bred by ignorance and fear of the unknown yet, fortunately, there are more good folk than bad folk, wherever you go.

Edited October 6, 2010 by carlt

[AlanH]

Reluctantly returns to the arena.

 

My qualifications to have an opinion on this subject are my life experience. No amount of academic qualifications can substitute for real life experience! I have been fortunate, or, unfortunate, depending on your point of view, to have seen the effects of both alcohol and drug addiction first hand.

 

As I stated previously, whilst running my drinks retail outlets, our shops were raided by drug fueled thugs who assaulted and degraded my staff to a level were they required counseling. They never required such remedial treatment after dealing with the occasional drunk.

 

Please get this subject in context and enjoy a little realism.

 

Alcohol, in the wrong hands, can be dangerous, but not as dangerous as someone who's pointing a loaded gun at your face and doesn't even know what planet he's on!

 

By the way, the Plant Manager was also touted as an expert. His expertise lasted no more than 12 months, before he was relegated to gardening leave and finally awarded a gold plated map of the locality, highlighting where the job centre could be found!

Because you found your plant manager incompetent my daughter, who has a masters degree and very responsible job in health education and has just gained promotion, knows less about public health statistics than you do with your degree from the university of life?

Thre is no doubt that heroin is less addictive and less harmful than alcohol and its illegality and therefore its price is the cause of crime committed in order to obtain it.

 

When you were selling alcohol you were dealing in drugs.

How can you criticise others for doing the same?

Heroin is not as dangerous as having a drunk point a gun at you either.

 

I suspect from your racist comments and lack of understanding of a logical argument that you are the Alf Garnett of CWF.

[Nightwatch]

 

 

I suspect from your racist comments and lack of understanding of a logical argument that you are the Alf Garnett of CWF.

I don't think he is the only one with these views on this site. I am of the belief that there are others that feel the same but don't want to get the treatment that he is getting.

 

I have experience of all sorts of incidents where people from all walks of life try to gain more than they should have using underhand tactics, some are more ruthless than others.

 

It certainly would be interesting to see what would happen if drugs were leagalised.

Yes, I am sitting on my fence.

Martyn

[Doorman]

You don't just "mention an incident relating to a non Anglo Saxon" you then go on to declare that you wouldn't trust any Asian.

 

It becomes racist when you say that, then not tar all English people with the same brush, when you encounter a dishonest member of your own race. If you'd said "I've been ripped off by people of all colours and creed so I wouldn't trust anyone." then you wouldn't be a racist.

 

 

 

Having spent many years seconded to the FCO, visited 34 countries in a professional and personal capacity, lived in 4, resided in Lumb Lane, Bradford, Foleshill Road, Coventry, The Senagalese Quarter of Paris and Kabyle, Algeria I think I can confidently say that I have learnt that there is good and bad in all people and racism is universal, bred by ignorance and fear of the unknown yet, fortunately, there are more good folk than bad folk, wherever you go.

 

This is becoming extremely tedious.

 

Let me elaborate. In my experience, albeit nothing like that of your own well travelled journeying, I base my opinion on my dealings with this section of an ever increasing influx of people into Britain.

 

As we live in what is still (only just) a freedom of speech society, I feel that I'm entitled to air my views based on my particular findings. If that offends the racially frail amongst us, then once again, purely in my humble opinion, too bad.

 

As far as 'fear of the unknown' is concerned, you may have missed a valid point made previously. Both my wife and I befriended our neighbours while occupying the flat above one of the shops. Adjacent to us were, a Chinese family, an Indian family and next to them a Pakistani family (Little Britain?). We based our friendship on the adage that you quoted 'there are good folk and bad folk, wherever you go'.

 

The Chinese family were gracious and grateful for our help in providing them with hot food and clean water as their living accommodation was initially inhabitable. They were very amiable people who did not ask much more of us once things had improved. The offer of help was always available to the day that we left.

 

The Indian family were also gracious and thankful for our help.

 

The Pakistani family who had bought a Newsagent store, were given no end of help by both ourselves and the Indian family.

Gradually, the Pakistani, while passing through the Indian's general store, would weigh up what he was selling, then stock the same items but at a lower price. The Indians eventually had to sell up and return to live with their parents in Leicester, having been betrayed by their Pakistani neighbours. Talk about never biting the hand that feeds you!

 

We reluctantly accepted that this was an inherent characteristic amongst these people and continued with our friendship of the remaining Pakistani family. At that time, I was running a video rental shop that offered no competition to the Newsagent. Then, I had the audacity to expand my business and purchase the 20 year old established Off-license business, 6 doors along the block. That's when the war broke out.

 

Now, let me recap.

 

I befriended this person and his wife on the basis of trust and open mindedness, in return, both he and his extended family, waged an all out offensive on me, using tactics akin to the bloody Taliban.

 

Now, tell me that I'm a racist, narrow minded, ignorant person.

 

You may claim that my ordeal was an isolated incident, not so!

 

I still wished to treat these people fairly whenever I meet them, but sorry, my experience tells me to tread with care.

 

Now then, let us full blooded Englishmen draw an overdue line under this digression, and agree to disagree!

[carlt]

This is becoming extremely tedious.

Very true. You seem to base your prejudice against a whole race based on one incident. If you based your opinions on what has happened, such as English addicts robbing your store, as well as foreigners attacking you, then you may well be just as jaded, but far less racist.

 

Now, tell me that I'm a racist, narrow minded, ignorant person.

 

You may claim that my ordeal was an isolated incident, not so!

 

The fact that you are willing to judge a person as bad, because of his race, rather than his actions, makes you a racist.

 

Such judgements are narrow minded and ignorant.

 

 

Now then, let us full blooded Englishmen draw an overdue line under this digression, and agree to disagree!

This is a discussion forum. If you don't want your racist comments discussed, don't make them.

 

I don't think he is the only one with these views on this site. I am of the belief that there are others that feel the same but don't want to get the treatment that he is getting.

It is always interesting to note that so many people, who have racists views, are afraid to air them in public...

 

shame, perhaps?

 

Whilst disagreeing, strongly, with Doorman's views, I respect his right to air them and respect him for having the guts (and brains) to defend them.

 

Back to offal, we'll be talking about pub pies again in no time.

Edited October 6, 2010 by carlt

[twbm]

 

One of the sales techniques that are still prominent on the shop windows, was the use of big and bold posters emblazoned with slogans to entice the customer inside. One of the partners, who was a natural comedian, once scripted this little ditty after a franchisee complained that they offered little, if any, impact;

 

"These Deals Are Hotter Than Satan's Balls!".

 

That seemed to do the trick.

 

I've been pondering a marketing wheeze for Halloween, something about being grabbed by the ghoulies.

[cotswoldsman]

 

Now, tell me that I'm a racist, narrow minded, ignorant person.

 

You may claim that my ordeal was an isolated incident, not so!

 

I still wished to treat these people fairly whenever I meet them, but sorry, my experience tells me to tread with care.

 

Now then, let us full blooded Englishmen draw an overdue line under this digression, and agree to disagree!

 

You are a racist, narrow minded, ignorant person

What is a full blooded Englishman??

[twbm]

Alcohol is a mind altering drug. According to my daughter, who has an MA in health education, it is more harmful and addictive than heroin. Pub landlords etc. are drug dealers. For some strange reason alcohol is not a proscribed drug.

 

The camaraderie and bonhomie surrounding the consumption of alcohol is exhibited by those who feel the need to modify their minds temporarily. Many such people condemn the use of hard drugs but continue to imbibe. Hypocrites.

 

 

Ah, Burnley Blues Festival. That brings back some memories. We used to have a stall there every year selling microphones.

We spent many weekends in a caravan in the Mechanics' car park.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I take it you don't drink or smoke. Out of interest, does your daughter know the proportions of heroin users and alcohol drinkers that are driven to absolute dependency? I'm genuinely interested.

[Morat]

The only reason Heroin addicts commit crime is because you can't go to the pub or off-licence, for a fix.

 

Legalise drugs and you eradicate drug crime (and undercutting the dealers will put an end to their business, too)

 

I do know one person who stole to feed his Special Brew habit, btw, and he called it "liquid smack".

 

Hear Hear,

quite apart from the health benefits to drug addicts from unadulterated supply, the economic gains from slashing the police, customs and prison budgets would be VERY useful right about now.

[Doorman]

You are a racist, narrow minded, ignorant person

What is a full blooded Englishman??

 

John,

 

Have you really read the full story here? I'm fully aware that you've had the benefit of traveling throughout India and in comparison, have a greater awareness of the people. Conversely, I have only ever encountered people from that section of the world in Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Belgium and Indonesia.

 

During those encounters, I have witnessed a common denominator, an indifference to the values that are held in this country.

Whether it be that history has caused this attitude, or, indeed the shear arrogance of colonisation by the British, it's there to be seen.

 

I sincerely apologise for being so candid if that offends certain people, but, one of the values that I mentioned, is freedom of speech. A rich commodity that should never be suppressed.

 

Mike

 

I've been pondering a marketing wheeze for Halloween, something about being grabbed by the ghoulies.

 

That's the spirit!

Edited October 7, 2010 by Doorman

[Doorman]

 

 

I suspect from your racist comments and lack of understanding of a logical argument that you are the Alf Garnett of CWF.

 

I suspect that you've not put your reading glasses on!

 

By the way Bamber, isn't the banking institution awash with graduates? Did they not almost bring this country to its knees with their learned wisdom? Silly old Moo!

[cotswoldsman]

John,

 

Have you really read the full story here? I'm fully aware that you've had the benefit of traveling throughout India and in comparison, have a greater awareness of the people. Conversely, I have only ever encountered people from that section of the world in Britain, France, Spain, Germany, Belgium and Indonesia.

 

During those encounters, I have witnessed a common denominator, an indifference to the values that are held in this country.

Whether it be that history has caused this attitude, or, indeed the shear arrogance of colonization by the British, it's there to be seen.

 

I sincerely apologise for being so candid if that offends certain people, but, one of the values that I mentioned, is freedom of speech. A rich commodity that should never be suppressed.

 

Mike

 

Mike I have to be honest and say I have not read all the thread i have been doing some serious cruising as I have decided the K&A is not for me for the winter so want to get to Oxford canal quickly, never seen so many moored boats on one canal!!

Anyway back yo your post, I was commenting on a few of your posts that I had read. Maybe I should just step out of this debate as I will be cruising for the next few weeks.

Just feel that I should comment on your statement concerning values that are held in this country......I am not sure what they are!! my experience is that most people that come to live here are law abiding if you look at the statistics for prison population, 3.9% are of Asian decent compared to 92.3% White people. The percentage of people of Asian decent living in the UK is 5.3% compared to 84.7% White these figures would indicate that as a percentage the people who come to the UK seem to be far more law abiding.

[Doorman]

Mike I have to be honest and say I have not read all the thread i have been doing some serious cruising as I have decided the K&A is not for me for the winter so want to get to Oxford canal quickly, never seen so many moored boats on one canal!!

Anyway back yo your post, I was commenting on a few of your posts that I had read. Maybe I should just step out of this debate as I will be cruising for the next few weeks.

Just feel that I should comment on your statement concerning values that are held in this country......I am not sure what they are!! my experience is that most people that come to live here are law abiding if you look at the statistics for prison population, 3.9% are of Asian decent compared to 92.3% White people. The percentage of people of Asian decent living in the UK is 5.3% compared to 84.7% White these figures would indicate that as a percentage the people who come to the UK seem to be far more law abiding.

 

Maybe I've just been unfortunate to have had to endure that small percentage of criminal immigrants, who appeared to converge en masse in my locality.

 

My tale of living amongst the small diversity of 'New Englishmen', was simply to illustrate one of many experiences that have come my way, regarding different values, held by different races. I am not so blind as to ignore the fact that many of these people, are incredibly talented and possess a work ethic to be admired.

 

Ironically, I still have friends of different nationality, who share my views about some of their own countrymen.

 

Perhaps you could enlighten me from your travels around the world, as to your opinion of the different approaches to life, compared to us here on Treasure Island.

 

Back to boating. I remember you and your friend popping into St. Mary's marina for some coal before winter set in and wrongfully believed that you both constrained yourselves to the confines of the Rufford Branch of the L&L. Indeed, I recall talking to your mate at Lock 7 while you were away on your travels. I now watch with interest, to see where you've ventured.

 

We too have moved on, albeit only as far as Audlem in Cheshire. You may have had the chance to have read one of my posts regarding the infamous owner of 'The Dark Side' and his extraordinary behaviour while supposing to be selling our other boat. I won't go into details here as it's been well chronicled already. Needless to say, that was another classic example of giving someone the benefit of the doubt and then being betrayed (a bloody Englishman too!)

 

I don't know what your thoughts are on this subject, but we feel that the further south you travel, the better the services are. A couple of our friends cruised down to Aqueduct Marina on the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie to meet us and were pleasantly surprised at the quality of the facilities here. Is this consistent with what you've encountered?

 

Mike

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

I don't know what your thoughts are on this subject, but we feel that the further south you travel, the better the services are. A couple of our friends cruised down to Aqueduct Marina on the Middlewich branch of the Shroppie to meet us and were pleasantly surprised at the quality of the facilities here. Is this consistent with what you've encountered?

 

Mike

 

facilities become maybe better and more plentiful but certainly seem to be a lot more expensive!!

 

Wow this topic is going all over the place!!!

[Gibbo]

if you look at the statistics for prison population, 3.9% are of Asian decent compared to 92.3% White people. The percentage of people of Asian decent living in the UK is 5.3% compared to 84.7% White these figures would indicate that as a percentage the people who come to the UK seem to be far more law abiding.

 

Well, the prison admission figures for 2009 give us the following:-

 

I've simplified this data to make it easier to read.

 

Let's get to a simple figure for the number of prison sentences dished out in the UK as a percentage of the population for certain races.

 

So:-

 

If race A represented 75% of the general population, and also represented 75% of the prison population then we would end up with the figure of 1.00

 

If race B represented 10% of the general population, and also represented 12% of the prison population then we would end up with the figure of 1.20

 

If race C represented 90% of the general population, and also represented 80% of the prison population then we would end up with a figure of 0.88

 

Thus, from the above, it is easy to see that race A would have an average representation of the prison population.

 

Race B is more likely to go to prison (presumeably because they commit more crime) than their representation of the general population would dictate.

 

Race C is less likely to go to prison (presumeably because they commit less crime) than their representation of the general population would dictate.

 

From real statistics we get the following for certain races:-

 

White 0.87

Mixed 2.23

Black 4.82

Asian 1.34

Chinese or other 1.33

 

I think the figures speak for themselves.

 

The numbers cannot be argued with so no doubt some will argue that this result is because the justice system is racist too.

 

Data extracted from........

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/stats-race-criminal-justice-system-07-08-revised.pdf

 

I'm not racist. But I am a realist.

 

<flak jacket on>

[Doorman]

facilities become maybe better and more plentiful but certainly seem to be a lot more expensive!!

 

Wow this topic is going all over the place!!!

 

More expensive yes and certainly more picturesque.

 

The topic has, I'm afraid, gone crazy and I'm as guilty for that as anyone. I tried to get it back on track, but as ever, Carl loves a good battle. I think it may emanate from his military service days

[AlanH]

You're entitled to your opinion. I take it you don't drink or smoke. Out of interest, does your daughter know the proportions of heroin users and alcohol drinkers that are driven to absolute dependency? I'm genuinely interested.

Ah but I do drink a little ( maybe three or four glasses of wine a week) but I recognise that when I drink I am taking an addictive and harmful drug. I don't know about the latter - I'll ask her. I suppose it depends on how you define dependency. There are those who drink every day, lunchtime and evening, whether at home or in the pub who would claim not to be dependent.

Edited October 7, 2010 by AlanH

[Doorman]

 

I'm not racist. But I am a realist.

 

<flak jacket on>

 

I hope it's made of Kevlar!

[AlanH]

 

 

The topic has, I'm afraid, gone crazy and I'm as guilty for that as anyone. I tried to get it back on track, but as ever, Carl loves a good battle. I think it may emanate from his military service days

Don't blame Carl. You started the racist thing. All topics wander. That is what makes discussion interesting.

[Steilsteven]

Neil,

 

Not sure my attitide is typical: we don't sell real ale because we can't afford to ditch it once it has got past its best, so rather than risk serving a bad pint, we just don't sell it. I think that makes us the good guys in a backhanded sort of way.

 

As regards 'spoons: if I could get a nine gallon keg of Scruttocks for about £30, and be sure to sell a third of it for £2 a pint whilst it was in fettle, I'd do it, notwithstanding the low GP on £48 return less ullage - it would be worth a go to see if the trade developed. We, however, would pay at least £80 for the same barrel, so even at £3.50 a pint we'd make nothing if you allow for three or four pints being lost when we clean the pipes. I would sell it in bottles, but to make it worth the shelf space we have to charge £3.60 a go, which is just embarrassing.

 

Sorry about the indirect men with beards inference - I like a pint of proper beer myself but the trade has to be there to make it worth stocking.

 

Trevor W.

 

Edited to add: My recommendation for a canlside pub that gets it all about right is the Two Boats at Long Itchington. Very good real ale and huge portions of very good food.

 

Just to bring this thread back on track, unless Hairy Neil has changed his habits considerably, in my experience of drinking and boating with him some years ago, he is the bearded one who nurses one pint for the whole evening and Guiness at that!

Sorry Neil, just couldn't resist it.

 

Keith.

[Hairy-Neil]

Just to bring this thread back on track, unless Hairy Neil has changed his habits considerably, in my experience of drinking and boating with him some years ago, he is the bearded one who nurses one pint for the whole evening and Guiness at that!

Sorry Neil, just couldn't resist it.

 

Keith.

 

Ah, the meal in a glass... You must have led me into bad habits...

 

I used to believe Guinness was the safe option till that pint you bought me in the Tontine Hotel at Stourport.

 

That day got off to a wrong start IIRC. Keith never did find his false teeth after dropping them in the Severn at Worcester.....

[Steilsteven]

Ah, the meal in a glass... You must have led me into bad habits...

 

I used to believe Guinness was the safe option till that pint you bought me in the Tontine Hotel at Stourport.

 

That day got off to a wrong start IIRC. Keith never did find his false teeth after dropping them in the Severn at Worcester.....

 

Guess I'll never live that one down, I have a piece of steel set into them now, so that I can find them with a sea searcher should it happen again

 

Keith.

 

p.s. It must be your round next, I'm sure I bought the last one back in 1996 or thereabouts