Jam Ole Run 2010

[Hairy-Neil]

Arguably it was the Willow Wren crews who actually worked harder as they sometimes did a coal trip south and a back load of wheat in 10 days.

 

Paul H

 

I read somewhere that Leslie Morton once said it would be more profitable for Willow Wren to bring the empty boats back from Croxley on a lorry......

 

I'll dig out the Braunston log book later and post some of the trip details/timings.

[David Schweizer]

I read somewhere that Leslie Morton once said it would be more profitable for Willow Wren to bring the empty boats back from Croxley on a lorry......

 

I'll dig out the Braunston log book later and post some of the trip details/timings.

He said it frequently, he also used to talk about a scheme where he would hire the boats to the Captains and contract them to take single runs for which they were payed, the boats would then be returned empty to collect the next load, and because the captain was self employed, he was eligible to claim the dole for the week when he had no payed work.

Edited September 24, 2009 by David Schweizer

[Derek R.]

I read somewhere that Leslie Morton once said it would be more profitable for Willow Wren to bring the empty boats back from Croxley on a lorry......

(snip)

 

The same has been said about running light Locomotives over Network Rail's lines - cheaper on a lorry.

 

He said it frequently, he also used to talk about a scheme where he would hire the boats to the Captains and contract them to take single runs for which they were payed, the boats would then be returned empty to collect the next load, and because the captain was self employed, he was eligible to claim the dole for the week when he had no payed work.

 

I do not know the requirements that needed to be fulfilled at that time, but later in 1980, dole could only be collected after six weeks of unemployment, I neither know if Lesley Morton's comments were tongue in cheek to wind up certain factions, but it does sound like they might have been. The sums may have been done and possibly proven to be more 'economical', but the consequences for crews may not have been seriously considered - even considered at all - does anyone know?

 

Ask Jackanory?

 

Derek

[mayalld]

Tarporley Charter or not, those who go as 'passengers' must be aware of the pace that will be set, with 4am starts and 10pm tying up. Stop for a beer and you will be left behind and cease to be part of the Jam'Ole run and become just another boat cruising southwards (or northwards)

 

For many of the participants it is a challenge of endurance on both crew and boats in striving to emulate the old methods and pace of the working boat days. Although no cargo is carried, the objective is considered quite seriously by some and I suppose too many different boats could defuse the exercise.

 

I seem to remember that in fairly recent years, this event gained something of a poor reputation from non-participants, due to the pace that was set.

 

There were complaints about running too fast, failing to slow for moored boats, jumping queues for locks and the like.

 

Those participating would do well to remember that there are now other waterways users, and that those waterways users are not a lesser breed, and that those playing at being working boats do not have a right to behave badly in recreating the run.

[furnessvale]

I seem to remember that in fairly recent years, this event gained something of a poor reputation from non-participants, due to the pace that was set.

 

There were complaints about running too fast, failing to slow for moored boats, jumping queues for locks and the like.

 

Those participating would do well to remember that there are now other waterways users, and that those waterways users are not a lesser breed, and that those playing at being working boats do not have a right to behave badly in recreating the run.

 

Agreed. I have grave misgivings about some of the actions of participants in this run which can give all of us a bad name. I once passed a moored boat approaching Braunston for the rally and the occupier popped his head out saying "these working boats can go slow then".

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[magpie patrick]

Tom, may I suggest you follow the example of the BCN challenge, where the were a number of rules such as not breaking the speed limit, not creating a breaking wash, and not jumping queues as locks. In the notes for that event, it was made clear that there were observers, who could be on participating boats, on non-participating boats, or on the bank, and would not be identifiable BUT would report any breach of rules.

 

I appreciate that yours isn't a competition, but you could have a similar system with any persistent offender being asked to leave the run and go home. the chances are you will have little trouble as such a system will tend to put off those who would be guilty of reckless bravado from taking part.

 

PS, I still like these things to happen, but they need to recognise the modern context

[Derek R.]

This crops up every year. We have a contributor from; Manchester; Bath; and the Peak Forest. If any of those folk have been personally disadvantaged in any way by such a run, perhaps their complaints can be directed to the alleged miscreants.

Would any who are actually, or might be affected by the passing of a train of boats like to speak up? There will always be some.

 

In '83 we were headed for Wigan and the IWA National. Our path was a slow three month cruise taking in the Peak Forest and Ashton canals. At the top of Marple we were hailed and vociferously complained to by a resident boater (we also lived afloat at that time) in that we were using water that they needed to keep afloat. 'Too many boats going to the National' was the cry.

 

There are some I will not boat with, and whose practices I do not condone. This is not a moan about whingers, nor a voice for letting 'em rip as some might like to in recreating what they believe was standard practice years ago. But it does seem that whenever something from the past turns up in the garden, out come the guns - it's hunting season. Be it traction engines, old lorries, old buses, old motorbikes with speeds that 'hold up' the modern traffic - something that gives off a little smoke, picking Blackberries from a hedgerow "you know that's stealing" - if anything is certain, our 'nanny state' has taught us how to moan.

 

There will be boats passing some at early hours and late. It's once every other year - so far - in which lock working efficiency comes to the fore. Genuine problems for others will, I am sure, be few and far between - that much is appreciated by the organisers, and by most who participate. I will not be, it's just not something that attracts me. Though if I were in the vicinity, I would gladly set a lock or three and help them through for the sake of remembering the crews that lived the life, and just a little of what was once the canal's reason for being.

 

Derek

[Chris Pink]

Worth bearing in mind in the (good ol') days queuing at locks would also happen. The crew of the run boats, by helping the preceding boats through, will mimic that delay.

 

In my opinion if anyone moored complains about the speed of a loaded working boat or pair coming past then they shouldn't be on the canal.

 

especially as it is a very rare event.

[Roger t' Bodger]

Tom, may I suggest you follow the example of the BCN challenge, where the were a number of rules such as not breaking the speed limit, not creating a breaking wash, and not jumping queues as locks. In the notes for that event, it was made clear that there were observers, who could be on participating boats, on non-participating boats, or on the bank, and would not be identifiable BUT would report any breach of rules.

 

I appreciate that yours isn't a competition, but you could have a similar system with any persistent offender being asked to leave the run and go home. the chances are you will have little trouble as such a system will tend to put off those who would be guilty of reckless bravado from taking part.

 

PS, I still like these things to happen, but they need to recognise the modern context

 

I quite agree, to think you can emulate the conditions 40 years ago when the canals were relatively empty, is reckless and inconsiderate. I'm sure that the Boatman - Tom will have a few words to say about such matters as selfish behaviour of a few can taint the reputation of the rest of us.

[magpie patrick]

This crops up every year. We have a contributor from; Manchester; Bath; and the Peak Forest. If any of those folk have been personally disadvantaged in any way by such a run, perhaps their complaints can be directed to the alleged miscreants.

Would any who are actually, or might be affected by the passing of a train of boats like to speak up?

Derek

 

Thank you for your rather odd observation that, living in Bath the Grand Union and associated waterways are as relevant to me as the canals of Mars. When I purchased Ripple I encountered the Jam Hole run within hours of leaving the marina where I bought her. As it happens I've been boating for years but for all they knew I was a total novice, especially as she still sported her Clifton cruisers web address. I saw all the boats moving quickly, some were well managed, some were not, and some clearly had an attitude that this was their right and would you peasants on pleasure boats get out of the way. I had my mooring pins pulled out late at night, they had held for the first five pairs, the sixth washed us across the canal and I noticed when the seventh passed us on the towpath side! at Whilton Locks the next day I encountered 8 other boaters with similar experiences.

 

I like the historic spectacle of this and others, but those participating need to be courteous to the average pleasure boater, and be aware that people these days do not expect seven working past to go past at full tilt in the dark. In some ways, it is precisely because this event only happens once every two years that precautions should be taken.

 

All I suggested is that it should be run with a code of conduct such that the organisers could bawl out anyone who made a nuisance of themselves to other boaters. It is a wonderful spectacle, but that isn't justification for hassling other boaters

[David Schweizer]

I am one of the smaller number of people on this forum who actually remember the Jam 'ole Run along with the Harefield Gas Works run, the Lime Juice run, and the Willow Wren Northamptonshire Grain Run, all operating on the Southern GU in the I960's

 

Apart from one or two family double pairings, most working boats pairs tended to operate independantly, and whilst as many as a dozen pairs might pass through in a day, they were rarely bunched together in groups and if so never more than two or three, unless there had been a stoppage, or in the morning, close to a favourite overnight stopping place.

 

It was quite unusual to see the Blue Line pairs moving together and there were only three pairs in Michael Streats time, so seven or eight pairs moving in convoy is completely unauthentic., and misrepresents what actually used to happen.

Edited September 25, 2009 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

I seem to remember that in fairly recent years, this event gained something of a poor reputation from non-participants, due to the pace that was set.

 

There were complaints about running too fast, failing to slow for moored boats, jumping queues for locks and the like.

 

Those participating would do well to remember that there are now other waterways users, and that those waterways users are not a lesser breed, and that those playing at being working boats do not have a right to behave badly in recreating the run.

 

Agreed. I have grave misgivings about some of the actions of participants in this run which can give all of us a bad name. I once passed a moored boat approaching Braunston for the rally and the occupier popped his head out saying "these working boats can go slow then".

 

I quite agree, to think you can emulate the conditions 40 years ago when the canals were relatively empty, is reckless and inconsiderate. I'm sure that the Boatman - Tom will have a few words to say about such matters as selfish behaviour of a few can taint the reputation of the rest of us.

 

All I can say is that I helped work them through for a day last year, and the two bots I shadowed (Towcester & Swallow) were the very models of good behaviour.

 

They made their progress not by out and out speed, but by coordinated working between lock crews and steerers, and it was the perfect demonstration about how positioning the boats at just the right place at just the right time can really get you making progress that few achieve.

 

I can't speak for previous years, or other bits of the cut, but I have only praise for what I saw last year.

 

My one regret was that no pairs were involved - it was only motors participating.

 

Some of the so called "working boat" movement could have done well to come along as observers, as they might have learnt something. There are certainly a couple of boats down our way who really do give "working boats" a bad name, but they were thankfully not involved with this event.

[furnessvale]

This crops up every year. We have a contributor from; Manchester; Bath; and the Peak Forest. If any of those folk have been personally disadvantaged in any way by such a run, perhaps their complaints can be directed to the alleged miscreants.

 

Derek

 

Presumably I am the Peak Forest complainer.

 

Possibly this crops up every year because every year there are certain individuals who go out on this jolly and behave like prats.

 

I have not been personally disadvantaged by the run EXCEPT in the sense that (when I worked) I was tarred with the same brush. I was always too busy working to go on the run. I have however been chased down the cut by alleged working boaters with empty boats making a massive breaking wash only to find them later mid afternoon at a convenient canalside pub.

 

These comments do not apply to all participants but you must agree it applies to some.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[alan_fincher]

It was quite unusual to see the Blue Line pairs moving together and there were only three pairs in Michael Streats time, so seven or eight pairs moving in convoy is completely unauthentic., and misrepresents what actually used to happen.

It would be nice to see some pairs on the run, next time.

 

I don't have a problem how many working boats go on it, if they behave themselves.

 

The Blue Line crews did not hang about, but I don't think by the 1960s even they were in the habit of pulling out the spikes of properly moored boats - not really compatible with Blue Line's large presence in the leisure boating market! I can't condone Chis Pink's suggestion that nobody has a right to complain about loaded and/or paired boats at excessive speed. Last years event demonstrated it could be worthwhile without upsetting people wholesale.

 

Where I'll probably upset a few posters here is by saying I don't personally feel that converted boats should be involved, however authentic the original bits of the boat may be. You are asking the public to believe this is a recreation of carrying by boat, (or returning empty!), and peering through windows or portholes at fully fitted bathrooms and central heating systems somehow doesn't cut it for me. Just my view though, and at the end of the day, if a newcomer has taken on the organisation, then it's up to them to set the guidelines.

 

I'll turn out to lock-wheel next year, (although in all honesty they are so efficient that such extra help is a token gesture). I don't expect to see "bad" behavior, unless some of the "usual suspects" are allowed in - I very much hope it again happens in a manner that upsets nobody!

[Chris Pink]

I can't condone Chis Pink's suggestion that nobody has a right to complain about loaded and/or paired boats at excessive speed. Last years event demonstrated it could be worthwhile without upsetting people wholesale.

 

That is of course your right but how often do you see a loaded pair going at 'working' speed?

 

Worth putting your pins in a little deeper for in my opinion

 

ps agree about conversions, surely this run is about preserving something from its historical context.

[Derek R.]

So, do I win the Wooden Spoon award?

 

[supervisor]

So, do I win the Wooden Spoon award?

 

 

 

The jam ole run was done by loaded pairs and not single motors, woud the people with single motors be able to cope with a butty loaded or unloaded.

 

When you had a butty it was pulled through the single locks by hand and this took longer, otherwise it had to be picked up and released off by the motor, along with singling out and breasting up. this was not as easy as driving two motors in and out of locks

Edited September 25, 2009 by supervisor

[alan_fincher]

Worth putting your pins in a little deeper for in my opinion

And what is the impact on the "ninety something" percent of boat owners who maybe neither know (or care) they are coming ?

 

I think thed Blue Line crews had more respect than to rip people from their moorings, and if they didn't deliver, they didn't get paid, unlike the "hobbyists" doing the recreations.

 

Yes I love to see a pair worked efficiently, but the effect isn't exactly ruined if they make attempts not to upset the large number of people who would rather not get thrown around in the name of "authenticity". If they can get in and out of the locks in good style, they could probably cope with steering the pounds in between at most speeds, I think.

 

(The only way I could put "pins" in any deeper normally would be to buy even longer ones, BTW!).

[David Schweizer]

.......(The only way I could put "pins" in any deeper normally would be to buy even longer ones, BTW!).

I have a pair of "K&A pins" made by floating blacksmith Brian Greaves, they are 30" long and 1" diameter, even those got pulled by boats travelling too fast when I was moored on the K&A.

[Hairy-Neil]

The jam ole run was done by loaded pairs and not single motors,

 

Wrong!

 

When the contract ended there were the two pairs, 'Nutfield & Raymond' (Arthur Bray) and 'Renfrew & Lucy' (Bill Whitlock), operating and 'Stanton' (Jim Collings) was running as a single motor as it's regular butty, 'Belmont' had been condemned and it's replacement, 'Capella', was still on the dock at Braunston.

 

 

When you had a butty it was pulled through the single locks by hand and this took longer, otherwise it had to be picked up and released off by the motor, along with singling out and breasting up. this was not as easy as driving two motors in and out of locks

 

Surely with the exception of Suttons Stop lock, all the rest of the locks involved on the Jam'ole run are either broad or paired.

[David Schweizer]

Wrong!

 

When the contract ended there were the two pairs, 'Nutfield & Raymond' (Arthur Bray) and 'Renfrew & Lucy' (Bill Whitlock), operating and 'Stanton' (Jim Collings) was running as a single motor as it's regular butty, 'Belmont' had been condemned and it's replacement, 'Capella', was still on the dock at Braunston.

 

 

 

 

Surely with the exception of Suttons Stop lock, all the rest of the locks involved on the Jam'ole run are either broad or paired.

Come on Niel, Michael is not "wrong" as you imply. Jim and Doris Collins only ran a single motor for a few months and only as a stop gap arrangement. For the many years that the Run operated, the coal was delivered in motor and butty pairs.

 

An if we are going to get pedantic, Nutfield and Renfrew were comparatively recent replacememts to the fleet. For most of the time (and we are talking many years), the Whitlocks ran Ian, and the Brays ran Roger.

Edited September 26, 2009 by David Schweizer

[supervisor]

Wrong!

 

When the contract ended there were the two pairs, 'Nutfield & Raymond' (Arthur Bray) and 'Renfrew & Lucy' (Bill Whitlock), operating and 'Stanton' (Jim Collings) was running as a single motor as it's regular butty, 'Belmont' had been condemned and it's replacement, 'Capella', was still on the dock at Braunston.

 

 

 

 

Surely with the exception of Suttons Stop lock, all the rest of the locks involved on the Jam'ole run are either broad or paired.

 

 

At Atherston Blue line and Samual Barlows used to load below the fith lock at Atherston, they are single locks, it was only later on that they started to load above the top lock at Atherstone flight. Also the locks at Hillmorton were single locks.

[Hairy-Neil]

Come on Niel, Michael is not "wrong" as you imply. Jim and Doris Collins only ran a single motor for a few months......

 

 

But surely the event is commemorating the last run, the OP says so. The last run as we all know included a single motor.

 

Never is a long time. Once would have been enough.....

 

Buttying is simply a skill that can be learnt. I'm certain I wasn't born with the ability to steer a loaded one, despite my grandmother's family being being born to it.

 

Also the locks at Hillmorton were single locks.

 

Whenever I've worked a pair through Hilmorton we've set both of the paired locks and long lined through them. Never had to pull the butty through by hand.

[supervisor]

But surely the event is commemorating the last run, the OP says so. The last run as we all know included a single motor.

 

Never is a long time. Once would have been enough.....

 

Buttying is simply a skill that can be learnt. I'm certain I wasn't born with the ability to steer a loaded one, despite my grandmother's family being being born to it.

 

 

 

Whenever I've worked a pair through Hilmorton we've set both of the paired locks and long lined through them. Never had to pull the butty through by hand.

 

Just pointing out that suttons is not the only single lock on the run.

[Derek R.]

The caption states "The last coal run" but was it?

Albert's two in Cassio, from D.D. Gladwin's 'An Illustrated History of British Waterways' published by Spur 1977 (P.145) shows a black and white shot taken from the top gates of "Cassiobury Top Lock 1970" with a gent in a beret steering the motor (and just beyond the bottom gates), and a lady in a headscarf and short 'shiny' jacket steering the butty 'Ara' - no writing on the cabin sides, loaded, cloths rolled up and a bike on the coal.

 

Another question: Why 'Albert's two', and sometimes 'Mary's Two' (same pair of locks). We know about 'Sutton's', but who were Albert and Mary? Come to that - Peter below Maffas? Just local character/lock keepers, or is there a story?

 

Derek