Canal Boat radio - revisited

[Mitch - Soma]

O.K., so I went about it all wrong yesterday - a poll would have been easier. Hypothetically, let's imagine a licence free, unrestricted radio system is already in place and most boatyards, waterway authorities and boats are on the network.

 

What the radio offers that your phone doesn't.

 

1 Instant, short range communication with any other craft on the move.

 

2 Localised general broadcasts regarding un-expected stoppages, or the status of facilities. (Elsan busted - will let you know when it's mended).

 

3 Instant alert to the nearest craft in an emergency. (Young Lass "Help, they busting my windows" - boat full of rugger-rambos 50 yards down is activated)

 

Would you pay between 50 and 200 quid to get on the network, or does your mobile/internet/yellow pages/118 serve all your needs?

[mickp]

O.K., so I went about it all wrong yesterday - a poll would have been easier. Hypothetically, let's imagine a licence free, unrestricted radio system is already in place and most boatyards, waterway authorities and boats are on the network.

 

What the radio offers that your phone doesn't.

 

1 Instant, short range communication with any other craft on the move.

 

2 Localised general broadcasts regarding un-expected stoppages, or the status of facilities. (Elsan busted - will let you know when it's mended).

 

3 Instant alert to the nearest craft in an emergency. (Young Lass "Help, they busting my windows" - boat full of rugger-rambos 50 yards down is activated)

 

Would you pay between 50 and 200 quid to get on the network, or does your mobile/internet/yellow pages/118 serve all your needs?

 

 

licence free pmr radios are only short range low power devices unfortunatly,the network which you would need would be very expensive to setup and run.a lot of companies are moving to mobile phones now because of the cost and reliability of these systems.marine vhf radios are usually line of site and work ok over the seas but poor inland with trees hills buildings etc .

[Roger Gunkel]

Sorry Mitch, I really don't see the point voting for something that is based on a hypothesis that has no likelyhood of ever happening. You might as well have a poll on would we all have electric boats if solar panels were 100% efficient intead of 15%, or if white diesel was available at canalside outlets for 15p per gallon would we all have Eber/webasto heaters.

 

If you really are that enthusiastic about selling these radios, you should persuade all the canalside outlets, marinas, emergency services etc, to install these systems and pay someone to monitor them all day long, before there is any chance of the idea being adopted in my opinion. The mobile phone and £10 walkie talkies have killed it stone dead as the other thread showed!!!

 

Roger

[romarni123]

Would you not have to have it on all the time,it would drain the batts to much for me

[mickp]

after reading this thread i tuned my ham radio down to the cb frequencies ,and yes that was what i remembered foul language and folk tuning over others trying to chat .i knew there was a reason for giving up on that mode years ago

[GUMPY]

What a silly idea, 30 years to late.

I haven't even turned on my 2m/70cms set for over a decade, note to self must sell it on ebay.

I use marine VHF when needed otherwise self contained here or if desperate there's always the mobile.

[Ray]

Why no go for the licence exempt PMR radios and have a designated channel/tone that people usually monitor?

[matty40s]

because it won't work Ray.

The company I work for has been paying over £200 p month to be part of a shopwatch system at a large transport hub with 24 hr police presence. We have a radio system on a certain channel which has 2 supposedly police carried radios on the same channel.

We have had 4 non responses in the last three months. Today, after monitoring a known offender for 45 minutes before he struck, I spent 12 minutes trying to summon assistance on said system........and then phoned 999 from my moby instead to get the Met police involved. Even though the perp was on the station at least 30 minutes after the crime was commited, he was not apprehended.

If such a system does not work in the capital city with a blanket police presence, then why should it work on a towpath in the middle of nowhere when Finchy strikes again.

[mickp]

Why no go for the licence exempt PMR radios and have a designated channel/tone that people usually monitor?

licence exempt pmr good for only a mile usually much much less,efficient antennas and higher rf power not allowed,if it was then it would get the same abuse as cb radio

[Mitch - Soma]

Yes, my first go at a universal canal radio - 2005 - was indeed PMR 446. (See Jim Sheads website, search canal boat radio). I still think it's a great idea for short range boat to boat com's while on the move. I suggested channel 8, Channel Gaurd 8, but I see someone else has recently suggested 8 - 0. Let's go for 8 - 0, everyone who already has PMR446 , and let's see if we can make it useful to all. Problem with PMR446 is the restrictions on aerials etc, no base stations could get going, and range - while very useful for craft to craft com's while in sight of each other, is well limited, but hell, I would rather talk to the other bloke than bang into him because niether of us was clear as to what the other was doing!

[Nickhlx]

Yes, my first go at a universal canal radio - 2005 - was indeed PMR 446. (See Jim Sheads website, search canal boat radio). I still think it's a great idea for short range boat to boat com's while on the move. I suggested channel 8, Channel Gaurd 8, but I see someone else has recently suggested 8 - 0. Let's go for 8 - 0, everyone who already has PMR446 , and let's see if we can make it useful to all. Problem with PMR446 is the restrictions on aerials etc, no base stations could get going, and range - while very useful for craft to craft com's while in sight of each other, is well limited, but hell, I would rather talk to the other bloke than bang into him because niether of us was clear as to what the other was doing!

 

 

Hi Mitch - I agree with you on the above... Most can't even hear what the wife is saying from the front of the boat, when at the tiller, let alone negotiate with another, who is dithering 100 yards away, about what his intentions are .... this is when I see it as being useful.. you don't need more than 400 yards to discuss who is doing what at the next lock. This as well as daytime / evening "banter" or assistance if needed....

 

We've all "agreed" ( ) that 1 mile plus range is for chatting and the phone "will do that admirably" ( although how I find out your phone number has got me beat) ... so, yes - I'll be leaving mine on CH8, code 0 this year ( and trickle-charging overnight, romarni123 - they are usually rechargeable)

 

Nick

Edited March 3, 2010 by Nickhlx

[Mitch - Soma]

Hi Mitch - I agree with you on the above... Most can't even hear what the wife is saying from the front of the boat, when at the tiller, let alone negotiate with another, who is dithering 100 yards away, about what his intentions are .... this is when I see it as being useful.. you don't need more than 400 yards to discuss who is doing what at the next lock. This as well as daytime / evening "banter" or assistance if needed....

 

We've all "agreed" ( ) that 1 mile plus range is for chatting and the phone "will do that admirably" ( although how I find out your phone number has got me beat) ... so, yes - I'll be leaving mine on CH8, code 0 this year ( and trickle-charging overnight, romarni123 - they are usually rechargeable)

 

Nick

 

You wait up at the lock - since we sorted that out on PMR446 - and we exchange phone numbers while waiting for the lock to fill

[Mitch - Soma]

O.K.

 

I wish to make "my" life easier. wouldn't it be great (since I am based in London), to rock up in Milton Keynes, on a visitor mooring, and instantly get hold of a Chinese???

I happen to like Chinese take-away, and to just "dial" for take-away's who are part of the network? For sure I am not going to give him my bank detail's, that's daft., but I am going to ask for his phone number, and I know his guy's will know how to get to me - he is part of the crowd, or he wouldn't have a Canal Boat Radio in his shop in the first place. So, instantly sorted - no special license, no forms, no "contract" - in fact it's easier than buying a Telly - C.b. radios can be bought anywhere - look on E-Bay -

 

Back to C. anal B. oat radio - forget the old stigma - Citizens Band was originaly designed to be useful - it's now totally under-utised or ignored - let's "squat" the facility and prove that it CAN be useful.

 

After a good friend made some proposals well different to my own, he has some exceptionally good points.

 

1 Calling Channell is 16 - one -six is far enough away from 19 and 14 not to bother others.

 

2 It is the Marine V.H.F. calling channel. so fit's well wth us. - Ch.16 is Canal Boat Call channel.

 

3 We stay with U.K. specific C.B. band - it gives less chance of cross-channel interference under skip conditions, dig out the old Charlie Bravo - you can use it..

 

4 Although not bound by law - ch. 9 is EMERGENCY ch. only.

 

5 So far, the first digit chart is O.K. - caveat is that it can be up-dated/modified according to majority wishes.

 

Go'wan, get yerself a Canal Boat Radio - Maplins got 'em in stock right now!!! (But try Argus - Argos, or LIDL - the German supermarket crowd - anyone, just, please, join us.)

 

Look forward to catching Perseus call as he enters Maidehill Tunnel - ( Maggie's Passenger Carriers could do without all us Muppets barging in from the "other side"!!!!!!)

 

Don't forget Cavalcade - li''le Venice - first weekend in May. Haven't booked? Who cares, look for nb. Soma - we can double -up, triple -up - wash th' Dog, feed th' Cat - who know's? Pr'haps we can convince James to play his Violin for us? Cavalcade in London is THE Canal and Inland Waterways occassion - oh, sorry, haven't I paid my membership yet?? C'mon IWA/NABO/RBOA/ anyone else interested in OUR waterways? - www.bridge19-40.org.uk

[bottle]

Yes, my first go at a universal canal radio - 2005 - was indeed PMR 446.

 

Errrr. I think this says it all, it did not happen then and it will not happen now.

 

Sorry Mitch.

[Graham Davis]

What a silly idea, 30 years to late.

I haven't even turned on my 2m/70cms set for over a decade, note to self must sell it on ebay.

I use marine VHF when needed otherwise self contained here or if desperate there's always the mobile.

 

I know a few people that might be interested in that in the 4x4 Response world.

[Roger Gunkel]

O.K.

 

I wish to make "my" life easier. wouldn't it be great (since I am based in London), to rock up in Milton Keynes, on a visitor mooring, and instantly get hold of a Chinese???

I happen to like Chinese take-away, and to just "dial" for take-away's who are part of the network? For sure I am not going to give him my bank detail's, that's daft., but I am going to ask for his phone number, and I know his guy's will know how to get to me - he is part of the crowd, or he wouldn't have a Canal Boat Radio in his shop in the first place. So, instantly sorted - no special license, no forms, no "contract" - in fact it's easier than buying a Telly - C.b. radios can be bought anywhere - look on E-Bay -

 

Back to C. anal B. oat radio - forget the old stigma - Citizens Band was originaly designed to be useful - it's now totally under-utised or ignored - let's "squat" the facility and prove that it CAN be useful.

 

After a good friend made some proposals well different to my own, he has some exceptionally good points.

 

1 Calling Channell is 16 - one -six is far enough away from 19 and 14 not to bother others.

 

2 It is the Marine V.H.F. calling channel. so fit's well wth us. - Ch.16 is Canal Boat Call channel.

 

3 We stay with U.K. specific C.B. band - it gives less chance of cross-channel interference under skip conditions, dig out the old Charlie Bravo - you can use it..

 

4 Although not bound by law - ch. 9 is EMERGENCY ch. only.

 

5 So far, the first digit chart is O.K. - caveat is that it can be up-dated/modified according to majority wishes.

 

Go'wan, get yerself a Canal Boat Radio - Maplins got 'em in stock right now!!! (But try Argus - Argos, or LIDL - the German supermarket crowd - anyone, just, please, join us.)

 

Look forward to catching Perseus call as he enters Maidehill Tunnel - ( Maggie's Passenger Carriers could do without all us Muppets barging in from the "other side"!!!!!!)

 

Don't forget Cavalcade - li''le Venice - first weekend in May. Haven't booked? Who cares, look for nb. Soma - we can double -up, triple -up - wash th' Dog, feed th' Cat - who know's? Pr'haps we can convince James to play his Violin for us? Cavalcade in London is THE Canal and Inland Waterways occassion - oh, sorry, haven't I paid my membership yet?? C'mon IWA/NABO/RBOA/ anyone else interested in OUR waterways? - www.bridge19-40.org.uk

 

 

Is it Groundhog day again?

 

Roger

[churchward]

Is it Groundhog day again?

 

Roger

Well they do say an hour after a Chinese meal you feel hungry again!

[FadeToScarlet]

O.K., so I went about it all wrong yesterday - a poll would have been easier. Hypothetically, let's imagine a licence free, unrestricted radio system is already in place and most boatyards, waterway authorities and boats are on the network.

 

What the radio offers that your phone doesn't.

 

1 Instant, short range communication with any other craft on the move.

 

So does waving and shouting, or dropping a crewmember onto the towpath to jog towards anyone. You mentioned about obstructions in bridgeholes, etc., in your last thread- why not wave at any boats passing in the opposite direction, and tell them? It's not like you're each in HGVs doing 70 in opposite directions on the motorway...

 

2 Localised general broadcasts regarding un-expected stoppages, or the status of facilities. (Elsan busted - will let you know when it's mended).

 

Thing is, though, they'd have to be repeated every 20 mins or so to make sure that everyone gets the message. Say an Elsan point breaks at lunchtime; I'm on my boat but have decided to stop for lunch, and enjoy the peace and quiet, and so have switched the radio off. As a result, I miss the message, unless it's repeated.

 

3 Instant alert to the nearest craft in an emergency. (Young Lass "Help, they busting my windows" - boat full of rugger-rambos 50 yards down is activated)

 

But this does assume that both boats have radios, on the same frequency, and that they're both on. What if the rugger rambos all pass out drunk as newts by 8pm, and don't hear the message? Or if their radio isn't working? Or if young lass hasn't got the battery power to turn on her radio?

 

And, hopefully, you'd be able to hear the tinkling of glass from 50 yards away.

 

 

I'm sorry to widdle on your fire, but I really don't think the idea is practical- or, rather, the APPLICATION of the idea wouldn't work.

 

 

WHat if you move away from the old-tech CB technology, towards new?

 

If everyone had a mobile capable of sending a localised text message to all other similarly-equipped mobiles in the area, or had a twitter-style status update? If each came up not as a phone number but as a name, e.g. @nbchertsey, or @nbblackrose, or @kingslockchandlery- or, hopefully, @theboatman'srest!- and your phone automatically displayed who was about and broadcasting, and let you see their message....

 

Or it wouldn't have to be a mobile, merely a cheaply-produced black box with SIM card, keyboard, and a very simple LCD display and operating system.

 

It's technologically feasible, but expensive.

Edited March 4, 2010 by FadeToScarlet

[Roger Gunkel]

So does waving and shouting, or dropping a crewmember onto the towpath to jog towards anyone. You mentioned about obstructions in bridgeholes, etc., in your last thread- why not wave at any boats passing in the opposite direction, and tell them? It's not like you're each in HGVs doing 70 in opposite directions on the motorway...

 

 

 

Thing is, though, they'd have to be repeated every 20 mins or so to make sure that everyone gets the message. Say an Elsan point breaks at lunchtime; I'm on my boat but have decided to stop for lunch, and enjoy the peace and quiet, and so have switched the radio off. As a result, I miss the message, unless it's repeated.

 

 

 

But this does assume that both boats have radios, on the same frequency, and that they're both on. What if the rugger rambos all pass out drunk as newts by 8pm, and don't hear the message? Or if their radio isn't working? Or if young lass hasn't got the battery power to turn on her radio?

 

And, hopefully, you'd be able to hear the tinkling of glass from 50 yards away.

 

 

I'm sorry to widdle on your fire, but I really don't think the idea is practical- or, rather, the APPLICATION of the idea wouldn't work.

 

WHat if you move away from the old-tech CB technology, towards new?

 

If everyone had a mobile capable of sending a localised text message to all other similarly-equipped mobiles in the area, or had a twitter-style status update? If each came up not as a phone number but as a name, e.g. @nbchertsey, or @nbblackrose, or @kingslockchandlery- or, hopefully, @theboatman'srest!- and your phone automatically displayed who was about and broadcasting, and let you see their message....

 

Or it wouldn't have to be a mobile, merely a cheaply-produced black box with SIM card, keyboard, and a very simple LCD display and operating system.

 

It's technologically feasible, but expensive.

 

Sensible post!!

 

Seeing as everyone on this forum has a computer, there is always skype, which is also available for many mobiles now. Skype already enables you to see who is online and has a business facility to enable you to search for local businesses. It is also free and isn't limited by range.

 

Lets also not forget phones like the Blackberry. O2 very kindly sent me a free Blackberry Curve, which has an unlimited Blackberry internet account, wifi and gprs when I am not on wifi, GPS with google maps and Blackberry maps, and nearest businesses to your location, searchable for any type of business. (I even found my own on there). Plus you get phone and text etc etc. It all cost me £25 per month and fits in my pocket, the technology is already there we don't need even more !

 

Roger

Edited March 4, 2010 by Roger Gunkel

[GRPCruiserman]

On the Lancaster Canal most boats are fitted with CBs, and most used channel 12 if I remember rightly. CB radio is little used up here these days so if was relatively clear and language free other than the odd trucker passing on the motorway.

 

Amateur Radio is very much alive in The North West with many active clubs and 2 metres especially being very well used. If the poster with the dual-band radio doesn't want it any more you could always post it to me!! lol. It would get loads of use then. There are Radio Amateurs with boats but not many.

 

Marine VHF was used I recall right up the Trent and was most useful, but that was some years ago.

[fuzzyduck]

I'm still in..

 

Yes i have a laptop with a dongle, I have 2 3G phones that are both "smart" and will both teather. but i go boating to get away from that, and would welcome a bit of CB action for squits and giggles.

 

I'm still in..

 

Yes i have a laptop with a dongle, I have 2 3G phones that are both "smart" and will both teather. but i go boating to get away from that, and would welcome a bit of CB action for squits and giggles.

[alan_fincher]

I'm still in..

 

Yes i have a laptop with a dongle, I have 2 3G phones that are both "smart" and will both teather. but i go boating to get away from that, and would welcome a bit of CB action for squits and giggles.

 

I'm still in..

 

Yes i have a laptop with a dongle, I have 2 3G phones that are both "smart" and will both teather. but i go boating to get away from that, and would welcome a bit of CB action for squits and giggles.

If you were on Amateur bands, I would venture to suggest you are using a Repeater!

[fuzzyduck]

very good. :lol:

 

my wired internet sucks donkey balls.

[Nickhlx]

I think one of the selling points or otherwise of the radio system will be the ability ( potentially) to contact "that boat over there", who may need help, who you may want help from, who you may want to ask what his intentions are, who you may want to pass you as you are stopping for lunch although you are ahead of him coming up to a lock, etc etc - i.e. the ability to contact an otherwise unknown boat....

 

others might be...

- can anyone help me out with a 22mm spanner for 5 mins ? ...

- how far to the next winding point, shops, pub, anything ?...

- is there a first aider anywhere in range ?

- has anyone got a ladder as "Jimmy" has fallen in and can't get out ?

 

Literally dozens of possible requests for assistance...

 

- when stopping it might help to discuss some aspect of the environment ( animals / gates ) of concern

 

- thanks for letting me pass / helping me out - we are stopping in 30 mins - fancy a pint / drink ?

 

It's the ability to contact someone locally that, ironically, a phone can't do, unless you know their number... you cant talk to nearby boaters, possibly in sight but out of earshot, possibly at night if you have concerns about lurkers on the footpath - again many possible reasons for wanting to contact someone else.

 

Of course there will be people who want their private space and nothing to do with anyone else - they can switch it off or not have one - however, some may well have been travelling part of the afternoon with another, nodding and gesticulating whilst moving, discovering they are also equipped with a radio and suddenly be able to communicate more easily and suggest a meet-up for a drink or know directions to the local ???

 

I am sure you know what I mean ....

 

If you have one, you have the choice / ability to do these things - if you don't, you don't

 

Nick

Edited March 4, 2010 by Nickhlx

[GRPCruiserman]

I think one of the selling points or otherwise of the radio system will be the ability ( potentially) to contact "that boat over there", who may need help, who you may want help from, who you may want to ask what his intentions are, who you may want to pass you as you are stopping for lunch although you are ahead of him coming up to a lock, etc etc - i.e. the ability to contact an otherwise unknown boat....

 

others might be...

- can anyone help me out with a 22mm spanner for 5 mins ? ...

- how far to the next winding point, shops, pub, anything ?...

- is there a first aider anywhere in range ?

- has anyone got a ladder as "Jimmy" has fallen in and can't get out ?

 

Literally dozens of possible requests for assistance...

 

- when stopping it might help to discuss some aspect of the environment ( animals / gates ) of concern

 

- thanks for letting me pass / helping me out - we are stopping in 30 mins - fancy a pint / drink ?

 

It's the ability to contact someone locally that, ironically, a phone can't do, unless you know their number... you cant talk to nearby boaters, possibly in sight but out of earshot, possibly at night if you have concerns about lurkers on the footpath - again many possible reasons for wanting to contact someone else.

 

Of course there will be people who want their private space and nothing to do with anyone else - they can switch it off or not have one - however, some may well have been travelling part of the afternoon with another, nodding and gesticulating whilst moving, discovering they are also equipped with a radio and suddenly be able to communicate more easily and suggest a meet-up for a drink or know directions to the local ???

 

I am sure you know what I mean ....

 

If you have one, you have the choice / ability to do these things - if you don't, you don't

 

Nick

 

On the Lancaster it's used for many of these things, including 'boat coming the other way at bridge XX' which is always handy to know.

 

It's how CB was originally intended on the roads but became too much of a 'culture' and too popular for itself, especially with the 'less desirable' types who presumably now haunt somewhere else, but due to it's now lack of use is ideal for the purpose described by the original poster.

 

It's cheap and readily available (I know of at least two motorway service areas that have CB shops, and some major electronic chains still sell them, not to mention internet auction sites), and easy to fit, and now licence free; it just has a ertain 'stigma' and a bad reputation. Just get all your friends to get one and eventually every boat on the canal could have one.