man crushed in lock

[bastonjock]

i was down on the nene today,i was told that a guy was crushed by the paddle wilst locking through at orton on the nene,the bloke is in a bad way,apparently he is on a life support machine.

[stewey]

i was down on the nene today,i was told that a guy was crushed by the paddle wilst locking through at orton on the nene,the bloke is in a bad way,apparently he is on a life support machine.

What terrible news. I hope he makes a full recovery.

 

Bastonjock, I found the following picture of Orton lock on the Waymarking site:

 

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.as...fordshire,%20UK

 

That is one scary looking sight.

 

Stewey

[Boatless]

That is a horrible looking piece of equipment,do hope the poor guy recovers OK.

[bridgit]

A reminder to us all to be careful out there, hope he makes a full recovery.

[bastonjock]

i was down at the nene making an application to join a club and the chaps wife turned up,i was later told that he had broken ribs,crushed spleen and either his liver or kidneys had been crushed.The bloke was an experienced boater

[MoominPapa]

i was down at the nene making an application to join a club and the chaps wife turned up,i was later told that he had broken ribs,crushed spleen and either his liver or kidneys had been crushed.The bloke was an experienced boater

Did he fall foul of a top-gate paddle, or the guillotine gate? I'm not being goul-ish, but I'd like to understand what went wrong so as to avoid the same fate.

 

Orton lock is horrible: there's a vicious eddy from the weirs below it which makes getting onto the landing stage difficult. The guillotine gate leaks badly which makes getting a level when the lock is full very difficult.

 

MP.

Edited April 26, 2009 by MoominPapa

[bastonjock]

MP

 

i dont know all of the details,and as i was trying to join the PYC i did not want to appear too inquisitive,i dont want to give out any misinformation as in a case such as this there will no doubt be an enquiery of some description,i hopefully will find out more in two weeks time,assuming that ill be getting the invite.The chap from the EA was i believe looking into the incident.The wife of the chap who was injured turned up whilst i was there,i hope that he makes a full recovery.

[PaddingtonBear]

Perhaps the GREAT LEADER is more right than we know. I any event it will allow her to go on again about how truly awful the Nene is, so she will be happy, which is what we all want isn't it?

[Chris J W]

Perhaps the GREAT LEADER is more right than we know. I any event it will allow her to go on again about how truly awful the Nene is, so she will be happy, which is what we all want isn't it?

 

WTF??

[carlt]

Perhaps the GREAT LEADER is more right than we know. I any event it will allow her to go on again about how truly awful the Nene is, so she will be happy, which is what we all want isn't it?

Do I detect a bit of spleen venting?

[starman]

Did he fall foul of a top-gate paddle, or the guillotine gate? I'm not being goul-ish, but I'd like to understand what went wrong so as to avoid the same fate.

 

Orton lock is horrible: there's a vicious eddy from the weirs below it which makes getting onto the landing stage difficult. The guillotine gate leaks badly which makes getting a level when the lock is full very difficult.

 

MP.

 

Agree with you about all that; there was a kids' canoe slalom race going on across it when we last went up the Nene. They were well supervised but one or two still nipped across into the stream when we were committed to head towards the lock - scary. Then we caught stuck in it because of that leaking gate and eventually had to give the top gates a couple of hefty bumps to let the last of the water in there and make a level. Still hard to comprehend how such an accident would happen: the guillotine is electric and goes up and down very slowly.

[PaddingtonBear]

Yes and what is wrong with that may I ask Carl? If spleen venting was prevented most if not all of the 'boys' would not be able to post. Even you would be be banned some of the time.

[Naughty Cal]

Given the injuries sustained by the poor chap in question can we not find a better way of describing the husband/wife arguments

[bastonjock]

Agree with you about all that; there was a kids' canoe slalom race going on across it when we last went up the Nene. They were well supervised but one or two still nipped across into the stream when we were committed to head towards the lock - scary. Then we caught stuck in it because of that leaking gate and eventually had to give the top gates a couple of hefty bumps to let the last of the water in there and make a level. Still hard to comprehend how such an accident would happen: the guillotine is electric and goes up and down very slowly.

 

i would guess and judging by the injurys that the arm of the paddle swung round and hit the chap,at present it is not known if it is down to the equipment or human error.

[MoominPapa]

i would guess and judging by the injurys that the arm of the paddle swung round and hit the chap,at present it is not known if it is down to the equipment or human error.

You mean the gate? The paddle is the valve which lets water through the gate. (At least that's what it's called on the canals. On the Middle Level it would be called a "slacker". I've no idea what the local term is on the Nene.)

 

I can see that that could be nasty: if the top gates were open and the bottom guillotine raised then the top gates would slam shut with a hell of bang. Getting in the way of the balance beam would be a bad thing to do. Some of the Nene locks have a proximity switch on the top gate which inhibits lifting the guillotine until the top gates are closed, but not all.

 

This brings to mind an event which happened to us at Orton lock last year, I wonder if it's related? (I really hope not, since I will feel so bad for not taking more action at the time). Going through the lock, we were unable to get the top gates open because of the amount of water leaking through the guillotine. Thinking that the problem might be debris stuck under the guillotine, I pressed the button to raise it slightly, intending to flush the crap away and then drop it again. These gates have a safety timer on them, they allow the gate to be raised enough to empty the lock, and then lock-out the "raise" function for long enough for the lock to empty. Once the timer has expired the guillotine can be raised all the way for the boat to exit. When I pressed the "up" button, the guillotine raised, as expected, and the "timer" light came on. What surprised me was that the "down" button was locked out too: I couldn't immediately drop the guillotine, but had to wait for the timer. In our case this was an inconvenience; instead of sealing the guillotine and allowing the lock to fill, I managed to half-empty it again. But it did strike me at the time that a lock in which it's not possible to stop filling or emptying FAST in an emergency is dangerous.

 

 

The paddle mechanisms on the top-gates of Nene locks are dubious from the same reason: the EA are currently replacing them with something that can raise or lower the paddle with 30 turns of the windlass. That's better then the old mechansism (which was 80 turns, apparently), but it's still a hell of a long time in an emergency, and much longer than can be achieved with canal-style ratchets.

 

 

MP.

Edited April 27, 2009 by MoominPapa

[Tiny]

Years ago when Orton was not electric I was told that it leaked due to the bottom gate actually raising slightly after it had wound down. The remedy then was to hold the last wind down hard down while another crew member locked the locking mechanism to keep it in place. This worked.

 

Strangely enough this trick gave us some satisfaction when we were joined by and then shared the previous lock with a hire boat only for him to race off once a level was achieved - leaving us to wind down and close up the previous lock after him. When we got to Orton he was in with the guilloteen already half down. We moored up and had lunch. By the time we were done chummy was still in the lock trying to force the top gates open with a local boater trying to explain that getting a level was difficult - at which point chummies massed crew managed it. We chatted to the boater - now coming down who said he had tried to explain to chummy about the bottom gate pop up and that chummies best idea was to empty the lock and start again with the gate locked down but he was ignored - just as chummy had ignored us earlier.

[magpie patrick]

While I am very anti the over zealous nature of H&S, I can immediately see that a guillotine that will raise but not lower is VERY dangerous indeed: this was one of the main arguments against hydraulic paddle gear on the canals, that it couldn't be closed in a hurry. In principle I want to see the guillotines preserved, they are almost unique, but in practice they were a heck of a lot safer when their operations was entirely manual.

Edited April 27, 2009 by magpie patrick

[carlt]

Yes and what is wrong with that may I ask Carl? If spleen venting was prevented most if not all of the 'boys' would not be able to post. Even you would be be banned some of the time.

If you could point to anywhere, in my post, that implies that I thought there was anything wrong with it, I will remove it and apologise.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with ventint one's spleen, in public, but I disagree...If it was against the rules I'd be banned most of the time.

[stewey]

I don't think there's anything wrong with ventint one's spleen, in public, but I disagree...If it was against the rules I'd be banned most of the time.

Is that some sort of colourful language!

 

Stewey

[carlt]

Is that some sort of colourful language!

 

Stewey

No, that's a typo.

[bastonjock]

from what MP describes,not being able to close the gates when the timer is on,is bad design.I, may well be that the specification on the guilloteen control is set for it all to work in that manner.Id like to have a close look at the gate controls as i am a controls engineer.

 

I think that using the word "spleen" in this post is out of context as the poor guys spleen was crushed as a result of the accident.

[carlt]

I think that using the word "spleen" in this post is out of context as the poor guys spleen was crushed as a result of the accident.

No it wasn't out of context. It was merely using an established and accepted phrase to ask a question.

 

If you mean it was inappropriate then, as I had no idea of the extent of the man's injuries then it wasn't that, either.

[ditchcrawler]

If you could point to anywhere, in my post, that implies that I thought there was anything wrong with it, I will remove it and apologise.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with ventint one's spleen, in public, but I disagree...If it was against the rules I'd be banned most of the time.

I saw a boat named something like that moored by the Shropi Fly last year. Diana didn't like the name until I explained it was a comon term to Vent ones spleen

[FadeToScarlet]

But it did strike me at the time that a lock in which it's not possible to stop filling or emptying FAST in an emergency is dangerous.

 

 

The paddle mechanisms on the top-gates of Nene locks are dubious from the same reason: the EA are currently replacing them with something that can raise or lower the paddle with 30 turns of the windlass. That's better then the old mechansism (which was 80 turns, apparently), but it's still a hell of a long time in an emergency, and much longer than can be achieved with canal-style ratchets.

 

 

MP.

 

I agree about the guillotine timer being dangerous. A few of the Ouze and both the Cam locks have "Emergency Stop" buttons, which lock the gate in position, but they're pretty much useless as you have to have your finger on the button to raise or lower the gate anyway, and if you take your finger off, it stops. It's struck me as well that, when the delay timer is in operation, you can't lower the guillotine to stop the lock emptying (or filling if it's that way around); if a boat's hung up or tied tightly, then that could well be dangerous. You also couldn't lower the gate if someone or something fell into the lock, to prevent them being sucked under by the current.

 

Incidentally, if you wondered where the old, slow and annoying paddle gear has gone... some is now proudly installed, and freshly painted, on Jesus Lock in Cambridge, so if you ever get nostalgic...

[bastonjock]

a bit of an update on ths one.It turns out that the guy is registered as blind,he was not boating at the time,just walking past the lock,he has some vision but its not great.he was hit by a beam as he walked passed the lock,his injurys were so bad that he was expected to die,so far he has survived.The guys dad is a frend of a friend and this all came from him,The injured bloke had his ribs broken,lungs punctured and his liver was split in two.he was transfered to a hospital in Leicester.

 

There is a question over the lenght of the beam,it may be that the beam at orton is too long by a couple of feet,this statement came frpm the guys dad,so can anyone comment on the lenght of the beams?

 

My mate works at the hospital and so does the guys dad