Associated Canal Carriers

[mykaskin]

Hi Folks,

 

After getting some photos of Victoria from the archives at Gloucester I notice the stern doesn't have the fleet colours around the stern (it's all blacked). Does any know if ACC put colours on before it became the GUCCC?

 

Hopefully this small image is OK re publication - fair use surely. Available to buy from http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html etc...

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Laurence Hogg]

Looking at early pictures of the ACC boats, in particular "George" and "Mary" there is no decorative paint below gunwale at all, Even the bow top strake is plain black and the rear one on the butty, the same.

[Paul H]

Hi Folks,

 

After getting some photos of Victoria from the archives at Gloucester I notice the stern doesn't have the fleet colours around the stern (it's all blacked). Does any know if ACC put colours on before it became the GUCCC?

 

Hopefully this small image is OK re publication - fair use surely. Available to buy from http://www.virtualwaterways.co.uk/home.html etc...

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

This pic of Henry shows some paint on the counter.

 

I suspect they all varied depending on the builder and didn't get a repaint until GUCCC was formed.

 

So as you are lucky enough to have a builder's photo - I'd stick with that. Next problem, what were the colours? Was there scumbling round the edge of the cabin?

 

Paul

[mykaskin]

This pic of Henry shows some paint on the counter.

 

I suspect they all varied depending on the builder and didn't get a repaint until GUCCC was formed.

 

So as you are lucky enough to have a builder's photo - I'd stick with that. Next problem, what were the colours? Was there scumbling round the edge of the cabin?

 

Paul

 

That picture of Henry was after a repaint by Nursers yard - hence the Nursers stylying sometime before GUCCC but after purchase I think.

 

The colours were a dark green and a light green it seems - I have one photo which looks like the lighter colour may have been scrumbled, but the above image shows it plain so much be a trick of the light or photo. I've just purchased Deep Brunswick Green, and Mid Brunswick Green, which may be darker than the original, but I prefer the darker stronger greens. If it's a bit much I might get the border redone in a lighter green later.

 

Mike

 

Looking at early pictures of the ACC boats, in particular "George" and "Mary" there is no decorative paint below gunwale at all, Even the bow top strake is plain black and the rear one on the butty, the same.

 

I don't really class George and Mary as being the same as the rest of the Royalty boats - they were test designs, built by GUCC who had them made to give to another company to buy/rent. ACC ended up with them once GUCC bought the company. However it doesn't mean that many design details weren't taken from them.

 

Here is Victoria's stem a year or two after purchase:

 

 

Still trying to work out the colours, and the design around the start of the name where the light is also hitting the steelwork - there is a diamond shape near the bow partly covered by a line.

 

Mike

[BuckbyLocks]

I suspect they all varied depending on the builder and didn't get a repaint until GUCCC was formed.

 

So as you are lucky enough to have a builder's photo - I'd stick with that. Next problem, what were the colours? Was there scumbling round the edge of the cabin?

 

Paul

 

Edward appears to have been blacked all round the stern at launch as well as Victoria, and both went straight into ACC livery before leaving Yarwoods.

 

My vote would be for scumble looking at the picture in McKnight's Canal & River Craft in Pictures.

[David Schweizer]

For what it is worth "Colours of the Cut" show the stern tunnel bands of ACC boat Victoria to be black. The cabin sides are shown with panels painted very dark green with mid light green framing and a yellow band between them. The lettering is shown as white with mid light green shading to the right.

Edited February 17, 2010 by David Schweizer

[mykaskin]

My vote would be for scumble looking at the picture in McKnight's Canal & River Craft in Pictures.

 

I actually have a scan of that photo from the archives - I originally thought it was scrumbled, but on closer inspection it almost looks like someone has spilt something down the side - you can see it on the gunnels as well as the roof, and since the photo is an awkward one taken from inside a dock looking out I wonder if something happened and a photo was taken for proof? I'm sure there is a story behind it anyway.

 

The other side photo (the one above) shows the sides well enough to discount graining, although I think it would look quite cool with it.

 

 

For what it is worth "Colours of the Cut" show the stern tunnel bands of ACC boat Victoria to be black. The cabin sides are shown with panels painted very dark green with mid light green framing and a yellow band between them. The lettering is shown as white with mid light green shading to the right.

 

Yes I have colours of the cut, and looked closely at it. I'm basing the design on them colours. Just in case it looks stupid with a black behind I'm going to get it painted with a white/green to start with, then perhaps a test in gloss black before going the whole hog on the next blacking.

 

Apperently once someone was asked to black everything under the gunnel on a boat, and so promptly did. It was a pain to get the blacking off around the stern again!

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited February 18, 2010 by mykaskin

[Laurence Hogg]

I'm fascinated to see that this picture shows the cloths on Edward and Alexandra are not marked with the company name, as was normally the case, but are emblazoned with the words "SEND GOODS BY GRAND UNION CANAL".

 

Are there other examples for cloths being used for a direct marketing message?

 

David

 

There were several examples when special cargoes were involved, ie Raleigh cycles, Morris cars used side advertising. Severn and canal used massive lettering and of course Ovaltines used the deck board.

 

Anyone clocked the 90o forward facing exhaust on Edward in that pic?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Liam]

John Knill also used the words "USE INLAND WATERWAYS" on his cloths.

[Derek R.]

(snip)

Anyone clocked the 90o forward facing exhaust on Edward in that pic?

 

Yes - and the air horns! They may have been diaphragm, but nice trumpets.

(For the degree symbol, hold down 'Alt' and press 0176 = ° )

 

Derek Reynolds

[springy]

Hi

 

There's also a photo of Victoria in Tony Lewery's "The Art of The Narrowboat Painters", dated

1932, good side view of the cabin but unfortunately doesn't show much of the stern, partly

because the photo runs into the spine of the book. (Can't get it on the scanner, will try with

camera - if I have any joy I'll post it later).

 

springy

[mykaskin]

Hi

 

There's also a photo of Victoria in Tony Lewery's "The Art of The Narrowboat Painters", dated

1932, good side view of the cabin but unfortunately doesn't show much of the stern, partly

because the photo runs into the spine of the book. (Can't get it on the scanner, will try with

camera - if I have any joy I'll post it later).

 

springy

 

Hi,

 

I already have that image also. Thanks anyway.

 

...this one you mean, I assume.

 

The band is also not there. It was obviously delivered from Northwich without a band.

 

I just wonder how universal the fleet colours idea were? All the later GU boats had the fleet colours, and I presume the stern colours started with steamer narrowboats? (at least on motor boats).

 

Mike

Edited February 19, 2010 by mykaskin

[springy]

Yes thats the one, is it the lighting or is the exhaust square ?

 

springy

[Laurence Hogg]

Yes thats the one, is it the lighting or is the exhaust square ?

 

springy

 

The exhaust funnels are a "rounded oblong" in section and slant astern.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Laurence Hogg

[Laurie Booth]

Just came across this photograph:

 

Early 1930's British feature film being made.

 

Hope it is of interest.

 

I'm trying to find out the name of the film.

 

 

[Laurence Hogg]

Just came across this photograph:

 

Early 1930's British feature film being made.

 

Hope it is of interest.

 

I'm trying to find out the name of the film.

 

 

 

Thats an exciting find, is it BS Productions? (Taken over by Paul Barralet Productions 1944) the lost film "Many Waters"

[Laurie Booth]

Thats an exciting find, is it BS Productions? (Taken over by Paul Barralet Productions 1944) the lost film "Many Waters"

Sorry for the delay, I've had to do a bit of research. It is from the feature film made in the early 1930's called "Three men in a boat" Must admit I have only seen the 1950's version.

 

Cheers

Edited July 15, 2011 by Laurie.Booth

[mykaskin]

While this is speculation, but I'm guessing the boat has recently been blacked (and probably painted hence it's use in the film), as there is no scum marks. Assuming it's empty, perhaps it's a recent adition to the ACC fleet, some boats and dates I have for ACC:

 

x.12.32 – ACC buys JOSEPHINE and COOMBE ABBEY

x.2.33 – ACC buys FMC’s RUGBY

x.x.33 – ACC buys SPEEDY, SHAMROCK, COUNT, COUNTESS

 

as it doesn't seem big enough to be a royalty.

 

BTW - since starting this thread I've seen pictures of the Pollock Royalty's being launched, again sans tunnel bands, and after seeing Duke done without the bands, I'm going to follow suit 'cause it looks better!

 

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

Edited July 15, 2011 by mykaskin

[Laurence Hogg]

The boat in the film photo is around half loaded so the hull is much deeper than is showing.

[pete harrison]

While this is speculation, but I'm guessing the boat has recently been blacked (and probably painted hence it's use in the film), as there is no scum marks. Assuming it's empty, perhaps it's a recent adition to the ACC fleet, some boats and dates I have for ACC:

 

x.12.32 – ACC buys JOSEPHINE and COOMBE ABBEY

x.2.33 – ACC buys FMC’s RUGBY

x.x.33 – ACC buys SPEEDY, SHAMROCK, COUNT, COUNTESS

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

Where have you got these dates from as they are all wrong ! - and JOSEPHINE was actually named JOSEPHINE MARGUERITE.

[mykaskin]

Where have you got these dates from as they are all wrong ! - and JOSEPHINE was actually named JOSEPHINE MARGUERITE.

 

Well, no surprise there then... there are from Narrowboat Magazine, and "The George and The Mary". I may have made mistakes, as I haven't proof checked anything yet!

 

Mike

[pete harrison]

Well, no surprise there then... there are from Narrowboat Magazine, and "The George and The Mary". I may have made mistakes, as I haven't proof checked anything yet!

 

Mike

 

Hmmm - my copy of NarrowBoat magazine Summer 2009 gives a fairly comprehensive A.C.C. Ltd. / G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. fleet list where the acquisition dates all agree with mine, except I also have the specific date of acquisition directly from company records. Perhaps there is a northern version and a southern version of this magazine and we have the opposite !

[Derek R.]

 

I think better without.

 

Certainly makes a different aspect of proportions.

 

Photo 1981.

[mykaskin]

Hmmm - my copy of NarrowBoat magazine Summer 2009 gives a fairly comprehensive A.C.C. Ltd. / G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. fleet list where the acquisition dates all agree with mine, except I also have the specific date of acquisition directly from company records. Perhaps there is a northern version and a southern version of this magazine and we have the opposite !

 

By the looks of it, I was using the main text in a 1973 edition of the George and the Mary. This gives a rather wooly and wrong account of when boats came and went. I think I had the Narrowboat mag at the time, but obviously never thought to look up in the lists for non-GUCCC boats!

 

Like I said, not proof read yet, and the old adage of publish and be damned works even better on non-checked texts!

 

I'm attempting to put together a little potted history of ACC, and a timeline of events for my website. When I'm ready I wouldn't mind you casting your eye over it, if you would please?

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[Laurence Hogg]

In July "Canals Rivers & Boats" page 46, a picture of "Prince" in ACC livery with a "white" counter band applied.