boat insulation

[flo]

Hi

I will be insulating my boat with Kingspan this weekend, should I fix it to the steel with some type of adhesive or will making sure its very tight between the battens and then with ply on top of it be sufficient ?

Many thanks Jane

[nb Innisfree]

Hi

I will be insulating my boat with Kingspan this weekend, should I fix it to the steel with some type of adhesive or will making sure its very tight between the battens and then with ply on top of it be sufficient ?

Many thanks Jane

 

First of all paint steel with good quality steel primer, when it's dry brush polyurethane glue onto primer spray with water then straight away apply previously cut and sized Kingspan and clamp in place using lengths of battening etc. Leave gaps between sheets and fill later with Pu aerosol foam and trim when set. If you can, make sure Kingspan finishes proud of any steel bearers so you can encase these in aerosol foam later. If I were to do it I would remove foil from one side of Kingspan and stick straight onto wet primed steel, saves all that messing with glue. Maybe leaving foil on is sufficient I don't know, you could try a few experimental pieces to see which is better. when done all steel needs to be covered with Kingspan or Pu foam, no gaps or pinholes which will allow condensation to form. Really take your time and make a thorough job it will pay dividends later in cold weather.

 

Edited to add: sticking 9mm ply with Pu adhesive on top of Kingspan makes for a very robust finish.

Edited January 19, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[flo]

First of all paint steel with good quality steel primer, when it's dry brush polyurethane glue onto primer spray with water then straight away apply previously cut and sized Kingspan and clamp in place using lengths of battening etc. Leave gaps between sheets and fill later with Pu aerosol foam and trim when set. If you can, make sure Kingspan finishes proud of any steel bearers so you can encase these in aerosol foam later. If I were to do it I would remove foil from one side of Kingspan and stick straight onto wet primed steel, saves all that messing with glue. Maybe leaving foil on is sufficient I don't know, you could try a few experimental pieces to see which is better. when done all steel needs to be covered with Kingspan or Pu foam, no gaps or pinholes which will allow condensation to form. Really take your time and make a thorough job it will pay dividends later in cold weather.

 

Edited to add: sticking 9mm ply with Pu adhesive on top of Kingspan makes for a very robust finish.

 

 

 

 

Thats great, thanks for your advice

[number four]

can anyone provide a link for a supplyer of thinsulate

thanks

[DHutch]

It's a fairly rigid blue coloured lightweight material about 3" thick not sure what it is called.

Sounds like an extruded closed cell polystyrene to me although im open to contradiction, certainly thats what styrofoam is (dow brandname).

 

Emilyanne was insulated with the, paint well, sheet white ps, polythene barrer, boarding.

 

However these days i think theres a lot in favor of sprayfoam, for which i proberbly wouldnt paint it, althouth i would still advocated through and vigorous painting of the inside of the baseplate up to a height of maybe 4inches, where you floor and sprayfoam kick in.

 

 

 

Daniel

[smileypete]

Hi

I will be insulating my boat with Kingspan this weekend, should I fix it to the steel with some type of adhesive or will making sure its very tight between the battens and then with ply on top of it be sufficient ?

Many thanks Jane

I'd glue it to the steel with a few blobs of expanding foam so it's almost flush with the tops of the battens.

 

Then fill the gaps between the insulation sheets and battens with more expanding foam, if there's a bit of a gap it will be easier to get the aerosol nozzle in.

 

Ideally then tape over the edges of the sheets and across the battens with aluminium tape so there's a continuous layer of foil on the inside.

 

Not sure I'd glue the plywood linings to the insulation sheets unless absolutely sure I'd never need to gain access behind them.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[nb Innisfree]

I'd glue it to the steel with a few blobs of expanding foam so it's almost flush with the tops of the battens.

 

Then fill the gaps between the insulation sheets and battens with more expanding foam, if there's a bit of a gap it will be easier to get the aerosol nozzle in.

 

Ideally then tape over the edges of the sheets and across the battens with aluminium tape so there's a continuous layer of foil on the inside.

 

Not sure I'd glue the plywood linings to the insulation sheets unless absolutely sure I'd never need to gain access behind them.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Problem with a few blobs is steel is still exposed in places to air which will result in condensation forming, all air must be excluded from steel.

 

 

 

Sounds like an extruded closed cell polystyrene to me although im open to contradiction.

 

Emilyanne was isulated with the, paint well, sheet white ps, polythene barrer, boarding.

 

However these days i think theres a lot in favor of sprayfoam, for which i proberbly wouldnt paint it, althouh i would still advocated through and vigorous painting of the inside of the baseplate up to a height of maybe 4inches, where you floor and sprayfoam kick in.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Sprayfoam definitely adheres better to primed steel, also Websters recommend it.

[DHutch]

Sprayfoam definitely adheres better to primed steel, also Websters recommend it.

Well thats really a statement you can make is it.

 

I mean, some spray foams may adhere better to some primmer better than some steel but thats a long way from your statement.

Even if you take pu sprayfoam to be a single product (lets face it, there all fairly similar) then if you pick an unsuitable primer you could end up with practical no adhesion at all or even a chemical reaction between the two. Plus even if the foam sticks to the primmer like the brown stuff to blankets if you've put the primer on top of scale covered oiled steel they'll just fall off together!

You might even be right to say that, in general, most cases show, that the foam sticks better if a primer is used first. But thats still a country mile from the above statement, widely open to people cocking it up, and possibly largely irrelevant anyway if its actually good enough without improvement.

 

But of a rant there, but while im a big fan of spending money where its needed and on doing a job well and right, just because one company do it and say its good (would they say any other) doesnt mean its is eather good or better. I agree air must be kept of the cold steel however, thats why in EA where board insulation was used, a polythene vapour was also used the hull was also grit blasted and painted with two pack throughout the inside.

 

 

 

Daniel

[nb Innisfree]

Well thats really a statement you can make is it.

 

I mean, some spray foams may adhere better to some primmer better than some steel but thats a long way from your statement.

Even if you take pu sprayfoam to be a single product (lets face it, there all fairly similar) then if you pick an unsuitable primer you could end up with practical no adhesion at all or even a chemical reaction between the two. Plus even if the foam sticks to the primmer like the brown stuff to blankets if you've put the primer on top of scale covered oiled steel they'll just fall off together!

You might even be right to say that, in general, most cases show, that the foam sticks better if a primer is used first. But thats still a country mile from the above statement, widely open to people cocking it up, and possibly largely irrelevant anyway if its actually good enough without improvement.

 

But of a rant there, but while im a big fan of spending money where its needed and on doing a job well and right, just because one company do it and say its good (would they say any other) doesnt mean its is eather good or better. I agree air must be kept of the cold steel however, thats why in EA where board insulation was used, a polythene vapour was also used the hull was also grit blasted and painted with two pack throughout the inside.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

I was basing my statement on several examples of sprayfoam sticking much better to quality primer (International IIRC) steel was dry and oil free. Websters don't or didn't paint steel they just sprayfoamed it.

 

My statement was meant as advice not to be taken as gospel. I did say in my earlier post to experiment with different methods, you said to use several blobs which could also be widely open to people cocking it up, why is your advice better than mine?

[smileypete]

Problem with a few blobs is steel is still exposed in places to air which will result in condensation forming, all air must be excluded from steel.

I'd give the steel a coat of primer then.

 

As Dan says, the vapour barrier on the 'warm' side of the insulation will stop 99.99% of humidity.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[nb Innisfree]

I'd give the steel a coat of primer then.

 

As Dan says, the vapour barrier on the 'warm' side of the insulation will stop 99.99% of humidity.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Make sure if you decide on sprayfoam it goes down to the baseplate, I had mine done to floor level and blacked the bottom 5" or so and it continually condenses there when it's cold enough, and runs down into the bilge.

 

As an aside fire resistant sprayfoam will still burn furiously if exposed to enough heat in a fire, painting over foam with a fire resistant paint is a good idea IMO if you are up for that. Maybe a water based emulsion?

Edited January 20, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[ChrisPy]

I don't know how much is enough heat, but when I soldered my 28mm copper hot water circulation pipes fitted tight against the PU foam I applied intense heat for up to a couple of minutes onto the joints and therefore directly onto the PU and all I got was a scorching.

[smileypete]

Make sure if you decide on sprayfoam it goes down to the baseplate, I had mine done to floor level and blacked the bottom 5" or so and it continually condenses there when it's cold enough, and runs down into the bilge.

Think I'd try to take a vapour barrier across under the floor, probably using foil type stuff. Any air gap underneath would allow it to form a radiant heat barrier, to reduce heat loss from floor to base plate.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[nb Innisfree]

I don't know how much is enough heat, but when I soldered my 28mm copper hot water circulation pipes fitted tight against the PU foam I applied intense heat for up to a couple of minutes onto the joints and therefore directly onto the PU and all I got was a scorching.

 

Pu foam should really be covered with fire resistant material, ok fire resistant foam should be used in boats but fire resistant is not fire proof, enough heat over a large enough area and it will go and go quickly, a suitable fire resistant coating of paint will reduce this risk. I haven't done it but wish I had. Where I fitted our boat out we used to throw all the sprayfoam offcuts, some quite large, onto a fire and it went like the clappers. Not wanting to be alarmist but it needs to be kept in mind.

[ChrisPy]

Pu foam should really be covered with fire resistant material, ok fire resistant foam should be used in boats but fire resistant is not fire proof, enough heat over a large enough area and it will go and go quickly, a suitable fire resistant coating of paint will reduce this risk. I haven't done it but wish I had. Where I fitted our boat out we used to throw all the sprayfoam offcuts, some quite large, onto a fire and it went like the clappers. Not wanting to be alarmist but it needs to be kept in mind.

hmm ..... I would guess by the time a fire had reached similar proportions the boat would have been long abandoned and written off.

[nb Innisfree]

hmm ..... I would guess by the time a fire had reached similar proportions the boat would have been long abandoned and written off.

 

Possibly but if a fire breaks out a slower rate of spread increases chances of extinguishing it or escaping it.

[blackrose]

I haven't read the whole thread but my vote is for sprayfoam, followed by Kingspan or some other 1" (or 2" below gunwhale) PU board stuck on with a PU adhesive/sealant and the seams filled with foam and/or taped over with a vapor barrier tape.

 

Can anyone tell me what the thinnest gauge of Kingspan or Cellotex is? Do they make it in half inch thickness?

[starman]

Can anyone tell me what the thinnest gauge of Kingspan or Cellotex is? Do they make it in half inch thickness?

 

From memory an inch but it's probably on their websites - I think the stuff would be unmanageably flimsy below an inch thick though.

[ditchcrawler]

I don't know how much is enough heat, but when I soldered my 28mm copper hot water circulation pipes fitted tight against the PU foam I applied intense heat for up to a couple of minutes onto the joints and therefore directly onto the PU and all I got was a scorching.

When we cut a hole and welded an up stand for the pigeon box ours didn't catch fire.

[Wyn2joy]

1) www.tnorrismarine.co.uk

 

2) Keto

North House,

55 NorthRoad,

Poole,

Dorset,

BH14 0LT

United Kingdom

 

Tel: +44 (0) 1202 715171

Fax: +44 (0) 1202 715172

 

3)Diverse Marine Solutions

Premium House,

Hambridge Road,

Newbury,

Berkshire,

RG14 5SS

United Kingdom

 

Tel: 01635 47894

Fax: 01635 528642

 

 

can anyone provide a link for a supplyer of thinsulate

thanks

[Westyman]

To resurect a 2 year old thread, one builder recommended Thinsulate to me and on a boat in part-build, the acoustic properties were immediately noticeable. When I raised this with another builder they came clean and said they had no experience of it so, as my preferred builder, I'll go with what they are familar with rather than being a test case!!

[baldlimey]

I would always vote for lambs wool, self extinguishing, absorbs moisture without losing insulation value and probably the most environmentally friendly insulation you can get.

 

Cheers

 

Peter

[Pykebird]

We used both kingspan and rockwall. There is kingspan on the floor and under the gunnels, rockwall above the gunnels and on the roof.

The main choice was the cost, The kingspan was second hand from a builder (some scrathches and a couple of corners chipped),this cost £80. The rockwall was from B&Q on a buy one get one free offer.

I find the boat nice and toasty, and even had to remove the snow from my roof last year.

My friend has just bought a brand new collingswood boat which is sprayfoamed, and she swears my boat is always warmer!