Oily Coolant...

[Bobbybass]

Hi..

Beta 43 3ngine......PRM gearbox.

 

Left my boat over winter....new antifreeze when I left it........40% mix....and well run into engine...checked with hydrometer...shows a strng mix...

I'm used to doing this..and when I look down through the coolant filler....its usually a watery blue colour...

Yesterday..I ran the engine...changed the oil/filters/fuel filters etc....and ran it up to temperature....

Looking down the coolant cap...it now looks oily...with oily bubbles on it....sort of blacky yellow colour...

If you get some on your fingers......it feels waxey....and forms oil/water type bubbles on your fingers....

 

I spoke to my 'regular' engineer........who says it would be unusual to blow the head gasket on a Beta 43.

He seems to think antifreeze can go like this...but I haven't experienced it before...

No sign of water on the dipstick...but its early days....

Don't want to set sail if I'm going to damage my big ends etc...

 

What do you think..?...Thanks..

 

Bob

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

My boat has the same engine but having never had a fault I can't say I know it too well, but oil and water mixing is usualy down to head gasket as per your own guess. I think I'd have the head off before I went too far unless somebody else is more familiar with it and knows another reason.

[RLWP]

This doesn't sound good. I wonder though (grasping at straws) could it be a failed oil cooler for the gearbox? If there's a split seam or something the gearbox oil could mix with the coolant.

 

Richard

 

If you have a gearbox oil cooler of course

[Bobbybass]

This doesn't sound good. I wonder though (grasping at straws) could it be a failed oil cooler for the gearbox? If there's a split seam or something the gearbox oil could mix with the coolant.

 

Richard

 

If you have a gearbox oil cooler of course

 

Well....there are two hoses off the gearbox that go to the 'jacket' around the coolant tank...

[Bobbybass]

I suppose my real question was :

Do other people have slightly oily coolant...especailly after leaving the engine standing for months...as I said...my local engineer says that antifreeze can go waxy....but I have no experience of this....

 

Bob

[Keeping Up]

I suppose my real question was :

Do other people have slightly oily coolant...especailly after leaving the engine standing for months...as I said...my local engineer says that antifreeze can go waxy....but I have no experience of this....

 

Bob

I know I haven't.

[paulcatchpole]

I know I haven't.

 

I've seen it on the back of expansion-tank caps of showroom cars left sitting for a week or two then fired up, on forecourts.

 

Not beyond belief that it happens with a boat sat for the winter.

 

Does it keep producing mayonnaise or do you reckon it'll calm down after a few days of running?

 

PC

[RLWP]

What is the inside of your rocker cover like, have a look at the underside of the filler cap.

 

Richard

[imnogeek]

I suppose my real question was :

Do other people have slightly oily coolant...especailly after leaving the engine standing for months...as I said...my local engineer says that antifreeze can go waxy....but I have no experience of this....

 

I have just had to change the radiator on my car as it was had it. The water/coolant can have an oily look to it as mine did so I think your engineer is correct in principle... I was concerned like you when I saw it but he had a feel of it and confirmed it was coolant but he knows what he is doing and can tell the difference.

 

I would not like you to take this as any sort of conformation that this is the same on your engine just that coolant can become "oily"

[Bobbybass]

Tomorrows plan....

 

The idea of the gearbox cooler has set me thinking...

I have no idea of the layout of the Beta gearbox cooler etc...but there are 2 pipes from the PRM150 box that go into one end of the cast box that has 'Beta' on top. I wondered if....the box had a gap duing the winter months (level is usually 2 inches down) and therefore could have dried out/ corroded through inside ?

 

Does anyone know if it has a matrix inside...or is it just a box with an in and out section...?

 

My idea...tomorrow...is to disconnect the oil pipes from the gearbox and bypass them so it just goes from out...and straight back in again...

I will not be running the boat other than in the marina....

I will then pump as much of the surface oil from the coolant filler...and then refill with fresh...and run it...and see if the oil appears..

Anyone see anything wrong with this..?...Thanks...

 

All advice very welcome....

 

Bob

 

What is the inside of your rocker cover like, have a look at the underside of the filler cap.

 

Richard

 

Thanks for this...but I can't answer as the boat was standing.....I ran it for 20 minutes...and then changed the oil/filers etc....

It was totally clean before I did that....but I'm thinking this is new 'winter' damage.....and I'd have to use it for a while to establish mayonias etc...and by that time...it may be too late...

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

[NB Willawaw]

I haven't seen it on my B43.

 

How many hours has your engine done ?

[sueb]

We had our antifreeze go off in our diesel engined camper. The garage said it was old and flushed it out and replaced it with new and it was fine.

Sue

[tree monkey]

Tomorrows plan....

 

The idea of the gearbox cooler has set me thinking...

I have no idea of the layout of the Beta gearbox cooler etc...but there are 2 pipes from the PRM150 box that go into one end of the cast box that has 'Beta' on top. I wondered if....the box had a gap duing the winter months (level is usually 2 inches down) and therefore could have dried out/ corroded through inside ?

 

 

 

My idea...tomorrow...is to disconnect the oil pipes from the gearbox and bypass them so it just goes from out...and straight back in again...

I will not be running the boat other than in the marina....

I will then pump as much of the surface oil from the coolant filler...and then refill with fresh...and run it...and see if the oil appears..

Anyone see anything wrong with this..?...Thanks...

 

All advice very welcome....

 

Bob

 

no expert on the construction on the oil cooler, but i have had this problem and it turned out to be a knackered "o" ring in the cooler itself alowing gearbox oil to contaminate the cooling fluid.

 

i was also told by by friendly engineer that it is ok for get you home trips to disconect to cooler and loop it back to the gearbox, if you get my drift.

 

Not a very expensive problem to solve to be honest just two "o" rings and labour

 

 

oh and just a thought suspected the problem started after the "o" rings dried out after an extended period ashore on hard standing, over a year, don't know for a fact just a theory

Edited April 13, 2010 by tree monkey

[RLWP]

Until we had the engine rebuilt at Calcutt, Tawny Owl ran as a hire boat without a gearbox oil cooler, so you should be OK with this.

 

Richard

 

We do have an oil cooler now

[LoneWolf]

Tomorrows plan....

 

The idea of the gearbox cooler has set me thinking...

I have no idea of the layout of the Beta gearbox cooler etc...but there are 2 pipes from the PRM150 box that go into one end of the cast box that has 'Beta' on top. I wondered if....the box had a gap duing the winter months (level is usually 2 inches down) and therefore could have dried out/ corroded through inside ?

 

Does anyone know if it has a matrix inside...or is it just a box with an in and out section...?

 

My idea...tomorrow...is to disconnect the oil pipes from the gearbox and bypass them so it just goes from out...and straight back in again...

I will not be running the boat other than in the marina....

I will then pump as much of the surface oil from the coolant filler...and then refill with fresh...and run it...and see if the oil appears..

Anyone see anything wrong with this..?...Thanks...

 

All advice very welcome....

 

Bob

 

 

 

Thanks for this...but I can't answer as the boat was standing.....I ran it for 20 minutes...and then changed the oil/filers etc....

It was totally clean before I did that....but I'm thinking this is new 'winter' damage.....and I'd have to use it for a while to establish mayonias etc...and by that time...it may be too late...

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

 

 

I had this problem. I've got the 3 cylinder beta marine (25? 28?)

 

In my case the oily stuff was 'clean' oil so had to come from the gearbox rather than the engine. so was easier to diagnose.

Where the pipes from the gearbox go in to the cooler there's a cylinder with lots of little pipes inside it (like an old fashioned mincer). This may be called 'the stack'. This was the problem in my case. To remove the stack you have to remove the bolt at both ends

 

First tried changing the seals on the bit where the stack goes in and then tested.

The oil sticks to the surfaces inside the cooler so it's difficult to tell if it's fixed. I ran the engine over a few days and kept an eye on the gear box level.

 

I got someone in to fix it.

[NB Willawaw]

I think if you disconnect the oil cooler from the side of the engine and remove the end caps, you can retract the tube assembly. The O-rings go around the tube assembly at each end and force the coolant water through the tubes.

Perished rings will allow oil and water to mix.

[NB Willawaw]

Just to add, I think the Oil Cooler is made by Thermex in Redditch.

[johnjo]

Would it not be easier to first, flush out the coolant and replace with a fresh mix of water/anti-freeze. If still oily/waxy then look further.

[alan_fincher]

If you think you may have oil in your coolant, wouldn't it be sensible to try and find out if you have coolant in your oil ?

 

(Both engine and gearbox ?)

 

If both have become somehow connected, presumably it could theoretically have passed in either direction ?

[DHutch]

I had this problem....

 

...oil had to come from the gearbox...

Sounds like its happened before then, could be onto it.

 

 

 

If you think you may have oil in your coolant, wouldn't it be sensible to try and find out if you have coolant in your oil ?

Defiantly, clearly if eathers gone mayo'y thats where its come from! But it does take time to form.

[Bobbybass]

If you think you may have oil in your coolant, wouldn't it be sensible to try and find out if you have coolant in your oil ?

 

(Both engine and gearbox ?)

 

If both have become somehow connected, presumably it could theoretically have passed in either direction ?

 

As I have already said...its new oil.....and the engine has only been run for 20 minutes with the new oil....

As yet there are no signs of water in the oil...but I don't want to run the engine for a long period and find out..!

 

I like the gearbox cooler idea...as...by your description of the cooling stack....part of it would have been out of the coolant for the duration of the winter...and so seals could dry out....or the stack rust...

I always have to leave several inches of gap on the coolant for expansion...and this would definatly expose the cooling stack.

will bypass the cooling stack tomorrow and see how it goes...

Thank you all....

[RLWP]

Try draining some gearbox oil out too. It won't hurt to do a change anyway and doesn't take a lot of oil. Have a look and see if you get oil or an emulsion

 

Richard

 

I guess it's possible the gear oil in the cooler is at a higher pressure than the coolant and you only pass oil into water, not the other way around.

[springy]

One other thought - if it is the gearbox oil cooler to blame then when you

disconnect the pipes from the cooler you may find that water leaks from

from the heat exchanger through the fittings that these pipes came from.

 

springy

[Radio-Ga-Ga]

Tomorrows plan....

 

The idea of the gearbox cooler has set me thinking...

I have no idea of the layout of the Beta gearbox cooler etc...but there are 2 pipes from the PRM150 box that go into one end of the cast box that has 'Beta' on top. I wondered if....the box had a gap duing the winter months (level is usually 2 inches down) and therefore could have dried out/ corroded through inside ?

 

Does anyone know if it has a matrix inside...or is it just a box with an in and out section...?

 

My idea...tomorrow...is to disconnect the oil pipes from the gearbox and bypass them so it just goes from out...and straight back in again...

I will not be running the boat other than in the marina....

I will then pump as much of the surface oil from the coolant filler...and then refill with fresh...and run it...and see if the oil appears..

Anyone see anything wrong with this..?...Thanks...

 

All advice very welcome....

 

Bob

 

 

Without flushing first you may get existing oil floating to the top - even after the fault is fixed

I used to work as a motor mechanic, whenever there had been this sort of problem, after repair it was usual to fill up with clean water and automatic washing powder, then after a good run, drain and flush before the final fill, it prevented customers returning with the same symtoms even tho the fault was fixed.

[Bobbybass]

You're all very nice...and thank you for taking the time to 'pool' thoughts and help me.....

 

Bob