Advice on Springers.

[niloc]

I have had several people interested in my boat which is for sale . The plan is to buy a cheap boat and hang about visitor moorings to........ nah its not. Still want a cheap boat though say 40 - 45 feet in length. Question: What about a Springer? I even like the look of them. I know they have thin hulls but these are v shaped. Does that mean they wear better? I assume the engines are generally BMC ? Has anyone any words of wisdom apart from DONT . There seems to be plenty about,just have to find a sound one.

[niloc]

I have had several people interested in my boat which is for sale . The plan is to buy a cheap boat and hang about visitor moorings to........ nah its not. Still want a cheap boat though say 40 - 45 feet in length. Question: What about a Springer? I even like the look of them. I know they have thin hulls but these are v shaped. Does that mean they wear better? I assume the engines are generally BMC ? Has anyone any words of wisdom apart from DONT . There seems to be plenty about,just have to find a sound one.

Well , well, just found an old thread on this subject. But any comment appreciated.

[churchward]

I know many view springers as the lowest of the low in terms of narrowboats but as you say there are many of them about still and since they are all 20-30 years old or more by now, for a cheap boat they have lasted a long time so that says something.

[Madmark62]

There are a few near our mooring in Brighouse and they all are still solid, a couple have been replated , but they all seem nice. Most of the ones near us have got Lister engines tho`, so maybe they didnt all use the same motor.

[casper ghost]

Where the hull is formed, bent, the steel is often even thinner than the rest, which is already thin. I think a survey is a must as they're all fairly old now. It has been said that better steel was used to make them and that's why they have lasted so well, often old boiler plate was used.

They had various engines installed not just BMC's. I'd go for one without a BMC, they can be trouble. I've seen them with Sabb's which I have and like alot. Or old Listers which are bomb proof.

[larrysanders]

We had a 1989 Springer Waterbug for several years. It was our first boat and it was brilliant for 10k. I bought it without a survey (didn't even know they existed) and we sold it for 10k, not bad hey. The new owners had a hull survey and it passed fine! I think if you get one which has been looked after you'll be ok... however be warned we looked at alot of ugly duckling Spingers before we found the right one!

[Chertsey]

Where the hull is formed, bent, the steel is often even thinner than the rest, which is already thin. I think a survey is a must as they're all fairly old now. It has been said that better steel was used to make them and that's why they have lasted so well, often old boiler plate was used.

They had various engines installed not just BMC's. I'd go for one without a BMC, they can be trouble. I've seen them with Sabb's which I have and like alot. Or old Listers which are bomb proof.

My understanding was that the steel used was of variable quality. Knew a guy in the Fens had one of the very earliest ones - 1959 and still going strong, reputedly made out of galvanised gasometer. Others made of very poor quailty stuff.

[Keeping Up]

Others made of very poor quailty stuff.

Especially the Waterbugs I believe

[Proper Job]

I had heard that Sam Springer 'sourced' his build materials from unusual places, but always thought that this was an urban myth.

 

Seems that it's true?

[Dominic M]

There's a lot still afloat. They provided a lot of people with the chance to enjoy the waterways at a very keen price. They can be overplated for a few bob if needs be. Everyone I've ever met on one seems to be thoroughly enjoying themselves because they don't give a toss if they bang the paintwork on occasion. Here's to 'em

 

I had heard that Sam Springer 'sourced' his build materials from unusual places, but always thought that this was an urban myth.

 

Seems that it's true?

On one or two you can still read the label where they forgot to remove it. It says, "Campbells" or "Heinz 57".

[grahoom]

I quite like springers, and seriously considered buying one - but I found my boat, and was happy with it (it's an old liverpool boat) - I wouldn't rule out a springer in the future.

[Keeping Up]

I had heard that Sam Springer 'sourced' his build materials from unusual places, but always thought that this was an urban myth.

 

Seems that it's true?

AFAIK he set up the company specifically to build boats out of the large quantity of ex-gasometer steel that he'd managfed to buy cheaply

[carlt]

I swapped my stage one V8 land rover, for a springer. then swapped the springer for the Big Ricky, Taplow.

 

 

 

I'm still not sure if any of them were good deals, though.

[alan_fincher]

I swapped my stage one V8 land rover, for a springer. then swapped the springer for the Big Ricky, Taplow.

 

 

 

I'm still not sure if any of them were good deals, though.

I rather think that Koukouvagia's story of swapping a near new Springer for an admittedly much unloved Josher, "Owl", was a good deal though....

 

Nobody seems to be able to come up with a consistent story about Springer steel thicknesses, or at what dates various types were built, though, (brokers particularly. )

 

If you believe some adverts the ones with "pointy" roofs and sterns, were not only built from steel thicknesses similar to today, but were also being built well into the 1980s of even 1990s.

 

Springers are a good honest boat, mostly still going strong, and I'd certainly not knock them. But they must also be the most mis-advertised, surely ?

[niloc]

Springer on Apollo at £20k. With cream leather settee ,32" lcd tv, micro wave, washing mc,with[ think it was] 3.5 kw generator. Fitted out in oak. Hmm to good to be true or to much money? Very little on hull or engine.

[casper ghost]

Springer on Apollo at £20k. With cream leather settee ,32" lcd tv, micro wave, washing mc,with[ think it was] 3.5 kw generator. Fitted out in oak. Hmm to good to be true or to much money? Very little on hull or engine.

Wouldn't be considering a springer if you have 20k budget.. Some very nice secondhand boats by good makers for near that price.

[larrysanders]

http://www.apolloduck.com/display.phtml?aid=107802

 

I was going to suggest this one... it looks a great example and the owner emailed me pictures when I was looking to upsize, however it's just sold. Always the way. Goes to show there are nice Springers out there though!

[niloc]

Heres a question. How much would you pay for a tidy Springer? I think max £20k if the hull has been plated. Or should i be thinking max £15k or what? There must be a sensible max figure for general consideration. I mean what are they really worth. I realise its up to the individual but there still must be a max.

[churchward]

There's a lot still afloat. They provided a lot of people with the chance to enjoy the waterways at a very keen price. They can be overplated for a few bob if needs be. Everyone I've ever met on one seems to be thoroughly enjoying themselves because they don't give a toss if they bang the paintwork on occasion. Here's to 'em

 

 

On one or two you can still read the label where they forgot to remove it. It says, "Campbells" or "Heinz 57".

Quite agree, it's not necessarily the boat that matters it is the fun you have using it.

[onthecut]

. Or old Listers which are bomb proof.

 

Trouble is, because they are such long lived and tough units, some owners equate that with there being no need to service them, ever. The result, therefore, is that you will come across some of them in need of quite substantial work. While (to my mind) they are generally well worth repairing, as you will come out with a vastly better made engine than many more modern offerings, it may threaten to put a hole in your budget that you hadn't anticipated.

If you do wind up looking at Lister engined ones, there are two very simple ways of doing a basic assessment of their condition. First is to hear them start from cold. In good order they should fire and be running in two or three seconds. No glow plugs, no cranking for minutes on end, no easy start. The longer they take, the greater the indication of likely wear.

Second thing -- assuming a working pressure gauge or oil warning lamp is fitted -- try and take the boat for a good thrash to get it properly hot and see what happens to the oil pressure. If when hot the lamp is on, or the gauge is on its stop it's a serious indication of bearing wear and quite major work needed.

 

Mike.

[Dominic M]

Nobody seems to be able to come up with a consistent story about Springer steel thicknesses, or at what dates various types were built, though, (brokers particularly. )

Ridiculous unfounded generalisation, Alan.

 

They were mostly built to 10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3* thicknesses. And that was just the bottom plate

 

(*delete as necessary)

[alan_fincher]

They were mostly built to 10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3* thicknesses. And that was just the bottom plate

Was that all on the same boat ?

[Richard T]

My only comment is that one of their welders was Jez Harris, who in the pre-professional days of rugby was one the finest goal kickers to play for Leicester Tigers. If his welding skills were half as good as his kicking ones there is some b......y good boats about. See this link Jez Harris !!!

[O'Mali]

I once had a 1969 Springer. I was told that it was made from re-cycled gas towers that one used to see blighting the landscape which is supposed to be high quality steel.

 

Where they went wrong was they did not have a forward bulk head that went from top to bottom and a poorly fitted plywood front deck so all the rain water went into the through bilge. Add to that some used to have the shower water going in there to, they rusted from the inside out.

 

Some of the better springers out there would have had early modifications by the owners i.e. steel self draining bow deck fitted and/or cratch cover fitted to keep the rain out and a proper shower set up.

[Keeping Up]

I once had a 1969 Springer. I was told that it was made from re-cycled gas towers that one used to see blighting the landscape which is supposed to be high quality steel.

 

Where they went wrong was they did not have a forward bulk head that went from top to bottom and a poorly fitted plywood front deck so all the rain water went into the through bilge. Add to that some used to have the shower water going in there to, they rusted from the inside out.

 

Some of the better springers out there would have had early modifications by the owners i.e. steel self draining bow deck fitted and/or cratch cover fitted to keep the rain out and a proper shower set up.

Back in those days ALL steel narrowboats were built that way.