What does it take to get the message over

[Keeping Up]

No, you can ride gates with a fender.

Normally the "draw" of the bottom paddles pulls the boat forwards so this will happen naturally. It is still possible to get caught out sometimes, though, as we found out last year at Hurlestone where one of the locks sends the boat very rapidly back towards the top end when you open the bottom paddles. I can only assume it is a similar effect to the way that a ground paddle will "pull" the boat towards it when going up. We were lucky, we spotted it in time (just as the water started to enter the well-deck through the drain holes) so no damage was done, but it could easily have been otherwise. That was my first "cilling" in an estimated 15,000 locks, I hope it's the last.

[Matthew Dowson]

We all have to pay attention don't we, its so easy to let your mind wander at a lock, familiarity can lull us or an onlooker asks you a question, but remember we're playing with industrial machinery from 200 years ago in many cases.

[magpie patrick]

We all have to pay attention don't we, its so easy to let your mind wander at a lock, familiarity can lull us or an onlooker asks you a question, but remember we're playing with industrial machinery from 200 years ago in many cases.

 

At the risk of jinxing myself I've never cilled a boat BUT I have hung Ripple up by the front fender going down the Marsden Flight. Those are supervised and for reasons I can't remember I was talking to the BW bod working the lock and Ripple was probably four or five feet down when I got on. First thing I noticed was that tha auto bilge pump was operating, then I looked down the boat and the bow was up. the fender had caught on a rivet in the gate while I was talking to the BW bod... in fairness, when I shouted "refill the lock" the guy broke the record for the 70 foot sprint!

[GUMPY]

A while ago I had some metal wrapped round the prop and as it was Christmas there were no dry docks available in which to get it off.

It didn't stop the boat moving just made it very slow, so at Stoke Bruene Top we roped the stern back against the top gates plus the bow to both sides and then let most of the water out of the lock. I then climbed down onto the cill with a set of cutters and removed the steel banding. Refilled the lock and away we went.

I did have someone with me helping that had done it before at that lock, and it was before the world went H&S mad.

So sometimes its helpful getting the stern hung up on the cill

Edited September 29, 2009 by idleness

[Guest]

Agreed and kiss the cill on the way up

 

Only thing I would say Richard re this is that doing this on the L&L on a 60ft boat in a short lock does often mean water (often in significant amounts) pours onto and into the front cockpit from leaking top gates.

 

Most pours out through the drains but often, enough poured on for me as an inexperienced boater to be concerned about.

 

Oh and SWMBO gets very wet......

[RichardH]

Only thing I would say Richard re this is that doing this on the L&L on a 60ft boat in a short lock does often mean water (often in significant amounts) pours onto and into the front cockpit from leaking top gates.

 

Most pours out through the drains but often, enough poured on for me as an inexperienced boater to be concerned about.

 

Oh and SWMBO gets very wet......

 

I can't disagree it can be a very fine balancing act. Golden rule is always close the front doors when ascending.

[Keeping Up]

Coming back up through Todmorden this summer, which has an electric guillotine for a bottom gate so that with a longish boat you HAVE to stay close to the cill as the gate descends behind you, I was sufficiently worried by the quantity of water coming over the top gates that I had decided to start very early the next morning by draining a foot of water off the pound above the lock. The volume of water over the gates was enough to fill the (broad) lock in about 10 minutes, and was shooting out about 10 feet into the lock so even with the front doors closed (and sealed up, I was taking no chances) the front cockpit would have filled before I could have shut the bottom guillotine.

 

In the event there was no need to drain the pound, it had dropped enough overnight that although it still cascaded into the well-deck, the quantity was much less and ran away through the drain holes without more than an inch or so of water collecting in the well.

[loner]

Our first rental experience was through Foxton Locks. We had been given a 5 minute training???? by Canaltime of how to operate the boat. The Foxton lock keeper was great and helps us through. It all looks so simple but realy isn't. We have had loads of experience with locks but not manual ones. I saw a lady crushed in one on the Mississippi when she feel and was caught between a barge and the wall. She and her mate were both drunk. A common occurance in the states unfortunately. I think everyone should take a handling course before renting a boat. That might negatively effect the rental business though.

[Tillerpin]

It's easy to be complacent about locks and believe that only hire boats or inexperienced crew are likely to get things wrong. However in July, we were descending Stockton locks and were sharing one of the locks with another boat. I usually try to keep the boat in the middle of the lock and so I was a bit surprised when the boat beside us was put in reverse and was slowly moving back behind us. All of a sudden the chap shouted that his boat was caught on the cill. This was very alarming as I couldn't do much to help. After the emergency was over, he turned to me and said "There, that's what can happen with six years' boating experience. It's never happened to me before". So we moved to the next lock down and whilst in it, my brother in law came up to ask me what had happened, so I was explaining to him that the other boat had gone too far back and got caught on the cill. Suddenly my brother in law noticed that the boat was again reversing and was just about to repeat the experience and shouted to the chap "Quick ! Stop! You're too far back". We were glad to get to the bottom of the flight without further incident. I wondered afterwards if the man had a problem with concentrating.

 

What was quite a shock though was when I found out later that his little granddaughter was sitting at the front of the boat doing some colouring, when the bow was pointing downwards.

[Guest]

Perhaps just one last thought...

 

Is there any form of memoriam at the lock concerned???

 

We've passed this point four times in recent years and noticed nothing of significance marking this tragedy - zilch at the lock itself.

 

Could be wrong but I have to say I do think there should be.........

[Chertsey]

Perhaps just one last thought...

 

Is there any form of memoriam at the lock concerned???

 

We've passed this point four times in recent years and noticed nothing of significance marking this tragedy - zilch at the lock itself.

 

Could be wrong but I have to say I do think there should be.........

Oh please no, we can do without that sort of mawkishness on the canals.

[Guest]

Oh please no, we can do without that sort of mawkishness on the canals.

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I really have no idea where you are coming from.

 

Given a death on the canals is a pretty rare occurrence I can't see what harm would be done by commemorating the death of four people in a single incident.

 

I've no interest in engaging in a public debate about this but more than happy to take to PM if you feel really so strongly opposed.

[ditchcrawler]

It would help if the cill signs, on the gates, were the other end of the locks. I don't need to be reminded about the 'cill' when I am going up!

BW stupidity reigns

Sue

I'll drink to that

[mayalld]

Perhaps just one last thought...

 

Is there any form of memoriam at the lock concerned???

 

We've passed this point four times in recent years and noticed nothing of significance marking this tragedy - zilch at the lock itself.

 

Could be wrong but I have to say I do think there should be.........

 

No there shouldn't.

[Guest]

So to get this back on topic (down to me taking it off)-

 

One of the things that I as a casual boater learnt very quickly was that whilst it pays to be nice and pleasant to people (in this case your fellow lock sharers) it is very easy to get engrossed in a conversation with the other skipper and lose concentration with what your boat is doing and where it is in the lock.

 

I quickly learnt when going down you need to hold off the 'in lock banter' until you were sure the boat was clear of all 'snagging' hazards.

 

Even then you still need to be vigilant.

 

No doubt with more experience it gets easier to do both.

Edited September 30, 2009 by MJG

[mayalld]

Our first rental experience was through Foxton Locks. We had been given a 5 minute training???? by Canaltime of how to operate the boat. The Foxton lock keeper was great and helps us through. It all looks so simple but realy isn't.

 

Actually it really is simple.

 

Many of the problems of operating locks come from people attempting to learn by rote what to do with a lock.

 

If people concentrated instead on actually understanding a lock and how it works, they would be able to decide a safe course of action for themselves.

[koukouvagia]

Our first rental experience was through Foxton Locks. We had been given a 5 minute training???? by Canaltime of how to operate the boat. The Foxton lock keeper was great and helps us through.

 

 

At Foxton the paddles do need a bit of thought and the lock-keeper intones the refrain “red before white and you’ll be alright”. This bit of rote learning is OK providing you open the correct red paddle. I have never seen a BW employee run so fast as when a boater (no, not a hirer), who clearly didn’t understand how the Foxton flight works, opened the wrong red paddle.

BTW Canaltime at Market Harborough have a formal agreement with BW for the lockies at Foxton to train new hirers in the workings of the flight, so they can skip that part of the instruction. I was moored in MH in the summer and had the opportunity to observe and hear what the Canaltime people told the hirers. I thought their advice was spot on and each boat had at least an hour’s worth of training.

[Chertsey]

You are of course entitled to your opinion but I really have no idea where you are coming from.

 

Given a death on the canals is a pretty rare occurrence I can't see what harm would be done by commemorating the death of four people in a single incident.

 

I've no interest in engaging in a public debate about this but more than happy to take to PM if you feel really so strongly opposed.

No, I've nothing to add. But if I did I would be happy to say it publicly.

Edited September 30, 2009 by WarriorWoman

[Ange]

One of the biggest risks which boaters who have only done narrow locks when they hit a broad lock is the risk associated with being diagonal and wedging on the uneven stonework - I can't recall it ever being discussed on the forum.

 

I've got to agree with this. The nearest we've seen to disaster was when a hire boat going down the Wigan flight got wedged diagonally in the lock. The boat hung at the front to the point where the water was starting to flood the rear deck. The lady steering was panicking big time, but couldn't access either lock ladder because of the position of the boat. Her partner, operating the locks, reacted quickly and closed the bottom paddles and opened the top paddles to refloat the boat. As it came up it gradually tipped sideways to an alarming angle, still wedged at the front, at which point the lady climbed on the roof (on Dave's advice as this seemed the safest place to be). Fortunately the boat righted itself, she disappeared indoors when they exited the lock and I'd be very surprised if she goes on a boating holiday again.

 

When we're on our own in broad locks I watch very carefully nowadays to make sure we don't get stuck like that.

[LoneWolf]

Perhaps just one last thought...

 

Is there any form of memoriam at the lock concerned???

 

We've passed this point four times in recent years and noticed nothing of significance marking this tragedy - zilch at the lock itself.

 

Could be wrong but I have to say I do think there should be.........

 

 

Funnily enough I was talking about this incident with the person i came up Johnson's Hill with today & she said there was a memorial thing. I shall try & remember to look out for it to confirm

 

The reason we were talking about it was because I had just pointed out that her front fender had slipped into the gap between the gates & the beam.

Threads like this help keep me vigilant lockside

[Ange]

Threads like this help keep me vigilant lockside

 

You are so right - on all the hire holidays we went on I was blissfully unaware of my responsibilities when I wielded my windlass, often chatting happily to other boaters and gongoozlers and paying no attention to the boat in the lock

 

I do wonder now if I've gone too far the other way, especially as the boat is my home with my wordly possessions on it - I can never relax until it's safe and watch it like a hawk.

[Guest]

Funnily enough I was talking about this incident with the person i came up Johnson's Hill with today & she said there was a memorial thing. I shall try & remember to look out for it to confirm

 

Cheers, I would be interested if there was, we noticed nothing as we passed through though.

[LoneWolf]

You are so right - on all the hire holidays we went on I was blissfully unaware of my responsibilities when I wielded my windlass, often chatting happily to other boaters and gongoozlers and paying no attention to the boat in the lock

 

I do wonder now if I've gone too far the other way, especially as the boat is my home with my wordly possessions on it - I can never relax until it's safe and watch it like a hawk.

 

exactly the same for me. I find it surprisingly tiring sometimes chatting to gongoozlers when concentrating on the boat. I love a good lockside chat & dont like to seem rude but I'm not taking my eye off it

[mayalld]

Cheers, I would be interested if there was, we noticed nothing as we passed through though.

 

Why would you be interested?

 

What on earth is the obsession with erecting memorials anywhere where an accident has taken place?

[Naughty Cal]

Why would you be interested?

 

What on earth is the obsession with erecting memorials anywhere where an accident has taken place?

 

To remember those whose life has been lost.