Sunken boat in Cambridge

[carlt]

Remember whatever you install it will still require a power source, batteries discharge themselves so some other power source will be required as well.

And then the boat will still sink, when someone steals your solar panels.

[Robbo]

And then the boat will still sink, when someone steals your solar panels.

 

Or they got covered in snow

[Chertsey]

Well I do think you should have taken some kind of action. Anything would have been better than the current state of affairs.

 

Even if it put you out a little or caused you some hassle there would have been something you could have done.

 

I don't want to give you too much of a hard time but imagine if it was your boat - boats can sink in a remarkably short time - while you're down the shops even - what if someone saw your boat about to sink and walked on by?

But without equipment - manual pumps, or electric pump and battery - what kind of useful action could he have taken?

 

It seems to me that FTS makes a good point when he says that it should fall to the navigation authority to do more. They have the equipment, and the authority to board boats, and would be acting not only to prevent pollution to their waterway, but also damage to their 'customer's (assuming it was licenced) boat.

[ditchcrawler]

How sad is it to see people ignoring things these days, its too easy to walk on by.

Ive come across many boats where the moorings become loose & will always attempt to retie.

If a boat was looking a little low in the water i would hope there would be a way of contacting the owner.

 

Would it not be sensible if people left mobile numbers next to the lic display in order theat they can be contacted in an emergency??

Its a bit like having I.C.E. on your mobile...

I don't think from what I have read that they had a lic, by which I assume you mean license to leave it next to.

[County4x4]

But then there could be the possibility that authorities could be seen to be responsible for their customers boats, leading to all sorts of problems of a litigious nature further down the line?

 

Andy

[soldthehouse]

But without equipment - manual pumps, or electric pump and battery - what kind of useful action could he have taken?

 

It seems to me that FTS makes a good point when he says that it should fall to the navigation authority to do more. They have the equipment, and the authority to board boats, and would be acting not only to prevent pollution to their waterway, but also damage to their 'customer's (assuming it was licenced) boat.

Is it not already within the juristiction of a licensing authority to take action, if not why not, seems cockeyed to me.Would have thought the enviroment agency would be proactive or am I living in a dream world

[ditchcrawler]

Stern tube greaser? - a bit disappointed with your lack of action, especially after all the help you received from other boaters when your had problems.

 

I would hope that someone would do something (other than stand back and take pictures) if my boat was suffering due to water ingress.

 

Leo

I wonder what sort of fine the OP would have received from the Cam Commissioners for pumping oil into the River Cam? £1000 may be. Also it looks as if the authorities were well aware of the situation if they stuck notices on saying its sinking.

[soldthehouse]

I wonder what sort of fine the OP would have received from the Cam Commissioners for pumping oil into the River Cam? £1000 may be. Also it looks as if the authorities were well aware of the situation if they stuck notices on saying its sinking.

Seems like the authorities are apethetic to the consequences of a boat sinking and would rather be reactive than proactive, fining someone seems futile its the enviromental damage alledgedly thats the problem and no amount of fines reverses the damage

Edited January 1, 2010 by soldthehouse

[PaddingtonBear]

A slightly different case but when I lived in Brighton a elderly neighbour was taken into hospital in an emergency. They lived alone and as far as anyone knew had no close relatives (well none had been near or by for at least 20 years). A near neighbour, a plumber, thought it would be sensible to check the water and gas systems and properly secure the property. I fitted new locks as no one had any spare keys and took home her cat. Almost as soon as we had finished we were accosted by someone claiming to be her son and were accused of stealing her valuables as well as influencing her with regards to the disposal of her assets (she didn't have much, her house was rented). The Police were involved and it all got a bit nasty but all was well in the end and I got the lady into a sheltered flat on her discharge. It shows however just how complicated things might get, leaving aside the problem that the owner might like their boat sunk

[mykaskin]

The problem arises from doing something that then causes damage. If someone had tried to pump out the boat, but some how made things worse, it then left it and it sank eventually anyway the owner may try to claim damages against that person.

 

Slightly different situation, but when the big summer floods happened we were stuck at Pershore. As the waters receeded a boat was half stuck on the bank. We could have tried to get it back in the water but if there was a problem we may have been liable. As it happened as the water receeded the bows were sufficiently boyant to keep the front doors out of the water just, but it was close to sinking even so.

 

I think people have to have some duty of care for their property. I wouldn't think of leaving a boat without first ensuring everything was just right, and having a regular check on it. If I was leaving a boat for more than a month I would get someone else to check it - even if it's just someone with a phone number that can call me if there is a problem.

 

I'm not sure where the insurance companies lay with regards to leaving a boat for a long time unattended - especially on a river.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[soldthehouse]

The problem arises from doing something that then causes damage. If someone had tried to pump out the boat, but some how made things worse, it then left it and it sank eventually anyway the owner may try to claim damages against that person.

 

Slightly different situation, but when the big summer floods happened we were stuck at Pershore. As the waters receeded a boat was half stuck on the bank. We could have tried to get it back in the water but if there was a problem we may have been liable. As it happened as the water receeded the bows were sufficiently boyant to keep the front doors out of the water just, but it was close to sinking even so.

 

I think people have to have some duty of care for their property. I wouldn't think of leaving a boat without first ensuring everything was just right, and having a regular check on it. If I was leaving a boat for more than a month I would get someone else to check it - even if it's just someone with a phone number that can call me if there is a problem.

 

I'm not sure where the insurance companies lay with regards to leaving a boat for a long time unattended - especially on a river.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

It seems that the litigious society that we find ourselves in today has a very prohibitive antisocial efect on us all, the best examples being no conkers in the playground or throwing snowballs, the worlds gone mad

[Chris Pink]

A slightly different case but when I lived in Brighton a elderly neighbour was taken into hospital in an emergency. They lived alone and as far as anyone knew had no close relatives (well none had been near or by for at least 20 years). A near neighbour, a plumber, thought it would be sensible to check the water and gas systems and properly secure the property. I fitted new locks as no one had any spare keys and took home her cat. Almost as soon as we had finished we were accosted by someone claiming to be her son and were accused of stealing her valuables as well as influencing her with regards to the disposal of her assets (she didn't have much, her house was rented). The Police were involved and it all got a bit nasty but all was well in the end and I got the lady into a sheltered flat on her discharge. It shows however just how complicated things might get, leaving aside the problem that the owner might like their boat sunk

 

There's nothing it that tale to make a philosophy of life from. We can all point to crap responses to what is obviously the right course of action.

 

In this case;

 

Yes, the EA should save a boat like this and bill the owner, after all they are charged with preventing pollution. The best way is pumps first rather than booms afterwards.

 

FTS should have rattled cages, tried to find the owner, knocked on boat hatches even if felt unable to do anything practical. I seem to remember he is on the list for an 'active community' mooring in Cambridge. Implies some kind of shared responsibility for the environment to me.

 

 

 

The problem arises from doing something that then causes damage. If someone had tried to pump out the boat, but some how made things worse, it then left it and it sank eventually anyway the owner may try to claim damages against that person.

 

Strikes me as (rather thin) excuse for doing nothing - you can apply this principle to any situation where one person needs the help of another.

[Smelly]

It's interesting that boatbot was contacted by BW to do something about his boat and hence did. I wonder whether EA do the same... Certainly in Mids area if a boat ended up in that state BW would pump it out and section it before they needed to get the boom out if the owner didn't sort their act out.

[mykaskin]

Strikes me as (rather thin) excuse for doing nothing - you can apply this principle to any situation where one person needs the help of another.

 

Call it what you will - I'll help anyone, but not without been invited to first (unless its normally expected, like holding open a door). Don't think I like living in a society which wants to lay blame at others feet, and gives them a legal tool for doing it. Lawyers have removed most of the common sense that used to prevail in this country.

 

Mike

[Chris Pink]

Don't think I like living in a society which wants to lay blame at others feet, and gives them a legal tool for doing it. Lawyers have removed most of the common sense that used to prevail in this country.

 

It is not lawyers that make for the ambience of self-first-and-only.

 

It is the refusal of people to take responsibility for the smooth running of their communities.

 

If you delegate responsibility to the 'proper authorities' then you can hardly moan if that disempowerment is not to your taste.

[PaddingtonBear]

I wasn't claiming that this example is my spirit guide, I have the Great Helmsman for that, merely using it as an example of what may go wrong. I also resent somewhat this constant criticism of FTS. I am the person who towed the Duck half across the system and it was really good fun and I was very glad to be a help. I am perfectly able to out grump anyone if it is necessary. I am usually pretty useless and have over time have had tremendous help with life's slings and arrows, the latest of which is Moomin and his electrickery......................invaluable. Some people just 'have it' and the majority, like me, seem to struggle so lets all be led by Carl's example in this New Year

Edited January 1, 2010 by PaddingtonBear

[Robbo]

Call it what you will - I'll help anyone, but not without been invited to first (unless its normally expected, like holding open a door). Don't think I like living in a society which wants to lay blame at others feet, and gives them a legal tool for doing it. Lawyers have removed most of the common sense that used to prevail in this country.

 

And of course there's the unwritten distance rule you need to follow when holding doors, here's a guide...

[soldthehouse]

It is not lawyers that make for the ambience of self-first-and-only.

 

It is the refusal of people to take responsibility for the smooth running of their communities.

 

If you delegate responsibility to the 'proper authorities' then you can hardly moan if that disempowerment is not to your taste.

Chris while I normally find myself in empathy with your opinions, we are forced to accept authority more and more and this is evident in the police who are now predators and not protectors. this was also voiced by another member who claimed to be a policeman in a thread a few months back, and sadly the more we fel redundant in being active in society the worse it will become.

[magpie patrick]

Just a thought for those who would/would not help. Ripple has an automatic bilge pump, but once it has failed you can only operate the bilge pump yourself if you are in possession of the ignition key, so a neighbour would need their own pump (or an ignition key) to help.

 

And while I generally try and be helpful, I do feel that I expect to survive by my own resources, and if others help me it is a bonus (one that generally earns them a beer at least). If things go wrong, i don't blame those who didn't help.

[Chris Pink]

we are forced to accept authority more and more

 

Only if you co-operate with such disempowerment.

 

To me to say something along the lines of "i won't investigate this sinking boat because the owner should be doing it and if it sinks the EA will clear it up" must make the abstract beast that is bureaucratic oppression rub its hands with glee and fund another tazer (logical working available on request).

 

And while I generally try and be helpful, I do feel that I expect to survive by my own resources, and if others help me it is a bonus (one that generally earns them a beer at least). If things go wrong, i don't blame those who didn't help.

 

Yes, wonderful, don't we all. Scenario: you live alone, you walk down the shops, slip in the ice, take a concussive knock to the head, taken to hospital. It rains, boat starts to take on water, people walk past saying to themselves "that owner should take more responsibility".

 

Maybe fairly low on the probability stakes but makes my point.

 

It is obvious, it was obvious, that something about this boat was not right. We all have the ability to do something. We should do that something.

 

Because without that spirit of co-operation we are doomed.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Chris Pink

[starman]

Only if you co-operate with such disempowerment.

 

To me to say something along the lines of "i won't investigate this sinking boat because the owner should be doing it and if it sinks the EA will clear it up" must make the abstract beast that is bureaucratic oppression rub its hands with glee and fund another tazer (logical working available on request).

 

 

 

Yes, wonderful, don't we all. Scenario: you live alone, you walk down the shops, slip in the ice, take a concussive knock to the head, taken to hospital. It rains, boat starts to take on water, people walk past saying to themselves "that owner should take more responsibility".

 

Maybe fairly low on the probability stakes but makes my point.

 

It is obvious, it was obvious, that something about this boat was not right. We all have the ability to do something. We should do that something.

 

Because without that spirit of co-operation we are doomed.

 

I think there's some rather pompous stuff going on in various posts. I can't think there's a single person who wouldn't help if they spotted a fellow boater or a boat in obvious and urgent trouble. Those who think otherwise ought to find a better example than this to support their depressing viewpoint.

This case is quite different: the boat in question was left unattended for a very long period and gradually settled lower in the water for all the obvious reasons - rain getting through the deck boards etc. At what point was the OP supposed to assume responsibility for the owner's pretty obvious lack of interest in his boat. And how long do they do this for? Indefinitely? Or do they give up at some point and let it sink?

Yes, people should (and possibly did) have hassled the Cam Commissioners about the boat but ultimately it appears the owner had simply walked away and left others to deal with the consequences. He effectively dumped it and deserves as much sympathy as those who dump cars or rubbish.

[Athy]

He may, of course, be either deceased or detained at Her Majesty's pleasure, in which case there wasn't much he could do about the condition of his boat.

[Guest]

He may, of course, be either deceased or detained at Her Majesty's pleasure, in which case there wasn't much he could do about the condition of his boat.

 

Actually there's a worse scenario than that......

[starman]

He may, of course, be either deceased or detained at Her Majesty's pleasure, in which case there wasn't much he could do about the condition of his boat.

 

If he's deceased they'll be a long time keeping his boat afloat -- and if he's detained at HM's pleasure I believe he's allowed a phone call or two.

[Chris Pink]

I think there's some rather pompous stuff going on in various posts. I can't think there's a single person who wouldn't help if they spotted a fellow boater or a boat in obvious and urgent trouble. Those who think otherwise ought to find a better example than this to support their depressing viewpoint.

This case is quite different: the boat in question was left unattended for a very long period and gradually settled lower in the water for all the obvious reasons - rain getting through the deck boards etc. At what point was the OP supposed to assume responsibility for the owner's pretty obvious lack of interest in his boat. And how long do they do this for? Indefinitely? Or do they give up at some point and let it sink?

Yes, people should (and possibly did) have hassled the Cam Commissioners about the boat but ultimately it appears the owner had simply walked away and left others to deal with the consequences. He effectively dumped it and deserves as much sympathy as those who dump cars or rubbish.

 

Psychic powers from outer space there Starman?

 

A lot of assumptions, most of them making judgements about another person without any sign of empathy whatsoever.

 

If you had contacted the Cam Commissioners and sent a message to the boat owner and you had had an indifferent or no reply then you have a point. Are we to assume you made these, pretty minimal, efforts to resolve the situation?

 

Now there is a boat on the bottom of the river - what good is that to you? to the wider boating community? to the environment?

 

Actually there is one, to you, upside to this outcome. It enables you to feel smug.