Narrowboats and wide boats rediscovered at Harefield - the facts

[Laurence Hogg]

Yes, they were between the cut and the marina a bit further along from the entrance. That was taken at least 25yrs ago, so I don't know if anything now remains above water.

 

Derek

 

Thanks Derek, both appear to be remains of wide boats.

 

After a conversation with a learned member of the forum he has revealed some more information regarding the names of craft in the pit. I have altered the map to accomodate these changes.

An extra wideboat has been added (35) and the names changed refering to some boats. Also some bows were placed facing the wrong direction.

Wide boats Alberta, Rose of Tyburn and Mavis are now definate.

 

[pete harrison]

My records jump from 10429, dated 09/02/1880 (a Monday), to 10438, dated 13/02/1880 (a Friday).

 

My records are the same as yours as one set of B.C.N. gauge registers is much the same as another, and most registers have the same tables missing. I assume you have access to Mr B's B.C.N. gauge registers - or do you have a set of your own ?

[Laurence Hogg]

The latest refined map / plan of the site. Boat marked "X" is present in the water where shown and may be one of the group 22-25 which has been winched round at some time. The red lines indicate remains of boats, ie knees planking etc.

[roger]

An interesting thought - surely some of the Basingstoke boats (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1184) must have come from the same batch as those abandoned at Harefield?? Perhaps those in the best condition went on to the Basingstoke??

 

If that is indeed the case, the only sad note is that this week one of these boats was scrapped after being abandoned by its owner.

 

Roger

[Laurence Hogg]

An interesting thought - surely some of the Basingstoke boats (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=1184) must have come from the same batch as those abandoned at Harefield?? Perhaps those in the best condition went on to the Basingstoke??

 

If that is indeed the case, the only sad note is that this week one of these boats was scrapped after being abandoned by its owner.

 

Roger

 

the boats shown in this clip are BCN wooden "Joey" day boats and came from Yates Bros at Norton Canes. There were a few long distance boats on the Basingstoke which may have come from BW (BTC) disposal.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[carlt]

If that is indeed the case, the only sad note is that this week one of these boats was scrapped after being abandoned by its owner.

Which one was scrapped?

[Derek R.]

Some of the Basingstoke boats taken in the early 1980's.

 

I believe the ADELINA was the subject of a childrens story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Evocative pictures Derek, I believe Adelina was originally a Somerset Coal Canal boat and was one of the oldest boats afloat. It was indeed featured in a childrens story book. There were some ex FMC and GU boat there. I am not sure what became of these.

 

[roger]

Which one was scrapped?

 

Dont know the name but it had a riveted iron hull with elm bottom. Having just read this thread on these Harefield boats, I just thought it odd that this one had been cut up and scrapped this week. It seems to me all these boats made their way to the Basingstoke/Harefield about the early sixties. (edited to remove irrelevant info)

Edited March 26, 2010 by roger

[BuckbyLocks]

The 'Adelina' on my bookshelves is not really a Childrens Book, but a Canal Biography written by David Horsfall and is an account of his purchase and life on board the Adelina before he went to work in South Africa. He was for a time Chairman of the London Branch of the IWA. Adelina was towed from Hartshill to Harefield by Willow Wren for David Horsfall, just after the boats featured in this thread were dumped there. Later Jack Monk then towed A. to Bow and the Herrtford Union where the Horsfalls lived for a while before Arcturus towed her to the Basingstoke. DH sold Adelina in 1964.

[magpie patrick]

Evocative pictures Derek, I believe Adelina was originally a Somerset Coal Canal boat and was one of the oldest boats afloat. It was indeed featured in a childrens story book. There were some ex FMC and GU boat there. I am not sure what became of these.

 

 

 

Really? tell me more!

[Chris Pink]

Really? tell me more!

 

Sorry to disappoint but Davd Horsfall believes Adelina to be a Severn grain carrying boat from the early 1900s with 'worcester' bows - whatever they may be.

 

Indeed not a children's book and the picture above from Derek R is definitely Adelina from the book.

 

the boat on the left in Mr Hogg's picture looks like a Walker's boat to me.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Chris Pink

[Tim Lewis]

The 'Adelina' on my bookshelves is not really a Childrens Book, but a Canal Biography written by David Horsfall and is an account of his purchase and life on board the Adelina before he went to work in South Africa. He was for a time Chairman of the London Branch of the IWA. Adelina was towed from Hartshill to Harefield by Willow Wren for David Horsfall, just after the boats featured in this thread were dumped there. Later Jack Monk then towed A. to Bow and the Herrtford Union where the Horsfalls lived for a while before Arcturus towed her to the Basingstoke. DH sold Adelina in 1964.

 

Adeleina was subsequently broken up on its mooring on the Basingstoke just prior to the canal's reopening - with the state it was in it would not have suvived the passing boats.

 

Tim

[Tim Lewis]

The 'Adelina' on my bookshelves is not really a Childrens Book, but a Canal Biography written by David Horsfall and is an account of his purchase and life on board the Adelina before he went to work in South Africa. He was for a time Chairman of the London Branch of the IWA. Adelina was towed from Hartshill to Harefield by Willow Wren for David Horsfall, just after the boats featured in this thread were dumped there. Later Jack Monk then towed A. to Bow and the Herrtford Union where the Horsfalls lived for a while before Arcturus towed her to the Basingstoke. DH sold Adelina in 1964.

 

The book can be read on line at:

 

http://www.basingstoke-canal.org.uk/archiv.../bkltarc9-1.htm

 

Tim

Edited March 26, 2010 by Tim Lewis

[magpie patrick]

Sorry to disappoint but Davd Horsfall believes Adelina to be a Severn grain carrying boat from the early 1900s with 'worcester' bows - whatever they may be.

 

Indeed not a children's book and the picture above from Derek R is definitely Adelina from the book.

 

the boat on the left in Mr Hogg's picture looks like a Walker's boat to me.

 

Thanks Chris, yes a disappointment but not a surprise

[Chris Pink]

Thanks Chris, yes a disappointment but not a surprise

 

are there any extant SCC boats? or documentation of what they would have been like?

 

Were they not said to be container boats for transhipment on the inclined planes?

[magpie patrick]

are there any extant SCC boats? or documentation of what they would have been like?

 

Were they not said to be container boats for transhipment on the inclined planes?

 

Could start a whole new thread here Chris

 

answer one, we don't know, but as the canal closed in 1898 it seems unlikely although there was at least one iron maintenance boat on the canal.

 

we believe containers were used when the canal had two branches both with inclined planes, Benjamin Outram is recorded as having recommended the system which was also in use on the peak forest canal at the time, but the Paulton branch incline was replaced by locks in 1805 and the Radstock Branch was converted to tramway in 1812. If containers were used, we don't know whether they continued to be used once the double transhipment ceased.

 

the boats were actually slightly smaller than midlands and GU narrow boats because they were agreed with the K and A as being a half width K and A boat, so they were six foot ten by 69 feet

 

Any information gratefully received

[Derek R.]

Tim, thank you for posting that link. I have read chapter one, and see that the enthusiasm for the boat defies all logic surrounding its condition - even in 1958 - or perhaps because it was 1958. The almost childlike dismissal of serious problems smacks of another time, when costs and objectivity of purpose were not to the fore, and sheer desire for something different was all. The description by Hugh McKnight in the forward creates an almost magical world within, which becomes terrifyingly nightmarish when the owner begins his first voyage. I'm looking forward to reading more!

 

Adelina - the legend?

 

Derek

[Chris Pink]

The almost childlike dismissal of serious problems smacks of another time, when costs and objectivity of purpose were not to the fore, and sheer desire for something different was all.

 

dunno, there's plenty of that still around, guilty of it myself at times.

[Derek R.]

dunno, there's plenty of that still around, guilty of it myself at times.

 

Good - keep that spirit!

We took Yarmouth on a round the system trip, over the L&L and up the Trent with just a few hundred quid and barely any maps. Best journey we ever made (so far).

 

Derek

[carlt]

(first)...We took Yarmouth

Then we take Berlin....

[Laurence Hogg]

are there any extant SCC boats? or documentation of what they would have been like?

 

Were they not said to be container boats for transhipment on the inclined planes?

 

Hi Chris,

The boat in my B/W picture is a Walkers butty, the other I strongly believe is a Uxbridge FMC butty.

 

Adelina was researched a while back and is strongly believed to have been a Somerset Canal boat. It certainly is not a "Severner" and the bows are not "Worcester bows". That term relates to the boats that were constructed to take on the heavy flow of the Severn, they had extra strong guards on the fore ends, a little thicker than most boats and these had a thick wooden guard beneath them. The other feature was the "Wooden heads" situated either side of the fore deck which were used when these craft were towed in trains. These "Heads" had a hole through them so a long tow line could be run down the train of boats, apparently this was for stability. Survivors are few, the only full length ones easily seen now lie wrecked at Keays dock site Walsall, one still has half a bow intact with a wooden head. There are some at Lydney in bits, some lie just near Coombe Hill on the Severn as bank protection. a few were converted, "Linguist" being one, others may exist in places like the Timber ponds on the G&S.

 

Some S&CCC motors exist. wooden ones like "Don" and "Dane" ended up with Thos Clayton's, most if not all of the steel welded Charles Hill built motors are still around. one is "preserved" at Gloucester in original livery.

 

Adelina in 1980 - the hull is very poor but stern still original

 

 

Edited March 26, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Dawnie]

Then we take Berlin....

 

What happened to Manhattan?

[carlt]

What happened to Manhattan?

Cohen rewrote it, for the American market, but the original recording, in which he sang "Yarmouth" is a very scarce collector's item.

[Laurence Hogg]

This is Tailby's "Progress". It has the "Worcester bow" with wooden heads.

 

 

Oh before anyone says "theres only one" I dont know why but the other doesnt seem to show up, however other photos show two, but not the bow profile so well.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Laurence Hogg