Airlink Isolating transformer

[boots]

Hi,

 

we are in the process of buying our first boat (arranging survey at the mo), so have no experience in this area.....

 

Assuming we get her, she will be berthed in a marina and will have access to shoreline. The boat is fitted with a shoreline, but no form of galvanic isolation.

 

Having read these forums, was planning on buying one of these isolating transformers:-

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

 

since the cost seems reasonable....

 

However, having mentioned this to a surveyor - he thought that isolating transformers were more typically in the range o £500/600+ which is obviously a lot more expensive that this one (£210).

 

Am I missing something? Has anyone tried one of these airlink transformers?

 

boots

[bottle]

Hi Boots,

 

Have you searched the forum for airlink, it has been mentioned before I am sure, there may be some info in there somewhere.

 

Otherwise I am sure someone will pop in and know.

[number four]

Hi,

 

we are in the process of buying our first boat (arranging survey at the mo), so have no experience in this area.....

 

Assuming we get her, she will be berthed in a marina and will have access to shoreline. The boat is fitted with a shoreline, but no form of galvanic isolation.

 

Having read these forums, was planning on buying one of these isolating transformers:-

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

 

since the cost seems reasonable....

 

However, having mentioned this to a surveyor - he thought that isolating transformers were more typically in the range o £500/600+ which is obviously a lot more expensive that this one (£210).

 

Am I missing something? Has anyone tried one of these airlink transformers?

 

boots

 

not that it answers your question

but i will be intrested in answers

as its on my shoping list for new boat.

[Albion]

Hi,

 

we are in the process of buying our first boat (arranging survey at the mo), so have no experience in this area.....

 

Assuming we get her, she will be berthed in a marina and will have access to shoreline. The boat is fitted with a shoreline, but no form of galvanic isolation.

 

Having read these forums, was planning on buying one of these isolating transformers:-

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

 

since the cost seems reasonable....

 

However, having mentioned this to a surveyor - he thought that isolating transformers were more typically in the range o £500/600+ which is obviously a lot more expensive that this one (£210).

 

Am I missing something? Has anyone tried one of these airlink transformers?

 

boots

 

Have a word with Idleness who has used one and prefers them to the more famous other brands IIRC.

Roger

[Robbo]

I too have recently got one of these Airlink transformers due to recommendations on this site but have yet to fit it so can't really help you there. They (mine didn't) don't come with instructions, but here they are... http://www.airlinktransformers.com/technic...ting.asp?data=2. There is no holes for cables so you'll need to make your own (which is good for a tidy installation!), you'll need some cable glands aswell but B&Q sell these.

 

Quick edit to say after tax it's around £260 inc. delivery, not £210.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Robbo

[GUMPY]

I have the original prototype of these, been using it since 2006, in fact I was the person that pushed them into making them.

DO NOT get a victron one as they are wired incorrectly, we had a fire on our moorings last week in one.

SO if you want to spend 5-600 get one of the others fine, me I would go for the airlink again and spend the saved cash on something else

 

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

is the one to go for.

Some of the early ones have a ceramic screen so no earth wire to connect.

One caveat is that some supplies are not man enough to allow the transformer to switch on so you do need a supply rated at 10amps.

 

No financial connection just a customer.

[Albion]

I have the original prototype of these, been using it since 2006, in fact I was the person that pushed them into making them.

DO NOT get a victron one as they are wired incorrectly, we had a fire on our moorings last week in one.

SO if you want to spend 5-600 get one of the others fine, me I would go for the airlink again and spend the saved cash on something else

 

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

is the one to go for.

Some of the early ones have a ceramic screen so no earth wire to connect.

One caveat is that some supplies are not man enough to allow the transformer to switch on so you do need a supply rated at 10amps.

 

No financial connection just a customer.

 

No good for French moorings then when the supply can be 2A or 4A? Does the Airlink do a soft start? Oops, can't be a soft start at 10A. Shall be fitting my fourth Victron soon, no problems so far

Roger

[Nickhlx]

I have the original prototype of these, been using it since 2006, in fact I was the person that pushed them into making them.

DO NOT get a victron one as they are wired incorrectly, we had a fire on our moorings last week in one.

SO if you want to spend 5-600 get one of the others fine, me I would go for the airlink again and spend the saved cash on something else

 

 

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

is the one to go for.

Some of the early ones have a ceramic screen so no earth wire to connect.

One caveat is that some supplies are not man enough to allow the transformer to switch on so you do need a supply rated at 10amps.

 

No financial connection just a customer.

 

This one seems to output 120V - the boat is 230 V - surely the one to go for would be a 230V output model ?

i.e. the WP 3230 http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

 

or are you just checking we are all awake and keeping up :lol:

 

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

I must admit that we need to put either a GI or transformer in place, but I have shied away from the transformer route because of cost.

 

When this got posted, I thought "that looks a good solution, I might have some of that!".

 

Then I looked at the size.

 

Having struggled to find space for just a single extra 110Ah battery, I have no idea where I could house a "cuboid" that is around a foot in two directions, and considerably more in the third.

 

Looking at the thing, is it worth putting it on long cables, so that in a "needs must" situation it could also be deployed as a mud-weight ?

[Nickhlx]

I must admit that we need to put either a GI or transformer in place, but I have shied away from the transformer route because of cost.

 

When this got posted, I thought "that looks a good solution, I might have some of that!".

 

Then I looked at the size.

 

Having struggled to find space for just a single extra 110Ah battery, I have no idea where I could house a "cuboid" that is around a foot in two directions, and considerably more in the third.

 

Looking at the thing, is it worth putting it on long cables, so that in a "needs must" situation it could also be deployed as a mud-weight ?

 

I make it about a cubic foot too - well, a "slightly tall" cubic foot ! Surely you have room for that somewhere in the engine bay ? Lead/cable lengths are not an issue at 230 V

 

Nick

Edited November 14, 2009 by Nickhlx

[colin stone]

No good for French moorings then when the supply can be 2A or 4A? Does the Airlink do a soft start? Oops, can't be a soft start at 10A. Shall be fitting my fourth Victron soon, no problems so far

Roger

 

I've got a 3.6KVA (16A) IT from Jemelec for approx £170 delivered to Oxford on a Good Friday!! It was popping a 6A breaker on switch on, so I contacted Airlink as the WP3230 has a "soft starter" fitted. Airlink use a solid state NTC - MS35 5RO25 and used to sell them off their website but no longer appear to be there. I got one from Rhopointcomponents for under £6 all in. Since fitting no more popping at 6A shore breaker, but I have not tried on a smaller breaker yet.

[MoominPapa]

I must admit that we need to put either a GI or transformer in place, but I have shied away from the transformer route because of cost.

 

When this got posted, I thought "that looks a good solution, I might have some of that!".

 

Then I looked at the size.

 

Having struggled to find space for just a single extra 110Ah battery, I have no idea where I could house a "cuboid" that is around a foot in two directions, and considerably more in the third.

 

Looking at the thing, is it worth putting it on long cables, so that in a "needs must" situation it could also be deployed as a mud-weight ?

Even if you can find an out of the way place to keep it, you have the problem that a fault in the connection from the input socket to the transformer primary can make the hull live'n dangerous, so you don't want that to be a long wire running in out-of the-way places. Thinking about it, the same is true of the shore line: of all the 240v wiring on a boat, that's probably the most likely to get damaged and short to the hull. Someone may tread on it, or it could fall down between the hull and the piling and get crushed. With a transformer installed on the boat, there's no protection against that sort of fault. Best to install the transformer on the bank, then, which solves the space problem.

 

MP.

[GUMPY]

or are you just checking we are all awake and keeping up :lol:

Should have been this one

http://www.airlinktransformers.com/transfo...transformer.asp

Thats what you get when using a mobile fone to reply!

They do have a soft start its not a sophisticated as the victron one but then the airlink transformer is safe the victron one is NOT. If the live shorts to the case on the victron the boat will go live, no argument that's fact.

We had one on the moorings last week where the internal crimps had not been made properly and the thing caught fire it could easily have made the boat live, Victron did agree to replace it though.

 

One other point, the ideal place for a transformer is NOT on the boat but at the supply which is where mine is hence the call for a waterproof case.

 

All the above points are FACT there is no argument to be had.

 

Thanks for the reply re 6A breakers Colin I was erring on the conservative side with 10A.

 

 

J

[ditchcrawler]

One other point, the ideal place for a transformer is NOT on the boat but at the supply which is where mine is hence the call for a waterproof case.

I have seen one outside on the bank chained to a tree on the moorings feeding a boat.

[Albion]

One other point, the ideal place for a transformer is NOT on the boat but at the supply which is where mine is hence the call for a waterproof case.

 

All the above points are FACT there is no argument to be had.

 

And if you're moving from mooring to mooring on the French system, for example, would you lug it around loose and rig up at each mooring location or would you have it fitted in the boat as a next best compromise?

In the case of a permanent home mooring, such as yours, then a shore based IT is easily do-able and no phaff but it's not so convenient on a variable mooring.

Roger

[GUMPY]

And if you're moving from mooring to mooring on the French system, for example, would you lug it around loose and rig up at each mooring location or would you have it fitted in the boat as a next best compromise?

In the case of a permanent home mooring, such as yours, then a shore based IT is easily do-able and no phaff but it's not so convenient on a variable mooring.

Roger

 

I like to think it would just become part of the mooring up routine.

Having said that I don't bother to take the one from Parglena with me as we are totally self contained as regards power, that and I can only thing of two places where I could have plugged in.

Edited November 15, 2009 by idleness

[Albion]

I like to think it would just become part of the mooring up routine.

Having said that I don't bother to take the one from Parglena with me as we are totally self contained as regards power, that and I can only thing of two places where I could have plugged in.

 

Yep, I agree it's not really a problem here in the UK but it's a different matter in France. There I shall be plugging in at many and various places (although the free, local village ones are a dwindling resource). I've also plugged in at one village where there were only 2A available and the only saviour there was the optional accessory for the Victron, the remote control panel. There is a very useful feature on that panel that allows you to limit your incoming shore power current and it was only using that feature and reducing in stages to about 2A that allowed me to have any shore power without tripping the shore trip. That is a feature that persuades me to stick with a Victron despite the potential of a wire breaking loose in the Victron to make the case and the boat live. I've survived ownership of 3 Victrons so far and I've always fancied Russian Roulette (only joking)

Roger

[Neil TNC]

No good for French moorings then when the supply can be 2A or 4A? Does the Airlink do a soft start? Oops, can't be a soft start at 10A. Shall be fitting my fourth Victron soon, no problems so far

Roger

 

Ah Victron, that wonderfull blue kit we all love so much, we still buy it and then end up modifying

 

Let's just say that mine (an early one without soft start, now with soft start, provided FOC by Airlink) will start up OK from a WI lighting circuit

Maurice A will be having another one along with Mr Gibbo's wonderment.

Aparently Smart stuff has spread to Ireland already, as "The Goggin" had a Smart Guage/Bank fitted to his mighty barge.

[MoominPapa]

Neil Arlidge

NB Earnest / Barge Maurice A - on the drawing board

TNC...evolving

 

MP.

[Albion]

Ah Victron, that wonderfull blue kit we all love so much, we still buy it and then end up modifying

 

Let's just say that mine (an early one without soft start, now with soft start, provided FOC by Airlink) will start up OK from a WI lighting circuit

Maurice A will be having another one along with Mr Gibbo's wonderment.

Aparently Smart stuff has spread to Ireland already, as "The Goggin" had a Smart Guage/Bank fitted to his mighty barge.

 

Ahh, how nice to see you back in the land of the living Mr Arlidge....................it's been such a long time..............missing you already

Roger

[colin stone]

I've also plugged in at one village where there were only 2A available and the only saviour there was the optional accessory for the Victron, the remote control panel.

Roger

 

The Victron shore power limiter does not prevent the transformer inrush surge, which pops the breaker, as the Victron kit is after the IT.

 

In my own vessel the IT is mounted on a non conductive base and surrounded by a non conducting box so none of it touches the hull steel The only items that touch the interior of the vessel is the outer sheath of the arctic cable and the cable from the shore power inlet to the IT is also in a non conducting sleeve. Effectively achieving the same result as the IT being on the bank, but less hassle when I move around.

[Neil TNC]

Ahh, how nice to see you back in the land of the living Mr Arlidge....................it's been such a long time..............missing you already

Roger

 

If I did not know you better, I would think that an insult

[MoominPapa]

In my own vessel the IT is mounted on a non conductive base and surrounded by a non conducting box so none of it touches the hull steel The only items that touch the interior of the vessel is the outer sheath of the arctic cable and the cable from the shore power inlet to the IT is also in a non conducting sleeve. Effectively achieving the same result as the IT being on the bank, but less hassle when I move around.

That doesn't protect you in my scenario that the shore-line drops between the boat and the bank and then gets crushed as the boat moves, rendering the hull live. That seems a fairly realistic failure mode and one which is handled by a direct or GA earth bond, or a transformer on the bank, but not by a transformer on the boat.

 

MP.

Edited November 15, 2009 by MoominPapa

[Albion]

The Victron shore power limiter does not prevent the transformer inrush surge, which pops the breaker, as the Victron kit is after the IT.

 

In my own vessel the IT is mounted on a non conductive base and surrounded by a non conducting box so none of it touches the hull steel The only items that touch the interior of the vessel is the outer sheath of the arctic cable and the cable from the shore power inlet to the IT is also in a non conducting sleeve. Effectively achieving the same result as the IT being on the bank, but less hassle when I move around.

 

Edited 'cos I was talking rubbish. The controller is on the Victron inverter/charger, achieving the same function but later down the line. If the later demand is reduced then the IT current is reduced and so you avoid tripping the shore power.

Roger

Edited November 15, 2009 by Albion

[Robbo]

That doesn't protect you in my scenario that the shore-line drops between the boat and the bank and then gets crushed as the boat moves, rendering the hull live. That seems a fairly realistic failure mode and one which is handled by a direct or GA earth bond, or a transformer on the bank, but not by a transformer on the boat.

 

Most IT's would sprout legs if left onshore.

 

Thinking here (and I no expert) but wouldn't you want your circuit breakers to be as close (in cable length terms) to your IT as possible? If your scenario happened (and the IT is on shore) the boats circuit breakers may trip but the hull will still be live?

Edited November 15, 2009 by Robbo