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Legal eagles please

Sir Nibble

By Sir Nibble
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Sir Nibble Veteran II

Sir Nibble

Posted
Posted

O lordy! It never rains but it pours.

Some of you will be familiar with the wonderful organised life led by my stepson who's child I am raising, (the cuckoo baby).

Well sorry to put this in general boating but I need to reach as wide an audience as possible before it gets transferred. I have now got the bailiffs coming to empty chez hamster for his unpaid fines!

Now Mrs Hamster has called them and got a recorded message saying I should fax them a utilities bill to "prove" that I live there. I will do that today but I have had experience of bailiffs hassling me for someone elses debt before and I am not confident that that will end the matter. Does anyone know the law here? What are my rights? If bailiffs arrive how do I convionce them they will find nothing of his to take without opening the door to them, if I open the door are they in?

Lordy lordy lordy, beer beer beer.

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fuzzyduck Experienced

fuzzyduck

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is this actual baliffs or a debt collection agency pretending to be baliffs?

 

If the latter a quick sod off will suffice. The former need more careful treatment, and id suggest googling the "consumer action group forums" and posting in their baliffs section.

Edited by fuzzyduck
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Sir Nibble Veteran II

Sir Nibble

Posted
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Is this actual baliffs or a debt collection agency pretending to be baliffs?

 

If the latter a quick sod off will suffice. The former need more careful treatment, and id suggest googling the "consumer action group forums" and posting in their baliffs section.

This is an unpaid fine and so they are court appointed bailiffs. Like I really need this!

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WJM Veteran

WJM

Posted
Posted

If the they do turn up, DO NOT, DO NOT, let them in! Once they are inside your premises you are stuffed. But if you don't 'allow' them in then they cannot smash the door down. They will be very forceful, very threatening, very aggressive - ignore. Talk to them (briefly) through the letterbox, but do not let them in. You might even use a video recorder if you have one, and tell them you are recording.

 

The big skill in being a bailiff is convincing people that you have powers that you do not. Tell them you will see them in court.

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PaddingtonBear Rising Star

PaddingtonBear

Posted
Posted

Try and contact the court(s) where the fines were levied, waste of time trying to phone the bailiffs, the no answer technique is all part of the intimidation. CAB useless unless you live in a big city. Courts will not like to be seen as using illegal methods to get monies, keep written records of all occurances, video very good idea, but most of all try to keep calm, this is not the middle ages although I am sure that the lower deck lawyers and Daily Mail readers on here will have many lurid tales. Do you have a Law Centre locally? they are especially skilled at this sort of thing as they are doing it all the time.

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David Schweizer Veteran II

David Schweizer

Posted
Posted (edited)

Snibble, I have sent you a PM with details of an Agency who can advise you on your legal rights.

Edited to add:- Do not open the door to balliffs unless they have a Court Warrant and are accompanied by a Police Officer.

Edited by David Schweizer
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sueb Veteran II

sueb

Posted
Posted (edited)
I just hope that the pro ID cards lobby are reading this - "If you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" what bollocks.

With an ID card Sir Nibble could prove he wasn't his stepson. Good luck

Sue

Edited by sueb
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tomsk Experienced

tomsk

Posted
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They are not your fines, you are who you are and not your stepson. I can't see how you are liable for his fines. Dont open the door unless a woodentop is in attendance and have your passport/ID handy. They probably wish to seize 'goods to the value' or make an inventory of your stepsons property as the final stage before actual seizure, they cannot seize your goods however they are liable to seize first and discuss the finer points later. DO NOT LET THEM IN.

 

I understand Gary Peacock has 'trade experience' so may be worth a PM.

 

Good Luck.

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mikevye Rising Star

mikevye

Posted
Posted
Many thanks to all for your input, especially for the PMs with advice or encouragement. I have just faxed a copy of my TV licence with a covering letter, now I just have to wait for the reasons why they are still coming to get me. MWAAAAHAHAHA!

 

I am suportive of your situation but a TV licence! you may of well sent a dry cleaning ticket,

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Christine Proficient

Christine

Posted
Posted

Right here you go Sir Nibble:

 

Which Court was it heard in?

 

Im a bit rusty but you are a bit better off with the Court Bailiff as you can talk to the admin person in the Court to ask what to do. Sometimes the Bailiffs carry the correct forms with them so you can make an application to vary the repayment schedule.

So ring up the Bailiff's dept and say that you are seeking to suspend the warrant and get a hearing either before the Magistrates to vary the fine repayment or the Deputy Distruct Judge to vary the order.

 

If it is a Civil Debt,what you need is one of these:N245

Print it off here:http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n245_0204.pdf

 

Son needs to fill it out and take it to the County Court.

 

If it is a Magistrates Court Fine he needs to get down to the Mags court (Im sure there is a form on line but I can't find it) and ask for a 'Means' form to ask that the Fine is paid by installments. He will need evidence of income or benefits. He can also ask for a Fee Exemption form if he is on low income or benefits which they also hold at the Courts.

 

As I say im a bit rusty but I hope this helps.

 

Love

Chris xx

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PaddingtonBear Rising Star

PaddingtonBear

Posted
Posted (edited)

The police would only attend if either it was considered that there might be a breach of the peace or if the bailiff was acting on behalf of either the Inland Revenue or Customs and Excise, If it is the former they have nothing to do UNLESS there is a breach, they are not there to support the bailiffs in their duties. If it is the latter the police will act in concert with the bailiffs.

Edited by PaddingtonBear
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Smelly Veteran

Smelly

Posted
Posted

Only to add to Christine's sage advice... I'm a bit rusty myself. I assume the f*c*wit (did I remember the appellation or were you more verbose?) is not co-operating.

 

There's something wrong. A non payment of a "fine" would be served by a warrant enforcement officer in the first instance. There would need to be a distraint order by the Mag's court; those are rare creatures; it's cheaper to substitute with Community Service or a weekend in the local police station's cells. Parking fines or certain fixed penalty notices will fall straight into civil recovery procedures and you'll need that N245, although as you're not the defendant it might be a waste of court fees.

 

A bailiff enforcing a distraint order should be able to provide a copy of the order and has the discretion to send the file back to the officer who ordered the recovery.

 

The distraint order won't be against your premises per se, but against your son and said bailiffs will be acting on the reaonable knowledge that he's still living there. Burden of proof is on them to show that he owns the goods. Get your invoices together and make sure there's a brolly behind the door in case they come knocking in inclement weather.

 

Already been said but worth repeating... Don't let them through the door, once they've served a "walking possession" notice they don't need your authority to enter, just make good any damage afterward.

 

More by PM.

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Sir Nibble Veteran II

Sir Nibble

Posted
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Posted
Paying it might make them go away

Cheers! Pay your boat licence whilst I'm at it shall I?

 

Right here you go Sir Nibble:

 

Which Court was it heard in?

 

Im a bit rusty but you are a bit better off with the Court Bailiff as you can talk to the admin person in the Court to ask what to do. Sometimes the Bailiffs carry the correct forms with them so you can make an application to vary the repayment schedule.

So ring up the Bailiff's dept and say that you are seeking to suspend the warrant and get a hearing either before the Magistrates to vary the fine repayment or the Deputy Distruct Judge to vary the order.

 

If it is a Civil Debt,what you need is one of these:N245

Print it off here:http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n245_0204.pdf

 

Son needs to fill it out and take it to the County Court.

 

If it is a Magistrates Court Fine he needs to get down to the Mags court (Im sure there is a form on line but I can't find it) and ask for a 'Means' form to ask that the Fine is paid by installments. He will need evidence of income or benefits. He can also ask for a Fee Exemption form if he is on low income or benefits which they also hold at the Courts.

 

As I say im a bit rusty but I hope this helps.

 

Love

Chris xx

Thanks chris, I don't have the details to hand, I left it on my desk at work. Phukwit stepson will deal with this in his usual way, ignore it until he's in custody for something else then complain about harrassment. All I want to do is stop it being my problem.

 

Only to add to Christine's sage advice... I'm a bit rusty myself. I assume the f*c*wit (did I remember the appellation or were you more verbose?) is not co-operating.

 

There's something wrong. A non payment of a "fine" would be served by a warrant enforcement officer in the first instance. There would need to be a distraint order by the Mag's court; those are rare creatures; it's cheaper to substitute with Community Service or a weekend in the local police station's cells. Parking fines or certain fixed penalty notices will fall straight into civil recovery procedures and you'll need that N245, although as you're not the defendant it might be a waste of court fees.

 

A bailiff enforcing a distraint order should be able to provide a copy of the order and has the discretion to send the file back to the officer who ordered the recovery.

 

The distraint order won't be against your premises per se, but against your son and said bailiffs will be acting on the reaonable knowledge that he's still living there. Burden of proof is on them to show that he owns the goods. Get your invoices together and make sure there's a brolly behind the door in case they come knocking in inclement weather.

 

Already been said but worth repeating... Don't let them through the door, once they've served a "walking possession" notice they don't need your authority to enter, just make good any damage afterward.

 

More by PM.

Thanks a million Smelly, even PMing me his phone number! How cool is that?

You've all been brilliant people.

Mods, please feel free to get this out of general boating, it's been seen by everyone who can help, and boy have they pitched in.

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