Take Three Brokerages

[Geoffrey Hammond]

Today I continued my long, slow, patient search for a second-hand boat.

 

I visited three brokerages on the Grand Union.

 

At all three I was treated courteously, but there the similarity ended.

 

At the first, when I asked to see two boats, the manager talked me through them and then let me look at them on my own - one at a time. The boats were well presented inside - they had obviously been professionally cleaned. On my return, he was interested in my reactions.

 

At the second, again I saw two boats. Again the boats were well-presented. On this occasion, I was accompanied, but in now way made to feel under any pressure.

 

At the third and largest marina, I was given two sets of keys, told where the boats were and sent to look. Both boats were poorly presented. On my return, no interest was shown once I said that the boats were not for me.

 

I came away thinking that I would never allow my boat to be sold by the third marina; it neither seemed concerned for nor interested in the boats it was selling. I thought also that people selling their boats there were getting a poor deal in comparison with what was happening elsewhere. Yet this third marina seemed to find it hugely easy to find boats to market.

 

What am I missing?

[Guest]

The presentation is down to the owners - some brokers are more .picky' about the boats they take on. I'm pretty sure I know which broker.cast you off with the keys and they seem to me on 3 visits to them way less picky than the likes of ABNB at Crick

[alan_fincher]

I'd be kind of surprised if your number 3 was not Whilton!

 

It seems odd to me that the ones that turn over the most boats often seem to be the ones putting in by far the least effort.

[tillergirl]

I'd be kind of surprised if your number 3 was not Whilton!

 

It seems odd to me that the ones that turn over the most boats often seem to be the ones putting in by far the least effort.

 

 

Beat me to it!

[magnetman]

Beat me to it!

 

I was going to be more subtle by using the description "a marina sandwiched between the M1 and the West Coast Main Line"

[jonk]

Would it be fair to say that the first two have spent more time and effort and will therefore have to sell at a higher price than the third?

Presumably the third broker is either merely offering the services of allowing the seller a space and advertising for selling the boat with a commission on sale, or if they own the boats then they are merely 'selling on' the boats in the condition that they bought them? As long as the buyer is aware of what s(he) is paying for, and the seller knows what is offered, I don't really see that it matters - in fact I might prefer the latter so that I can see exactly what I am getting without it being 'tarted up'.

 

John

[Ray T]

This was a boat for sale at Marina No3 ? a couple of weeks ago.

 

Look at the drain hole in front of the white tunnel band, might not be too clear on this reduced photo.

 

 

There was a plant growing out of the hole!!!

Edited May 30, 2010 by Ray T

[magnetman]

I'm intrigued that marina 'number 3' has some boats listed with the date of the most recent survey.

 

AIUI a survey carried out for Mr A does not cover Mr B who may be intending to buy the boat - Mr B would need to have his own survey carried out to satisfy his own insurance or finance company. I believe there is usually a clause in the survey. This is quite good for surveyors where they get to survey the same boat again and again

 

Or...

 

is there a surveyor somewhere who is doing jobs which specifically apply to the boat and not the client ie they would be valid for anyone who bought the boat?

 

Or is the brokerage simply hoping that a cash buyer will read a good recent survey, trust what is said in it and pay the money?

 

I didn't think they had HIPs for boats, or should that be BIPs...

[Dominic M]

I think you will find that many of the boats they have for sale they have purchased outright either directly or through an arm's length company. They tend not to make this clear, not least because consumer law when selling as a trader obliges them to provide some measure of guarantee.

Today I continued my long, slow, patient search for a second-hand boat.

 

I visited three brokerages on the Grand Union.

 

At all three I was treated courteously, but there the similarity ended.

 

At the first, when I asked to see two boats, the manager talked me through them and then let me look at them on my own - one at a time. The boats were well presented inside - they had obviously been professionally cleaned. On my return, he was interested in my reactions.

 

At the second, again I saw two boats. Again the boats were well-presented. On this occasion, I was accompanied, but in now way made to feel under any pressure.

 

At the third and largest marina, I was given two sets of keys, told where the boats were and sent to look. Both boats were poorly presented. On my return, no interest was shown once I said that the boats were not for me.

 

I came away thinking that I would never allow my boat to be sold by the third marina; it neither seemed concerned for nor interested in the boats it was selling. I thought also that people selling their boats there were getting a poor deal in comparison with what was happening elsewhere. Yet this third marina seemed to find it hugely easy to find boats to market.

 

What am I missing?

[Trev]

We bought our boat from one of the marinas you visited and to say we were frustrated at the way we were treated is an understatement. I won't bore you with the details suffice to say we had clearly visited much better marinas and had much better service elsewhere but that marina had the boat we wanted so we had to grin and bear it. I think you need to be aware of the vastly different service around and hope the boat you choose is at one of the better marinas! Good luck

 

Trev

[Enfield Phil]

I have had dealings with Marina number 3 where I was purchasing a boat and a survey revealed a number of faults, I withdrew from the sale and asked for my deposit back, this was refused, so I sued them through the small claims court and won.

I would not deal with this company ever again.

 

Buyer and seller beware!

 

Regards

 

Phil

[NB Alnwick]

I doubt if we will ever be selling but if we were advising someone who was looking to sell, we would suggest visiting a number of local brokers first by posing as a potential buyer - that way, those that 'go the extra mile' will soon become apparent. And a genuinely conscientious broker will not be unduly offended by such 'research' . . .

 

 

Before we bought 'Alnwick' we visited several brokers and found a world of a difference in their approaches. Some didn't even have time to talk to us and the boats that we saw were not just poorly prepared but positively filthy. Others were more helpful and presented boats that had, quite obviously, been nicely prepared for sale. One boat that we looked at had mouldy food in the (switched off) fridge and a filthy toilet and shower - it was quite stinky . . .

[magpie patrick]

Assuming no3 is Whilton, I bought Ripple from them, and would offer the following (although this was four years ago)

 

Their market penetration is huge, for many people it's the first place they look, because they've heard of it. Sorry to offend any brokers here, but that's a fact. A boat at Whilton gets extra exposure just because it's with Whilton

 

The level of help depends on who you get. When I first emailed interest explaining what I wanted and listing a few boats from their website, I had an email back suggesting that one boat out of my list might not be as suitable as the description sounded and there were also another two boats that on the face of it, fitted my criteria.

 

I wanted to know the boat was "basically working". A member of staff came out with me, started the engine, put her in gear (she was trapped so couldn't move) and walked me through the boat turning all lights on,, tried the gas (it lit) and ran some water from all the taps, about all I could ask. I then discussed with him whether they would accept an offer below the asking price (stated as being 44k reduced from 48k) he stopped me, went back in to the office, and told me they'd had an instruction that morning to drop it to 38k. So I offered that subject to survey

 

I couldn't afford more than 40k, and Whilton seemed to stock far more boats below that figure than anyone else

 

edited to add: unless, like me you wondered around unaccompanied one problem with "prepared for sale" is that it can hide things. I'd be a bit suspicious of a boat that had obviously had a lick of paint just before sale to be honest. I wouldn't buy a boat with a mouldy sandwich in the fridge though, gawd knows what else they've neglected

Edited May 31, 2010 by magpie patrick

[jonk]

edited to add: unless, like me you wondered around unaccompanied one problem with "prepared for sale" is that it can hide things. I'd be a bit suspicious of a boat that had obviously had a lick of paint just before sale to be honest. I wouldn't buy a boat with a mouldy sandwich in the fridge though, gawd knows what else they've neglected

 

Agree

 

John

[Athy]

That's a harsh criticism. Obviously a prudent person, before showing people round his boat for sale, will clean it and touch up any blemishes in the paintwork. You wouldd not offer your car for sale after you had just driven it along a muddy lane in the rain, would you?

[magpie patrick]

That's a harsh criticism. Obviously a prudent person, before showing people round his boat for sale, will clean it and touch up any blemishes in the paintwork. You wouldd not offer your car for sale after you had just driven it along a muddy lane in the rain, would you?

 

Unfortunately the world has changed, but when I used to buy second hand hi-fi and camera equipment it was from the local classifieds, and if I was handed an immculate looking lens, I'd look round the room and then at the stereo and say "oooh, that's a rather nice nakatingi deck you've got there". If it was covered in dust, I'd wonder about how the lens had been kept.

 

I saws Ripple "warts and all" and there were very few warts, In the house we now own, one room had not been refurbished, it game me confidence about the rest of the house, because I could see from that one room that the the rest wasn't hiding anything. I'd expect a boat clean, but I'd be cautious of an obvious spit and polish job

 

BTW, the reason I say "on my own" was that my pocket screwdriver was employed to remove panels and the like, I found one well polished five year old shiney that was WAY overpriced when you looked under the cabin bilges.

[MoominPapa]

I found one well polished five year old shiney that was WAY overpriced when you looked under the cabin bilges.

Out of interest, what could you find in the cabin bilges that would lower the price you'd pay, but not make you walk away?

 

MP.

[Phil Ambrose]

If marina No 3 is Whilton I have to say that we have just bought our new boat from them and I was more than happy with the service. Being allowed to wander around a boat on my own is just what I wanted to do, having decided it might be the right boat, I returned to sales office and was then accompanied round the boat to answer any questions that I had. So in my own opinion they were spot on.

I suppose we all expect different things from any sales/brokerage company and for me it was just right.

 

Phil

[magpie patrick]

Out of interest, what could you find in the cabin bilges that would lower the price you'd pay, but not make you walk away?

 

MP.

 

Fair comment. I walked away (and found someone had bid the asking price when I handed the keys back). Erm, my budget was 40k, the boat was 35 and only five years old BUT the cabin bilges were awash, slopping, not just damp, and ruuuuusteeeeyy with a capital R. Someone will end up with a very expensive bill for a new floor and possibly internal replating. I reckon price should have been £20k perhapos, but because I didn't need to go that low, I walked away.

 

edited to add, it looked "very nice" albeit a bit twee for me

Edited May 31, 2010 by magpie patrick

[bramley]

i bought two boats from whilton and sold 1 through whilton.

 

both sales were ok ish.... apart from when i bought a boat up for a reasonable 29k for 22k, the day the cheque cleared i went to pick it up and they charged me for the weeks mooring while it was clearing!!! i argued but in all fairness not very hard as i just wanted to be on my way.

 

selling a boat is a different story, within 1 week i had a call from them with a "offer" i accepted they said he would pay at the end of the month and took a deposit, at the time i was low on money so banked on it selling, end of the month came and went, called for a update and they never got back to me, on the 8th i rang them and asked what had happened and they said they couldnt get hold of him so put it back for sale, i was that hard for money i asked how much they would pay and they offered 9k of my asking price (32k) i had to accept and they promiced to get me a cheque within a day.

 

day 1 no cheque

day 2 no cheque

day 3 i had to pick the cheque up

day 4 the boat was marked as sold on their website!!!!!!

 

god knows what they made, but looking back at it i wish i was slightly older and wiser (i was 19 at the time) and done somthing about it or not got myself in money problems

 

That said, if ever you wanted to find a boat and look around boats to see if they are for you then Whilton is the place to go, if you can look past some of the poorly presented boats then you could find a corker.

Edited May 31, 2010 by bramley

[nigel carton]

I'm intrigued that marina 'number 3' has some boats listed with the date of the most recent survey.

 

AIUI a survey carried out for Mr A does not cover Mr B who may be intending to buy the boat - Mr B would need to have his own survey carried out to satisfy his own insurance or finance company. I believe there is usually a clause in the survey. This is quite good for surveyors where they get to survey the same boat again and again

 

Or...

 

is there a surveyor somewhere who is doing jobs which specifically apply to the boat and not the client ie they would be valid for anyone who bought the boat?

 

Or is the brokerage simply hoping that a cash buyer will read a good recent survey, trust what is said in it and pay the money?

 

I didn't think they had HIPs for boats, or should that be BIPs...

 

you can have the survey report transfered to you, the surveyor will charge you a small fee for this service.

 

 

Whilton will slip your boat + hull survey for £195, which I think is excellent value.

[Trev]

I have to agree with Bramley. I know the boat that we eventually bought was purchased by someone at Whilton from the owners that had had it up for sale for several months. I also know that the owmers were offered considerably less than the boat was worth but for what ever reason they accepted. So despite what I would describe as poor service we eventually got a bargain. So in answer to the OP there are no hard or fast rules as to which marina. Just go for the boat you want, do as much research as you can and keep your wits about you.

 

Trev

[magnetman]

you can have the survey report transfered to you, the surveyor will charge you a small fee for this service.

 

 

Whilton will slip your boat + hull survey for £195, which I think is excellent value.

 

It is good value.

 

But I would find the idea of someone attempting to sell me a boat offering to arrange the survey a little uncomfortable.

[Wonderwool]

you can have the survey report transfered to you, the surveyor will charge you a small fee for this service.

 

 

 

 

Whilton will slip your boat + hull survey for £195, which I think is excellent value.

except that it is impossible to do full hull survey on that slip. It is impossible to get at the bottom plate.

[Theo]

I was going to be more subtle by using the description "a marina sandwiched between the M1 and the West Coast Main Line"

 

That's where we bought Theodora. We knew what sort of boat we wanted and the fact that no one bothered to sell her or make her presentable pushed the price down and down. It made us very happy to pay £10k less than the original asking price.

 

N