Narrowboats and wide boats rediscovered at Harefield - the facts

[Laurence Hogg]

That's another possibility. That looks like the remains of a range - given its size, or what's left of it - rusting away on the floor, does kind of support the wide boat idea. Motorised wide horse boat?

SWAN was built Uxbridge, and diseaseled in 1913 - not a eight footer in width though, fate unknown to me, but I fancy unlikley. Sultan seems to have had a 'T' stud in that location - but narrow boat.

 

Derek

 

Hi Derek,

Calder was a "Black Warwick" motor. Warwickshire Canal Carrying co.

From records Swan was eventually dismantled, "Pioneer" the other FMC wide boat was sold to Harefield Lime Co, Sultan (FMC one) was an iron Saltley boat, is there another "Sultan"? That is indeed a range lying in the boat, probably a 24" one. I agree too that the depth to the Huxter seems shallow, also the swim seems odd, the bulge in the counter is also odd, is this to protect from a line of boats being towed, ie its a tug?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[antarmike]

If the engine room Bulkhead is ahead of the visible engine bearers, there is another bulkhead several feet forther forward from that. This looks like some kind of small cabin , with a raised floor, ahead of the engine room, which seems a very odd arrangement.

Edited March 17, 2010 by antarmike

[Timleech]

If the engine room Bulkhead is ahead of the visible engine bearers, there is another bulkhead several feet forther forward from that. This looks like some kind of small cabin , with a raised floor, ahead of the engine room, which seems a very odd arrangement.

 

It rather looks as though the whole thing had been cut off ahead of that second bulkhead, maybe that was added just as a means of floating it to its grave? (not strong enough for much else by the look of it)

I very much favour the motorised horse boat theory.

I think your 'raised floor' may just be the engine bearers carried foreward at keelson height.

 

Tim

Edited March 17, 2010 by Timleech

[Laurence Hogg]

re the photo of the half boat remains, anyone who is expert on engines? What engine requires three bolts in the bed as shown in the picture?

[Timleech]

re the photo of the half boat remains, anyone who is expert on engines? What engine requires three bolts in the bed as shown in the picture?

 

There looks to be a fourth bolt (for the gearbox) further aft.

Some flavours of National have, I think, three bolts per side like that, plus a fourth for the gearbox.

The engine beds seem to be at a fairly steep angle compared to most Narrow Boat installations, makes me wonder whether it had a direct drive gearbox and needed the angle to get the prop low enough. That would make a semi-diesel more likely, but Bolinders have a big cast iron bedplate with the rearmost bolts - if fitted - on narrower centres than the rest.

 

Tim

[Laurence Hogg]

It seems the mystery of the half boat is solved. After discussions with Pete Harrison and some delving the following facts are known.

Calder was a horse boat built in 1907 for John Griffiths. It was motorised in the late 1940's and entered the fleet of the Warwickshire canal carrying company (run by the Griffiths family). It had a 18hp Petter hot bulb. It was hired and eventually sold to Thos Clayton Paddington Ltd for use as a tug, they subsquently were absorbed into BTW, disposal of it to Harefiled is recorded and also that it was broken in two. Hence the odd stern knee, t stud etc. Anyone link the engine bed to a Petter installation?

 

edited for typos as usual!

Edited March 17, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Timleech]

It seems the mystery of the half boat is solved. After discussions with Pete Harrison and some delving the following facts are known.

Calder was a horse boat built in 1907 for John Griffiths. It was motorised in the late 1940's and entered the fleet of the Warwickshire canal carrying company (run by the Griffiths family). It had a 18hp Petter hot bulb. It was hired and eventually sold to Thos Clayton Paddington Ltd for use as a tug, they subsquently were absorbed into BTW, disposal of it to Harefiled is recorded and also that it was broken in two. Hence the odd stern knee, t stud etc. Anyone link the engine bed to a Petter installation?

 

edited for typos as usual!

 

18hp is quite big for a Narrow Boat Petter, most seem to have been 12hp or less.

 

Tim

[Timleech]

My understanding of SATURN is that the old boat was dismantled to fully interpret its method of construction, the dismantled wood then being burnt. The new SATURN then being a completely new build but using ironwork from the original SATURN. Although I like the look of the new SATURN and I am sure it is a credible interpretation of a "Shropshire Union Fly Boat" I can't help feeling that the society formed to preserve these boats has actually been responsible for the demise of the last two examples to exist !

 

I never found out the real reason for doing it that way, it may be that one or two people had particular axes to grind. There wasn't much that was truly original there to 'interpret' anyway, a few pieces of bottom strake and half a stem post from what I remember, nobody asked me what I knew and some bits they didn't get right

 

Tim

[BuckbyLocks]

18hp is quite big for a Narrow Boat Petter, most seem to have been 12hp or less.

 

Tim

 

I think 'Heather Bell' had an 18hp Petter when first fitted out. Later replaced with a proper engine!

[Laurence Hogg]

The view today looking across the bows (buried) of FMC boats Iver and Keswick, shortly we will be posting a map of the locations (approximate) of all the boats at the site. These pictures show you how much things have changed. However note the curious angle tree trunks are growing at.

 

 

and today!

[carlt]

However note the curious angle tree trunks are growing at.

 

In a few more years they'll be just right for knees...

[Laurence Hogg]

Does anyone have any contacts who might have ground penetrating radar or the stuff time team use??

[Speedwheel]

or the stuff time team use??

 

...... a JCB and a tatty landrover!

[Laurence Hogg]

At last we can publish a approx layout of the site. Mark and myself have spent an awful lot of time going over images and plans of the site. The topography has changed over the years but some points of reference remained constant. So what you have here is our view of where the boats that were visible in photographs and have been seen recently lie. Please note the boat markers are scale length so the overview is as near as possible at the moment.

 

Also thank you all for your interest, this forum post has had over 3200 views compared to 74 on a well known other forum with the same post, well done CWDF!

 

Key to the map

Iron FMC craft:

1 Yardley

2 Upwood

3 Jersey

4 Penkridge

5 Amesbury

6 Tring (former Turkey)

7 Pretoria

8 Natal

9 Yeading

10 Keswick

11 Iver

 

Wooden FMC horse boats:

12 Ida

13 Ena

14 Dee

15 Fay

16 Gladys

17 Dorset

 

Wooden FMC Motor boat:

18 Erica

 

A H Taylor horse boat:

19 Daisy

 

L B Faulkner Horse boat:

20 Maud

 

Warickshore Canal carrying Co motor boat:

21 Calder

 

Thos Clayton (Paddington) wooden wide boats:

22 Jill

23 David

24 Trixie

25 Forget me not

26 Mavis

27 Edythe

28 Alberta

29 Rose of Tyburn

Note 26/29 are shown together as although two boats lie there exact id is not known.

 

30 indicates two boats which may be “Royalty” class buttys

31 Boyer metal wide boat

32 boat iron composite on its side

33 BCN iron joey

34 Unknown wooden wide boat

 

The following are known to be on the site but location is not known:

 

Associated Canal Carriers (Royalty class)(GUCCCo) buttys:

Adelaide

Albert

Alexandra

Countess

 

Warwickshire Canal Carrying Co

Motor boat “The King”

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Slight error, DEE and ENA are shown against one boat next to YARDLEY this is because we are unsure which is there, we know its one of them.

[Laurence Hogg]

Bit more info missed from post. The BCN boat is BCN 17928 (GU 24). The boat on its side is suspected to be a composite mud hopper.

[Speedwheel]

17928. Gauged Tipton 04/10/1907. Open Iron boat. 71.0ft long, 7ft wide.

Owned by W Ruleone (I think - writing is unclear) of Greets Green.

Draught when laden with 38 tonnes - 44.89. Draught when light - 7.45.

 

Late no. 10433.

 

Hired by W Roberts Ltd

[Laurence Hogg]

17928. Gauged Tipton 04/10/1907. Open Iron boat. 71.0ft long, 7ft wide.

Owned by W Ruleone (I think - writing is unclear) of Greets Green.

Draught when laden with 38 tonnes - 44.89. Draught when light - 7.45.

 

Late no. 10433.

 

Hired by W Roberts Ltd

 

W Rabone of Greets Green. Later sold to the GUCCo.

[Speedwheel]

Thanks Laurence. I can see it now you say.

[pete harrison]

W Rabone of Greets Green. Later sold to the GUCCo.

 

and Grand Union gauged as 12348 on 15 May 1934 named "Maintenance Boat No. 24" for the Grand Union Canal Company (although this gauge did not actually take place and the details were simply copied from the table B.C.N. 17928 - which was a common practice)

[pete harrison]

17928. Gauged Tipton 04/10/1907. Open Iron boat. 71.0ft long, 7ft wide.

Owned by W Ruleone (I think - writing is unclear) of Greets Green.

Draught when laden with 38 tonnes - 44.89. Draught when light - 7.45.

 

Late no. 10433.

 

Hired by W Roberts Ltd

 

B.C.N. 17928 was gauged on 04 October 1901, not 04 October 1907.

 

The first B.C.N. gauge table of 1907 is numbered 20126 and dated 03 January, whilst the last of 1907 is 20456 and dated 27 December.

 

The late number 10433 is its previous gauge number, i.e. B.C.N. 10433. Although this table is one of thousands removed and destroyed by the B.C.N. Company I can confidently date it to mid February 1880, possibly the 10th or 11th but I am unable to provide any further detail.

[Derek R.]

Don't forget these two . . .

 

 

Derek

[Laurence Hogg]

Don't forget these two . . .

 

 

Derek

 

Derek are those in Harefield marina? Seem to remember some along the edge skirting the Grand Union. Ex FMC "Hecla" was used as a mooring stage and I believe is still there. Also there is a tug "Panama" near the entrance.

[Speedwheel]

B.C.N. 17928 was gauged on 04 October 1901, not 04 October 1907.

 

Thanks Pete. That's me not reading the writing properly!

 

The late number 10433 is its previous gauge number, i.e. B.C.N. 10433. Although this table is one of thousands removed and destroyed by the B.C.N. Company I can confidently date it to mid February 1880, possibly the 10th or 11th but I am unable to provide any further detail.

 

My records jump from 10429, dated 09/02/1880 (a Monday), to 10438, dated 13/02/1880 (a Friday).

[Derek R.]

Derek are those in Harefield marina? Seem to remember some along the edge skirting the Grand Union. Ex FMC "Hecla" was used as a mooring stage and I believe is still there. Also there is a tug "Panama" near the entrance.

 

Yes, they were between the cut and the marina a bit further along from the entrance. That was taken at least 25yrs ago, so I don't know if anything now remains above water.

 

Derek