Engine Headaches

[NB Lola]

please do us all a favour, finish this and promise to post the ending. I am now considering taking my old engine to my garage to learn from, but tha would defo result in more parts left than re-fitted!.

 

Excellent story, worthy of you being given a VW mark of perserverance! (from one who decided to buy a new engine) guilt? I have none!

[FORTUNATA]

I'm afraid my pace has been a way too slow but the problem is I have another boat that's pretty old and have to do general maintenance. Apart from that I spend quite a bit of time taking care of my dog and then there's the sport and so on. Also sometimes I find enthusiasm waxes and wanes, especially if the weather gets cold. Still, at least the cylinder head is now in far better condition and there have been no major disasters. I believe very shortly I'll be removing the main engine block from the boat to remove the sump and begin a massive clean up operation.

 

please do us all a favour, finish this and promise to post the ending. I am now considering taking my old engine to my garage to learn from, but tha would defo result in more parts left than re-fitted!.

 

Excellent story, worthy of you being given a VW mark of perserverance! (from one who decided to buy a new engine) guilt? I have none!

[Tony Brooks]

I'm afraid my pace has been a way too slow but the problem is I have another boat that's pretty old and have to do general maintenance. Apart from that I spend quite a bit of time taking care of my dog and then there's the sport and so on. Also sometimes I find enthusiasm waxes and wanes, especially if the weather gets cold. Still, at least the cylinder head is now in far better condition and there have been no major disasters. I believe very shortly I'll be removing the main engine block from the boat to remove the sump and begin a massive clean up operation.

 

Don't let anyone pressure you, its up to you how you spend your time and you do not have to feel the need to justify it. You are doing very well, small steps and checking for advice when you are unsure. My advice is to take your time and if anyone else want to follow your example before you have completed the job and any writ-up you may do there is nothing to stop them doing exactly as you are doing. I am sure the advice they need will be forthcoming.

[FORTUNATA]

You could say perhaps I've been pressuring myself the last few days (or maybe psyching myself up to press ahead). However, I fully take your point. I do agree it's better to go slowly and get it right than rush ahead with too much confidence, get an engine running but shore up problems for the future. Such as leaking stem seals or even worse forgetting to put in a spring seat. I also agree this does make an entertaining topic that may help those types of people who've never tried their hands at engine mechanics before but may now feel that they might just give it a go.

I hope to turn this into a blog and have pics on my mobile I could upload. Considering I haven't even touched the Enfield yet I suppose that kind of blog could go on for months possibly.

 

 

Don't let anyone pressure you, its up to you how you spend your time and you do not have to feel the need to justify it. You are doing very well, small steps and checking for advice when you are unsure. My advice is to take your time and if anyone else want to follow your example before you have completed the job and any writ-up you may do there is nothing to stop them doing exactly as you are doing. I am sure the advice they need will be forthcoming.

[NB Lola]

Hi,

Please don't see my post as pressure, never intended it to mean that. What I did mean was when you decide you have finished, let us know. It would be one hell of a cliff hanger if it all went quiet though!

 

Discussion forum posts are sometimes shorter than they should be, forgot to add context!

 

Regards

 

Paul

 

[Thewatchmaker]

Still curious as to which VAG diesel engine it is.......

[WotEver]

Still curious as to which VAG diesel engine it is.......

By the sounds of it it's an early one without hydraulic tappets.

 

If it came from a Golf then presumably it's early 80's.

 

Tony

Edited November 23, 2010 by WotEver

[FORTUNATA]

Don't worry, I didn't take it that way. Basically I've been trying to get myself into gear for the last few weeks as sometimes I tend to get involved in some other bit of work and the engine project slows down a lot. The cold, harsh reality is I have a 1968 boat that's going to need a hell of a lot of work - so much work my mind boggles. New rubbing strakes, new woodwork in the stern area, a massive engine overhaul and possibly a total rebuild of the Enfield S Drive. Add to that a total rewire, gas installation with total fitout and you can see why there is indeed a bit of pressure. The good news is there's alot of material for a blog to keep us all busy for the next 2 or 3 years!!

As for today I decided to heck with DIY and time to take my other boat out on the canal. It was good as there were no other boats to be seen. A bit cold but the engine got a good work out.

 

Hi,

Please don't see my post as pressure, never intended it to mean that. What I did mean was when you decide you have finished, let us know. It would be one hell of a cliff hanger if it all went quiet though!

 

Discussion forum posts are sometimes shorter than they should be, forgot to add context!

 

Regards

 

Paul

 

 

My guess is it will have been installed around 1978. The original engine was probably inboard petrol. Whoever fitted the engine screwed up hugely as to allowing access for maintenance. I can't wait to change the oil filter and see 30 odd years worth of oil deposits. As for design, it's totally straightforward.

What boggles my mind is the fact The Beatles would have put out The White Album during this boat's early cruising history. Brezhnev would have been still in office and Sean Connery playing 007.

No idea what the original petrol engine would have been. The change to diesel may have been made bysomeone who wanted a cheaper source of fuel for long cruises.

 

 

By the sounds of it it's an early one without hydraulic tappets.

 

If it came from a Golf then presumably it's early 80's.

 

Tony

[FORTUNATA]

The thermostat housing has now been decarbonised and degrimed through the use of electric drill and wire brushes. This was a fun job indeed. When I first unbolted the housing I found a major blockage inside as well as a split hose. It was filled with dust and debris. The task was simply to attack the housing and lid with the wire drill gauze, removing loads of carbon and dirt. It worked fine. Now I need a new rubber 0 ring and will have to make a new gasket to go between the lid and main body. All hoses will need to be renewed. I also ordered today the new oil seal for the camshaft which costs 4 pounds.

Next on the agenda may be a cleaning up of the manifolds, especially the exhaust manifold. Maybe I'll use elbow grease and sandpaper.

P.S. This all fits between hard work sawing wood for the fire as my main boat is snowed in.

[RLWP]

The thermostat housing has now been decarbonised and degrimed through the use of electric drill and wire brushes. This was a fun job indeed. When I first unbolted the housing I found a major blockage inside as well as a split hose. It was filled with dust and debris. The task was simply to attack the housing and lid with the wire drill gauze, removing loads of carbon and dirt. It worked fine. Now I need a new rubber 0 ring and will have to make a new gasket to go between the lid and main body. All hoses will need to be renewed. I also ordered today the new oil seal for the camshaft which costs 4 pounds.

Next on the agenda may be a cleaning up of the manifolds, especially the exhaust manifold. Maybe I'll use elbow grease and sandpaper.

P.S. This all fits between hard work sawing wood for the fire as my main boat is snowed in.

 

I'm a bit confused about how you are buying the seals and gaskets for this engine. Are you buying them individually or as a gasket set, because a set will be much cheaper then the individual parts

 

Richard

[WotEver]

The thermostat housing has now been decarbonised and degrimed through the use of electric drill and wire brushes. This was a fun job indeed. When I first unbolted the housing I found a major blockage inside as well as a split hose. It was filled with dust and debris.

I'm now concerned as to where else in the water channels you may have more dirt and debris. Perhaps someone with more engine stripping experience than me can suggest the best way to flush the cooling chambers.

 

Tony

[FORTUNATA]

"I'm now concerned as to where else in the water channels you may have more dirt and debris."

 

In the actual cylinder head all will be fine. Elsewhere there will probably be enough dirt to sink a ship. So, I can't wait to get to the block.

It's now all speeding up a lot due to the weather (you can opnly do engine work in such conditions). Today I fitted the camshaft but decided not to bolt down the camshaft bearing caps after all as I figured the caps could use a good clean up. While I'm at it I could clean the camshaft again as well.

One point of concern was the tappets. Some of these have blots on the side surface due to wear. They ought to be all shiny. They were also odd to fit as you need lots of oil till they slide back into place.

Tomorrow I plan on a real good clean of the caps and then bolt them back on. After tapping the camshaft sprocket back on that will be effectively the end of the first half of the job.

Soon it will be time to haul out the main block and remove the oil sump. I can't wait to see how much sludge lurks within.

Mistakes? I really ought to have checked the head for distortion and I ought to measure tappet clearances as well. The big plus, however, was everything has gone back into place as it was originally.

 

 

I'm now concerned as to where else in the water channels you may have more dirt and debris. Perhaps someone with more engine stripping experience than me can suggest the best way to flush the cooling chambers.

 

Tony

[RLWP]

"I'm now concerned as to where else in the water channels you may have more dirt and debris."

 

In the actual cylinder head all will be fine. Elsewhere there will probably be enough dirt to sink a ship. So, I can't wait to get to the block.

It's now all speeding up a lot due to the weather (you can opnly do engine work in such conditions). Today I fitted the camshaft but decided not to bolt down the camshaft bearing caps after all as I figured the caps could use a good clean up. While I'm at it I could clean the camshaft again as well.

One point of concern was the tappets. Some of these have blots on the side surface due to wear. They ought to be all shiny. They were also odd to fit as you need lots of oil till they slide back into place.

Tomorrow I plan on a real good clean of the caps and then bolt them back on. After tapping the camshaft sprocket back on that will be effectively the end of the first half of the job.

Soon it will be time to haul out the main block and remove the oil sump. I can't wait to see how much sludge lurks within.

Mistakes? I really ought to have checked the head for distortion and I ought to measure tappet clearances as well. The big plus, however, was everything has gone back into place as it was originally.

 

If the tappets have pits and blots on the surface that the cam pushes against, I'm afraid that you'll have to replace them. They'll tear the cam lobes to bits otherwise.

 

Richard

 

These ones are pretty bad, but there shouldn't be anything like this on the face of the tappet at all:

 

Edited December 1, 2010 by RLWP

[FORTUNATA]

The upper surfaces are fine. The blots are on the sides of the buckets. They're not really rough to the touch but some are stained. I gave it some thought. The cam lobes will be hitting the shim tops which are smooth but any pits on the sides of the buckets could make the valve action less efficient. I wouldn't say they were pits as such but, sure, the finish isn't as new. They'll probably be O.K. but I definitely noticed the slight defects in finish.

 

If the tappets have pits and blots on the surface that the cam pushes against, I'm afraid that you'll have to replace them. They'll tear the cam lobes to bits otherwise.

 

Richard

 

These ones are pretty bad, but there shouldn't be anything like this on the face of the tappet at all:

 

 

Those pics are bad wear. Mine aren't pitted like those on the surface. Only the sides on one or two are blemished. I was slightly worried about the fit as it was quite tight. Only a good dose of oil allowed for the tappets to slide back into place. However, once slotted in they seem free to move.

 

The upper surfaces are fine. The blots are on the sides of the buckets. They're not really rough to the touch but some are stained. I gave it some thought. The cam lobes will be hitting the shim tops which are smooth but any pits on the sides of the buckets could make the valve action less efficient. I wouldn't say they were pits as such but, sure, the finish isn't as new. They'll probably be O.K. but I definitely noticed the slight defects in finish.

[RLWP]

The upper surfaces are fine. The blots are on the sides of the buckets. They're not really rough to the touch but some are stained. I gave it some thought. The cam lobes will be hitting the shim tops which are smooth but any pits on the sides of the buckets could make the valve action less efficient. I wouldn't say they were pits as such but, sure, the finish isn't as new. They'll probably be O.K. but I definitely noticed the slight defects in finish.

 

Marks on the side that are not rough to the touch are OK. I'm glad the working face of the tappet is OK

 

Richard

[FORTUNATA]

The shims can be removed with a bit of care and different sizes inserted. Below there are numbers to give the guage.

[FORTUNATA]

The cylinder head work is now completed. There was something weird with the camshaft bearing caps as when I put them back I noticed caps I'd tagged no 2 and 4 had opposite punch marks. Thus the one I'd tagged no 2 had a 4 punched on. I took the manual out and it said all the bearing caps have punch marks that indicate position. Therefore I could only conclude that somehow I'd made a stupid mistake and counted two caps from the non sprocket end of the head or that someone else had had the camshaft off at some point and put the caps on out of order. The second is actually a real possibility since I know the injectors have been tampered with due to an absence of heat shields on all but one injector. Also you can remove a camshaft with the head still on simply by removing the bearing caps.

At any rate, I put the two caps back on not according to my tags but to conform to the industrial punch marks.

Finally I tightened up the bearing caps in sequence and put the camshaft sprocket back on. Then I tried to crank the shaft over manually and found a ton of resistance. It was only after oiling the valves it began to work fine and all the valves popping in and out.

To be honest, at this stage I have no idea how effective my work has been. Will the removal of so much carbon from valves and ports and the head make a real difference? Was the non starting related to some other problem? I won't know till I start in depth work on the engine block and do as many tests there as can be done.

[RLWP]

The cylinder head work is now completed. There was something weird with the camshaft bearing caps as when I put them back I noticed caps I'd tagged no 2 and 4 had opposite punch marks. Thus the one I'd tagged no 2 had a 4 punched on. I took the manual out and it said all the bearing caps have punch marks that indicate position. Therefore I could only conclude that somehow I'd made a stupid mistake and counted two caps from the non sprocket end of the head or that someone else had had the camshaft off at some point and put the caps on out of order. The second is actually a real possibility since I know the injectors have been tampered with due to an absence of heat shields on all but one injector. Also you can remove a camshaft with the head still on simply by removing the bearing caps.

At any rate, I put the two caps back on not according to my tags but to conform to the industrial punch marks.

Finally I tightened up the bearing caps in sequence and put the camshaft sprocket back on. Then I tried to crank the shaft over manually and found a ton of resistance. It was only after oiling the valves it began to work fine and all the valves popping in and out.

To be honest, at this stage I have no idea how effective my work has been. Will the removal of so much carbon from valves and ports and the head make a real difference? Was the non starting related to some other problem? I won't know till I start in depth work on the engine block and do as many tests there as can be done.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, and with thoughts of working on the block in mind, always use lots of oil whenever you are putting things back together. so lots of oil with the pistons, lots of oil in the bores and around the rings, lots of oil on the bearings, caps, shells, oil pumps, seals, everything. As my Father-in-Law used to say, "give it plenty of oil, it may never get any more"

 

I wish I'd remembered to say this earlier

 

Richard

[FORTUNATA]

I oiled the lower bearings and finally the upper ones and for the valves I winded up turning the engine over, turning the shaft and pouring a bit of oil on the valves as they popped out. By the way, I did notice the camshaft isn't pristine and the finish on some of the lobes is no longer shining. There is no pitting but the manual says a lack of sheen isn't good as this eventually leads to deterioration. Still, maybe I can think about changing the shaft if and when the engine ever runs.

So far, I've learned a lot but am keeping expectations open. I might as well get ready to attack the block now and learn a few new things on the way.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, and with thoughts of working on the block in mind, always use lots of oil whenever you are putting things back together. so lots of oil with the pistons, lots of oil in the bores and around the rings, lots of oil on the bearings, caps, shells, oil pumps, seals, everything. As my Father-in-Law used to say, "give it plenty of oil, it may never get any more"

 

I wish I'd remembered to say this earlier

 

Richard

[WotEver]

I did notice the camshaft isn't pristine and the finish on some of the lobes is no longer shining. There is no pitting...

Keep it well smothered with oil and at least you'll prevebnt any rusting.

 

And I echo what Richard said about oiling - smother everything as you replace it. Any that's not supposed to be there will soon burn off when the engine starts (along with satisying amounts of black smoke).

 

Tony

[FORTUNATA]

I'm now ready to start phase two and have thought the options over carefully. Phase two will involve unbolting the engine block mountings, undoing all remote cables, freeing the flywheel drive shaft and hauling the block out of the boat. That may be by manual lifting. Then I plan on removing the sump, servicing the oil pump and removing the con rods and pistons because no compression test was ever carried out. Thus, it will pay to try and find if the pistons are O.K. and especially the rings. Then it will be a massive clean up and decoke operation of the block. After that I may put the engine together outside of the boat so if all efforts to start it fail, I can leave my options open and will have free space to fit a new engine. However, my guess is the engine will run again and will be relocated back in the boat.

Phase two starts very soon. My engine mounting bolts are a bit rusty so I'll try a few days soaking the nuts in oil and may even have to resort to heating the nuts up.

[RLWP]

If you have to lift the engine by brute force, take off as many things as possible first. The flywheel is a good example as it is very heavy, and it may be easier to remove with the engine firmly bolted down.

 

When you build up the bottom end, do it somewhere that is nice and clean, well lit, and at a good working height. There's a lot of weight involved, and lots of small clearances that you could destroy by trapping dirt in them.

 

Otherwise, good luck and enjoy yourself

 

Richard

[Paul Evans]

Otherwise, good luck and enjoy yourself

 

Especially when oiling and heating your nuts.

[FORTUNATA]

It's basically a deadlift - the barbell variant being about the best exercise going that's known. I may have to use blocks and lift in stages. A very tricky part will be freeing up the flywheel shaft from the hole in the stern so there can be a clear lift.

I'm hoping to speed things up a bit as well. With the current weather engine work is one of the few things you can still do.

 

 

 

If you have to lift the engine by brute force, take off as many things as possible first. The flywheel is a good example as it is very heavy, and it may be easier to remove with the engine firmly bolted down.

 

When you build up the bottom end, do it somewhere that is nice and clean, well lit, and at a good working height. There's a lot of weight involved, and lots of small clearances that you could destroy by trapping dirt in them.

 

Otherwise, good luck and enjoy yourself

 

Richard

[FORTUNATA]

I thought I'd let it be known I've decided to hugely turn up the pace on this project and lay off all other activities apart from seeing to the dog. The weather is going to be problematic, of course, but I'll have to work with it as it is. I'm hoping to work over Christmas. There probably won't be anyone around so I'll have to lift the engine block out if I can manage it. As I was made redundant a few months ago and still haven't found a job it seems like a good idea to go the whole hog and get this engine stuff wrapped up. The only way is to do at least 4 hours a day every day and then I should be able to break ground. I may even take the pooch down there and kill two birds with one stone. He can play in the snow with his toys while I crack on.