cupboards and shelves

[dor]

Well, views on router - edged MDF vary. Personally whenever I see veneered MDF with routed and varnished edges it just jumps out at me and says "cheep". I agree that oak-veneered MDF doesn't look as bad as some other finishes, but it still leaps out at me. However from my experience of selling boats, many people don't notice it and actually think it is solid oak.

[soldthehouse]

I've never used veneered mdf - does the veneer stand up to usage okay if the cut end of the board is left unprotected by a hardwood trim? Will it splinter at all when routered. (I'm used to ply and such like where 'raw' ends are v. prone to splintering. if not covered by trims)

Hello Yes it will break out slightly on the underside where the saw breaks through, but this will depend on how coarse the blade is and how sharp. To remove this small splintering if you require a simple edge, arris the edge with a sander ie just take off the hard corner which softens the edge slightly or if you have a router just a small routed round over or chamfer will give an acceptable edge. To get a smootth finnish the mdf is very fine in texture and will sand very smooth. It can then be polished with most wood finishes to a fine finish. No edges to find their way off down the line.

 

Aahh, OK, it wasn't immediately apparent what your first line was trying to tell us. However, on re-reading in context I can see what you were saying, but originally it seemed to be talking about cost.

Roger

Hello Roger, after I replied it sounded like a put down but sometimes I write without proper punctuation etc and on re reading things can seem different.

 

Well, views on router - edged MDF vary. Personally whenever I see veneered MDF with routed and varnished edges it just jumps out at me and says "cheep". I agree that oak-veneered MDF doesn't look as bad as some other finishes, but it still leaps out at me. However from my experience of selling boats, many people don't notice it and actually think it is solid oak.

What mdf does is it allows amateur fitters to achieve a good looking finish without resorting to glued on or worse nailed on edging which looks even more naff and invariably comes adrift somewhere down the line you cant beat solid timber but for some its prohibitive in price and the ability to work with let alone taking into consideration the movement in service problems associated with solid timber. even thepro's have trouble with movement in service and in a boat where the ambient moisture content is off the scale it can turn a project that initially looks good into something akin to a Walkers crisp.

[Albion]

Hello Roger, after I replied it sounded like a put down but sometimes I write without proper punctuation etc and on re reading things can seem different.

 

No sweat at all. We've got it sorted now and we both agree anyway.

Roger

[soldthehouse]

Hi

 

Oak veneered MDF table - routed centre, radiused and polished edges, been in use 5 years.

 

Alex

 

 

Your a pro, looks like 20% sheen level lovely

[robkg]

No but you are for using trims. The whole point and only advantage of mdf is that edging is not required.............

 

The raw edge of oak faced MDF looks like what it is - MDF.

 

If you want to do the job properly use solid oak shelves, or for economy, oak faced MDF with solid oak edging.

 

Rob

[bag 'o' bones]

The raw edge of oak faced MDF looks like what it is - MDF.

 

If you want to do the job properly use solid oak shelves, or for economy, oak faced MDF with solid oak edging.

 

Rob

 

Whats wrong with Fablon?

 

(waits for the couging and spluttering)

Edited April 2, 2010 by bag 'o' bones

[blackrose]

Thanks. A friend of mine recently took some more interior pictures with a really good camera - I never realised what a difference a good camera made. I'll try and post one soon.

 

Mike

 

 

It's amazing how much bigger his lens made the inside of the boat look. (If I'd realised how good the camera was I'd have moved that electric radiator out of the way )

 

The galley (and me swaying slightly after 6 pints ).

Edited April 2, 2010 by blackrose

[ChrisPy]

Mike - impressive

[soldthehouse]

The raw edge of oak faced MDF looks like what it is - MDF.

 

If you want to do the job properly use solid oak shelves, or for economy, oak faced MDF with solid oak edging.

 

Rob

Properly doesnt come into it, its what the op can achieve best. Edging mdf is a joke, there are far better boards to use if you are going to use edging, but all edging is a compromise and invariably looks very moderate. We are having solid timber throughout but I wouldnt presume to advise everyone to use it and that isnt what this post is about..

[robkg]

Properly doesnt come into it, its what the op can achieve best. Edging mdf is a joke, there are far better boards to use if you are going to use edging, but all edging is a compromise and invariably looks very moderate. We are having solid timber throughout but I wouldnt presume to advise everyone to use it and that isnt what this post is about..

I can't agree. Oak faced MDF edged with solid oak, if done correctly will, if the grain directions match be virtually indistinguishable from a piece of solid oak. (unless the piece in question is unrealistically wide)

I accept that other faced board types would also work and may offer superior stiffness/strength, but edged, faced MDF is a perfectly acceptable and realistic option.

 

Rob

[soldthehouse]

I can't agree. Oak faced MDF edged with solid oak, if done correctly will, if the grain directions match be virtually indistinguishable from a piece of solid oak. (unless the piece in question is unrealistically wide)

I accept that other faced board types would also work and may offer superior stiffness/strength, but edged, faced MDF is a perfectly acceptable and realistic option.

 

Rob

How do you get the match across the end grain!

[WotEver]

How do you get the match across the end grain!

Solid wood table tops are commonly finished with a breadboard end piece. That would be indistinguishable from a veneered top finished in the same way. Apart from giving the piece a 'finished' appearance it also helps to reduce warping (when working with solid).

 

Personally I don't like end grain and nearly always finish my larger projects with lipping whether I'm working in the solid or veneered. Small shelves like radiator shelves and the like can look nice with a simple board showing the end grain, but in my opinion larger pieces don't look so attractive - particularly with the end grain changing where the pieces have been edge jointed.

 

So I don't see how using solid wood edging can possibly be considered 'improper'.

 

Tony

[soldthehouse]

Solid wood table tops are commonly finished with a breadboard end piece. That would be indistinguishable from a veneered top finished in the same way. Apart from giving the piece a 'finished' appearance it also helps to reduce warping (when working with solid).

 

Personally I don't like end grain and nearly always finish my larger projects with lipping whether I'm working in the solid or veneered. Small shelves like radiator shelves and the like can look nice with a simple board showing the end grain, but in my opinion larger pieces don't look so attractive - particularly with the end grain changing where the pieces have been edge jointed.

 

So I don't see how using solid wood edging can possibly be considered 'improper'.

 

Tony

Ive been a furniture maker for twenty odd years so know a thing or two about timber technology. Bread board ends will not disguise the use of edgeing which was the point of my question and invariably exaggerate seasonal movement of the main top because timber doesnt expand in its length but only in its width. Therefore as the seasons change and a top becomes wider or narrower the end batten stays the same and you always end up with a lip at the corners. Another point worth making is that breadboard ends will never stop warping and were originally thought to stop splitting and to compensate for poor glue quality, however the reality is somewhat different.

[romarni123]

Have been to the timber yard and he gave me some off cuts of MDF and some oak faced MDF,have been playing with the router and the edges are very differant to the top,I dont want to put edging on as it will just end up with bits of gunk collecting in it. On the way home we went into a second hand shop and he had 3 medium oak bookcases for 15 quid each they are solid oak and old,so have got them, two to use as bookcases and one to make a telly unit from with a bit of jigging so that should work I hope now all i have to do is learn how to saw in a straight line

[bag 'o' bones]

Have been to the timber yard and he gave me some off cuts of MDF and some oak faced MDF,have been playing with the router and the edges are very differant to the top,I dont want to put edging on as it will just end up with bits of gunk collecting in it. On the way home we went into a second hand shop and he had 3 medium oak bookcases for 15 quid each they are solid oak and old,so have got them, two to use as bookcases and one to make a telly unit from with a bit of jigging so that should work I hope now all i have to do is learn how to saw in a straight line

 

Reclaimed wood is always a smart move. I rescued a bit of oak off the local pubs log pile, its now attached to our boat in the form of threshhold strips!

[robkg]

How do you get the match across the end grain!

Clearly if solid oak edging is used to cover the MDF edge then the grain will run perpendicular. This can look very acceptable as long as the edging is not too thin (5mm is fine).

If the OP is fitting shelves with either bookcase ends or bulkhead ends the the ends are covered anyway.

 

Ive been a furniture maker for twenty odd years so know a thing or two about timber technology. Bread board ends will not disguise the use of edgeing which was the point of my question and invariably exaggerate seasonal movement of the main top because timber doesnt expand in its length but only in its width. Therefore as the seasons change and a top becomes wider or narrower the end batten stays the same and you always end up with a lip at the corners. Another point worth making is that breadboard ends will never stop warping and were originally thought to stop splitting and to compensate for poor glue quality, however the reality is somewhat different.

I shall resist one upmanship on credentials. I am puzzled by your reference to the top expanding and contracting in only one dimension, I thought we were discussing faced MDF which will remain relatively stable in all dimensions. As for the edging, if properly attached it will stay put with the MDF.

[soldthehouse]

Clearly if solid oak edging is used to cover the MDF edge then the grain will run perpendicular. This can look very acceptable as long as the edging is not too thin (5mm is fine).

If the OP is fitting shelves with either bookcase ends or bulkhead ends the the ends are covered anyway.

 

 

I shall resist one upmanship on credentials. I am puzzled by your reference to the top expanding and contracting in only one dimension, I thought we were discussing faced MDF which will remain relatively stable in all dimensions. As for the edging, if properly attached it will stay put with the MDF.

Read it again

[robkg]

Read it again

OK, read it again.

 

Sorry if I am being thick but I think my post still stands.

 

Rob

[soldthehouse]

OK, read it again.

 

Sorry if I am being thick but I think my post still stands.

 

Rob

My reference was to wotevers comments not mdf, I doubt you have any experience you sound a little amateurish , sorry thats just my opinion.

[robkg]

My reference was to wotevers comments not mdf, I doubt you have any experience you sound a little amateurish , sorry thats just my opinion.

What have I written to make you think I am a little amateurish with no experience?

[PhilR]

This is an interesting thread and it is a good representation of how our needs and expectations differ. Personally, I am happy knowing I can sleep soundly in a sound boat without having to worry about end grains, veneers, real wood etc. Even the 1980's tiled work surfaces and naff formica don't interrupt my sleep patterns on my old boat.

 

Viva la difference!

 

But, I must agree a bit of cheap timber can stand out like a sore thumb on an otherwise quality solid timber fit-out.

[blackrose]

Personally, I am happy knowing I can sleep soundly in a sound boat without having to worry about end grains, veneers, real wood etc. Even the 1980's tiled work surfaces and naff formica don't interrupt my sleep patterns on my old boat.

 

Viva la difference!

 

I agree - I'm not really sure that I follow the argument about doing it the "correct way." There's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't worry about what other people think, I just make something that looks nice and satisfies myself.

 

When I was building my cupboards I had two so-called professionals tell me I was doing it all wrong. Yet I'm very happy with the final result and I don't think that a professional cabinet maker could have done it any better with the same materials. In short, I'm glad I didn't listen to them!

 

Edited April 4, 2010 by blackrose

[romarni123]

I agree - I'm not really sure that I follow the argument about doing it the "correct way." There's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't worry about what other people think, I just make something that looks nice and satisfies myself.

 

When I was building my cupboards I had two so-called professionals tell me I was doing it all wrong. Yet I'm very happy with the final result and I don't think that a professional cabinet maker could have done it any better with the same materials. In short, I'm glad I didn't listen to them!

 

And very nice they are to

[steelaway]

And very nice they are to

 

 

Just goes to show .... Not to my taste at all

To much wood - to much varnish - to much fancy

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

Alex

Edited April 4, 2010 by steelaway

[blackrose]

Just goes to show .... Not to my taste at all

To much wood - to much varnish - to much fancy

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

Alex

 

No varnish at all - they're oiled and waxed.