Fuel

[Mary 1]

Can you use central heating oil in the boat with a Perkins engine. I an now interested in the pros and cons, just if it is suitable derv to use.

I know it is coloured, but I was also wondering if you can use frying oil, my daughter runs her landi disco on need chip oil, that's before its used, at 70p a ltr.

Mary

 

Can you use central heating oil in the boat with a Perkins engine. I an now interested in the pros and cons, just if it is suitable derv to use.

I know it is coloured, but I was also wondering if you can use frying oil, my daughter runs her landi disco on need chip oil, that's before its used, at 70p a ltr.

Mary

[paulcatchpole]

Can you use central heating oil in the boat with a Perkins engine. I an now interested in the pros and cons, just if it is suitable derv to use.

I know it is coloured, but I was also wondering if you can use frying oil, my daughter runs her landi disco on need chip oil, that's before its used, at 70p a ltr.

Mary

 

28sec oil (Heating oil / Kerosene / Burning Paraffin) has less lubricity than diesel, and is quite a lot thinner, hence the number. I wouldn't expect it to the do the injection pumps any favours.

 

As for veg oil, probably, in the summer months. In the winter, think heated fuel lines and filters.

 

At 70p/L (and I'm not commenting on the legality / tax situation) you'd probably be able to find red diesel from a plant hire firm cheaper than that. Probably have to provide your name and address too...

 

PC

[RLWP]

And declare the appropriate tax as well

 

Richard

[Tim]

It's my understanding that if you use supermarket type oil in a road vehicle you are liable to pay tax and should declare this to HMRC.

[Mary 1]

It's my understanding that if you use supermarket type oil in a road vehicle you are liable to pay tax and should declare this to HMRC.

Thank you for all the answers, its just that I don't want to buy my derv at braunston marina for obvious reasons, so was wondering where to get it on way to london

m

[RLWP]

What obvious reasons?

[Tony Brooks]

28sec oil (Heating oil / Kerosene / Burning Paraffin) has less lubricity than diesel, and is quite a lot thinner, hence the number. I wouldn't expect it to the do the injection pumps any favours.

 

As for veg oil, probably, in the summer months. In the winter, think heated fuel lines and filters.

 

At 70p/L (and I'm not commenting on the legality / tax situation) you'd probably be able to find red diesel from a plant hire firm cheaper than that. Probably have to provide your name and address too...

 

PC

 

But some central heating boilers use 3? (is it 32 or 35 second) which is gas oil/red diesel. If so it will run on it but I make no comment about the legality re tax & duty.

[Tim]

The reasons are not obvious to me either!

[nb Innisfree]

But some central heating boilers use 3? (is it 32 or 35 second) which is gas oil/red diesel. If so it will run on it but I make no comment about the legality re tax & duty.

 

35 sec

[bottle]

What obvious reasons?

 

 

The reasons are not obvious to me either!

 

Perhaps because they will only sell at 60/40. good enough reason for me to not buy there.

 

Mary, I believe there is a fuel boat on the stretch from Norton Junction going south

[alan_fincher]

Thank you for all the answers, its just that I don't want to buy my derv at braunston marina for obvious reasons, so was wondering where to get it on way to london

m

I also don't understand what is "obvious", but there are countless outlets on the GU south of Braunston that will sell you "red", and not dictate a split.

 

Look out for fuel boats like Ascot, Bletchley or Indus, all of who do it, or pick one of the cheaper boatyards. If you can get to Uxbridge then Uxbridge Boat Centre are usually one of the cheaper land based ones, and discount slightly more for a big fill (Not open Mondays).

 

Avoid Willowtree marina on the Paddington Arm who will tell you an attractive price that ends up not including either VAT or excise duty, but then charge you one of the highest prices on the canals. I should have reported them to Trading Standards, (they are almost certainly acting illegally by quoting a price on the pump that nobody could legally pay), but for various reasons it never happened.

 

Whilton and Wyvern Shipping are usually through the roof too. There's usually not too bad a deal at Baxter's Boatyard at Yardley Gobion, but you do need to ask carefully at any outlet, as prices, and the way they operate can change dramatically at any time. For example Cow Roast never used to be too bad, but have become unduly expensive this year.

 

Does anybody know levels of pricing at the new Grove marina just south of Leighton Buzzard, please ? Nothing is displayed that is obvious.

 

 

Perhaps because they will only sell at 60/40. good enough reason for me to not buy there.

Personally although we have never declared anything other than 60/40, I will not buy from anybody who dictates these percentages. Whilst I don't necessarily think they are acting illegally, they are clearly not acting in the manner that HMRC propose, and I like to support the position of boaters who can legitimately claim less than 60% propulsion.

[Mary 1]

What obvious reasons?

 

 

Well what do you think!!!

M

[Scotty]

It's my understanding that if you use supermarket type oil in a road vehicle you are liable to pay tax and should declare this to HMRC.

 

I think you can use up to 2500 lts of veg oil tax free.

(This may have changed or might only be relevant for road use)

[Mary 1]

I also don't understand what is "obvious", but there are countless outlets on the GU south of Braunston that will sell you "red", and not dictate a split.

 

Look out for fuel boats like Ascot, Bletchley or Indus, all of who do it, or pick one of the cheaper boatyards. If you can get to Uxbridge then Uxbridge Boat Centre are usually one of the cheaper land based ones, and discount slightly more for a big fill (Not open Mondays).

 

Avoid Willowtree marina on the Paddington Arm who will tell you an attractive price that ends up not including either VAT or excise duty, but then charge you one of the highest prices on the canals. I should have reported them to Trading Standards, (they are almost certainly acting illegally by quoting a price on the pump that nobody could legally pay), but for various reasons it never happened.

 

Whilton and Wyvern Shipping are usually through the roof too. There's usually not too bad a deal at Baxter's Boatyard at Yardley Gobion, but you do need to ask carefully at any outlet, as prices, and the way they operate can change dramatically at any time. For example Cow Roast never used to be too bad, but have become unduly expensive this year.

 

Does anybody know levels of pricing at the new Grove marina just south of Leighton Buzzard, please ? Nothing is displayed that is obvious.

 

 

 

Personally although we have never declared anything other than 60/40, I will not buy from anybody who dictates these percentages. Whilst I don't necessarily think they are acting illegally, they are clearly not acting in the manner that HMRC propose, and I like to support the position of boaters who can legitimately claim less than 60% propulsion.

 

 

There Price, dictator ship, not allowed to bring in a container, even on the banks, I could go on and on, which is why I am moving.

I asked the owner of B marina, on the phone last week if they could get me a new mattress, he just said no, and hung up. How rude is that.

M

[Nickhlx]

There Price, dictator ship, not allowed to bring in a container, even on the banks, I could go on and on, which is why I am moving.

I asked the owner of B marina, on the phone last week if they could get me a new mattress, he just said no, and hung up. How rude is that.

M

 

 

Good on you Mary - Vote with your feet - I support your attitude. Some vendors are just too arrogant for words.... and report them ( anyone) if they're not selling fuel legally... it's your duty ( if you'll pardon the pun )

 

The "thicker" central heating oil is 35 second and the thinner is 28 second, (also loosely known as paraffin and kerosene, possibly inaccurately). You MUST NOT use the 28 second stuff in the engine as it will likely destroy it pretty quickly. The 35 second, is very close to road / red diesel bar the colours/dyes introduced, but is illegal to use in an engine without declaring and paying the duty etc.

 

However, you CAN use the 28 second in a "diesel" heater ( Webasto or Lockgate for example - as I do) with great benefit - its somewhat cleaner than red diesel and usually much cheaper at around 40p / litre. This then allows you to use even Roadside pump diesel at around £1-18p/litre which obviously can be obtained at any roadside outlet if you can get close to one and can carry it to the boat, and without needing to declare duty etc as it's fully duty paid and also somewhat cleaner than red diesel too - It may even be cheaper than some places for red diesel.

 

Nick

[Mary 1]

There Price, dictator ship, not allowed to bring in a container, even on the banks, I could go on and on, which is why I am moving.

I asked the owner of B marina, on the phone last week if they could get me a new mattress, he just said no, and hung up. How rude is that.

M

 

 

Do you know, if I was not passionate about narrow boating, I would of given it all up ages ago, do any of you remember when I bought my boat from The new used boat co, and the aggro I had over the master volt inverter, which did after 6 month get resolved. Then as I had not been to see my boat in her mooring, she had a flood on board, very competently dealt with by the marina in braunston, who nearly sold her, as some one ways making them an offer for her, while the work was being done on her.Anyway I have contacted Greenham lock and wait to hear.

M

[twocvbloke]

I think you can use up to 2500 lts of veg oil tax free.

(This may have changed or might only be relevant for road use)

 

That's relevant to road use, and applies to home-brew Biodiesel too, use 2501L and you ahve to pay tax on the lot, not just the additional 1L, bit of a rip off really, but that's the government for you!!!

 

You can use veg oil in a ratio with regular diesel, I know a fella running a Vauxhall Astra with an Isuzu engine on a 25/75 Diesel/Veg oil mix, and it works perfectly, he changes this to 50/50 come winter to keep it liquid enough for the fuel pump though...

 

You can get some more info on using veg oil or biodiesel in diesel engines here:

 

The Green Living Forum clicky

[Rustykev]

Does anybody know levels of pricing at the new Grove marina just south of Leighton Buzzard, please ? Nothing is displayed that is obvious.

 

We stopped here on the way back from the Grand Ring (Oxford/Thames/GU) and filled up at 70p/l We were allowed to declare. The guy was very helpful and polite - most impressed

[alan_fincher]

We stopped here on the way back from the Grand Ring (Oxford/Thames/GU) and filled up at 70p/l We were allowed to declare. The guy was very helpful and polite - most impressed

Thanks for that.

 

It's been a bit of a captive market hereabouts with canalside peoplwe often able to set high prices.

 

A bit of competition can be no bad thing.

 

Unlike some places it looks like stopping there would be very straightforward, with no shunting in or out, or climbing over boats with engineering work in progress!

[Mary 1]

We stopped here on the way back from the Grand Ring (Oxford/Thames/GU) and filled up at 70p/l We were allowed to declare. The guy was very helpful and polite - most impressed

 

Hi, where is Whelton Fields please. I am based in Dorset, near Sherborne,

M

 

That's relevant to road use, and applies to home-brew Biodiesel too, use 2501L and you ahve to pay tax on the lot, not just the additional 1L, bit of a rip off really, but that's the government for you!!!

 

You can use veg oil in a ratio with regular diesel, I know a fella running a Vauxhall Astra with an Isuzu engine on a 25/75 Diesel/Veg oil mix, and it works perfectly, he changes this to 50/50 come winter to keep it liquid enough for the fuel pump though...

 

You can get some more info on using veg oil or biodiesel in diesel engines here:

 

The Green Living Forum clicky

 

As I said my daughter runs her disco on neat veg oil from Bookers c and c. I am not sure she changes anything come the winter, I will ask her.

M

[alan_fincher]

We stopped here on the way back from the Grand Ring (Oxford/Thames/GU) and filled up at 70p/l We were allowed to declare. The guy was very helpful and polite - most impressed

 

 

Hi, where is Whelton Fields please. I am based in Dorset, near Sherborne,

M

 

Do you mean Weltonfield, possibly.

 

Welton Hythe and Welton Haven are set in open countryside just a short distance from Norton Junction.

 

Though I can't for the life of me see the connection either with Grove Marina, (near Leighton Buzzard, Beds) or Sherborne, Dorset.

[PhilR]

Personally, I think it is foolhardy and penny-pinching to think about using *alternative* fuels in a marine engine which will probably cost £6,000 + to replace.

 

Phil

[twocvbloke]

Personally, I think it is foolhardy and penny-pinching to think about using *alternative* fuels in a marine engine which will probably cost £6,000 + to replace.

 

Phil

 

Penny pinching it may be, but that's how the Diesel engine was developed, using vegetable oils to power the first engines before what became known as Diesel came into use...

 

The only thing that could go wrong is the fuel pump, as some brands don't like the viscosity of the veg oil and hence break, which just involves replacing the pump, not the entire engine. Some say that the injectors can be damaged, but from experiences posted by people using veg oil, biodiesel or other forms of bio fuels, there are very few problems arising, usually just perished seals or hoses when using Biodiesel, on it's own, veg oil is harmless to an engine and therefore safe to use, and it works, even aviation fuel is coming with a percentage of biofuels derived from veg oil...

 

The only difference between a Marine engine and a Vehicle engine is that one is set up for boat use, and the other's set up for road use, the internal combustion remains the same in either situation, the only issue with marine use engines is they have lighter duty than road use so may soot up more, but that happens with diesel or veg oil...

[Nickhlx]

You can get a lot of good info off the biodiesel sites as to which engines ( injector pumps) are more tolerant of different fuels

and their associated viscosities - A very general rule of thumb is the more recent ones are not as tolerant as older ones. My old Volvo direct injection was apparently very strong and tolerant of just about anything - people even put raw deep fry oil into it without ill effect. However a new Ford diesel has little extra strength and safety margin, so don't put anything other than good road diesel into that else the pump will surely break.

 

I guess it all boils down to the old adage that a little knowledge is a bad thing...

 

Nick

 

[twocvbloke]

Yeah, modern engines have been designed not to run on biofuels, which seems like they have shot themselves in the foot given how road fuels are gradually being mixed with more quantities of biofuels, and those engines that can only go up to a certain level of how much bio they can use are really going to be trouble (mostly through ECU complaints and constantly going into limp-home mode because the fuel isn't within it's specs), older engines are no bother, and vauxhalls with Isuzu engines (they have either "Diesel" or "Turbo" stamped into the cover, but the GM versions only have a label, avoid GM engines like the plague!!!) run fine on mixes, maybe even pure veg oil, and not to mention that old diesel Mercs will run non just about any oil, from veg oil to used engine oil...

 

A little knowledge can be a bad thing, but no knowledge can be deadly...