Private Boat yard to public?

[Puddytat]

Hi all

 

My family own a house with a private boat yard and a field along the bank of the Nene near peterborough. We are looking to turn this into a public yard with moorings down the bank. How would we do this? Who do we need to contact first? I imagine its not straight forwards...how long do these things take? Any information would be very helpful!

 

Many thanks

 

Holly

[KenK]

Hi all

 

My family own a house with a private boat yard and a field along the bank of the Nene near peterborough. We are looking to turn this into a public yard with moorings down the bank. How would we do this? Who do we need to contact first? I imagine its not straight forwards...how long do these things take? Any information would be very helpful!

 

Many thanks

 

Holly

 

The Nene is controlled by the Environment Agency so I would think they should be able to assist. Wellcome to the forum.

 

Ken

Edited November 7, 2008 by KenK

[GUMPY]

Hi all

 

My family own a house with a private boat yard and a field along the bank of the Nene near peterborough. We are looking to turn this into a public yard with moorings down the bank. How would we do this? Who do we need to contact first? I imagine its not straight forwards...how long do these things take? Any information would be very helpful!

 

You would need at least the following:

Enviornment Agancy as its on the Nene, thats flood plain and there is restricted development

The Planning office of your local council as it would mean a change of use of the land.

 

Cant think of anyone else but there must be someone

 

Julian

[Puddytat]

Thanks guys..

 

Would I need to contact BW? Just found quite a bit of info on their site..

 

And, just out of curiosity..who would be interested in moorings near Water Newton? Its a bit further up than that..its obviously its just an idea at the moment. Prices would be cheap, and its got good access. Anybody with experience with this?

 

Holly

[johnthebridge]

Thanks guys..

 

Would I need to contact BW? Just found quite a bit of info on their site..

 

And, just out of curiosity..who would be interested in moorings near Water Newton? Its a bit further up than that..its obviously its just an idea at the moment. Prices would be cheap, and its got good access. Anybody with experience with this?

 

Holly

Stay away from BW as much as possible. They have no jurisdiction over this area anyway. I'm tempted to say just go ahead and do it, and when the EA comes around, just put your hands up and profess ignorance! Then ask them for advice. It depends how brave you feel, and how large a site you wish to create. If you ask first, and get turned down, what do you do then? Whatever you do, good luck with it, you should have no trouble in getting customers.

[Tim Lewis]

Stay away from BW as much as possible. They have no jurisdiction over this area anyway. I'm tempted to say just go ahead and do it, and when the EA comes around, just put your hands up and profess ignorance! Then ask them for advice. It depends how brave you feel, and how large a site you wish to create. If you ask first, and get turned down, what do you do then? Whatever you do, good luck with it, you should have no trouble in getting customers.

 

Possibly the worst advise I have ever seen on this forum!

 

Tim

[carlt]

Possibly the worst advise I have ever seen on this forum!

 

Tim

I was going to suggest they start building wooden boats.....

 

Seriously, though, you must speak to EA (John's right about BW, though...nowt to do with them.)

 

If you invest in developing your land, without the necessary permissions, then it could cost you more to dismantle, than it did to construct.

 

You never know, if it's in a tasty location, you may get a bit more than just advice and cooperation.

[denboy]

You say it has a private boat yard already it may pay you to check on any planing that may have been granted for it and if there was any sort of business setup associated with the yard am i making sense ie if it was running as a boatyard in the past it should not be to hard to reopen as a yard

[johnthebridge]

Possibly the worst advise I have ever seen on this forum!

 

Tim

I can't quite agree with you about that, and

I did say, "I'm tempted to say..."

[David Schweizer]

Stay away from BW as much as possible. They have no jurisdiction over this area anyway. I'm tempted to say just go ahead and do it, and when the EA comes around, just put your hands up and profess ignorance! Then ask them for advice. It depends how brave you feel, and how large a site you wish to create. If you ask first, and get turned down, what do you do then? Whatever you do, good luck with it, you should have no trouble in getting customers.

That is not good advice.

 

Before you contact anyone else, speak to the local Planning Officer to establish whether you are likely to get Planning Consent for your family's proposals. If you go ahead without consent, you may well be required to return the site to it's original state before you changed it. There have been two cases this week alone where Houses have been demolished by the local Authority because they were built without Planning Consent., - A costly business.

 

Once you have established that there is no forseen impediment to gaining Planning Consent, speak to the local Navigation Authority, to establish whether there will be any wayleave/Access charges. Once that has been cleared you are in a position to apply for Planning, and possibly Chanfge of Use Consent, THat may well be the timne to also speak to your Solicitor.

Edited November 7, 2008 by David Schweizer

[Paul H]

I thought there was a recent test case (IIRC on the K and A) which found that boat moorings did not require planning permission as it was not a material change of use. You woul be no different from the many farmers round the country who have let out bankside moorings

 

I would just go ahead providing no major works are required - my experience is (and I'm a trained town planner) is that if you are later told that you need planning permision you are far more likely to receive it retrospectively than if you had gone through the proper procedure and applied in the first place. Planning offices are understaffed and underfunded and take a pragmatic view particularly of low impact "de minimis" developments.

 

Now a full blown boatyard with boatbuilding and repairs going on is quite another matter. Also the Environment Agency may also have a view. On the Thames you often have riparian rights (and a right to moor) but still need their permission for construction of a jetty. It might be different on the Nene.

 

Paul H

[johnthebridge]

I thought there was a recent test case (IIRC on the K and A) which found that boat moorings did not require planning permission as it was not a material change of use. You woul be no different from the many farmers round the country who have let out bankside moorings

 

I would just go ahead providing no major works are required - my experience is (and I'm a trained town planner) is that if you are later told that you need planning permision you are far more likely to receive it retrospectively than if you had gone through the proper procedure and applied in the first place. Planning offices are understaffed and underfunded and take a pragmatic view particularly of low impact "de minimis" developments.

 

Now a full blown boatyard with boatbuilding and repairs going on is quite another matter. Also the Environment Agency may also have a view. On the Thames you often have riparian rights (and a right to moor) but still need their permission for construction of a jetty. It might be different on the Nene.

 

Paul H

Thank goodness that someone has shown some common sense here. My earlier musings, nothing more than that, were castigated as "the worst advise" (sic) given on this forum. Neither I, or anyone else, has the slightest idea of the exact level of service that Pudditat and her family wish to achieve. Does she want a full-blown, all-singing and dancing marina, or something a little more moderate?

If the intention was merely to provide a few "informal" moorings, and earn a bit of extra cash, then I cannot possibly see what harm there would be in doing so. If, at a later stage, the EA took an adverse interest and stopped boats from mooring there, then there would have been little or no loss of investment to her. Hence my statement.

I agree wholeheartedly with the premise made by Paul. Does Pudditat really want the full majesty of EA (and other) bureaucracy to descend upon her, simply to open a few, much needed moorings?

She has already stated that her charges would be low. Surely this must give a clue to what she would like?

[down the north]

Thank goodness that someone has shown some common sense here. My earlier musings, nothing more than that, were castigated as "the worst advise" (sic) given on this forum. Neither I, or anyone else, has the slightest idea of the exact level of service that Pudditat and her family wish to achieve. Does she want a full-blown, all-singing and dancing marina, or something a little more moderate?

If the intention was merely to provide a few "informal" moorings, and earn a bit of extra cash, then I cannot possibly see what harm there would be in doing so. If, at a later stage, the EA took an adverse interest and stopped boats from mooring there, then there would have been little or no loss of investment to her. Hence my statement.

I agree wholeheartedly with the premise made by Paul. Does Pudditat really want the full majesty of EA (and other) bureaucracy to descend upon her, simply to open a few, much needed moorings?

She has already stated that her charges would be low. Surely this must give a clue to what she would like?

 

Here Here John,

musings added from me then, over the years up and down the shroppie, I see all these moorings that I would have loved to purchase and use, but the opportunity somehow never came up,, but I wonder how many applied for planning permission, I guess only a few. So I would advocate limited expense on mooring construction which could also been seen as bank protection, and see how it goes.

This could start another thread, but whats the position regards EOG ( end of garden mooring). Now, as I have been told, BW arent ( in some areas) ?? allowing any more EOG's unless they are exactly that, ie attached to a residential property. However,I've learnt that BW pushed recently for an extension to field moorings already in existence at shackerstone.

Has anyone else got any info re EOG's and the current state of play. I currently own canalside land and did apply for mooring permission, and still havent had a definative reply after a year and a half, but the original application was before the 'government' as I was told put a stop to EOG's unless attached to residenses, which I think came about about a year ago !

 

cheers,

martin

[johnthebridge]

Here Here John,

musings added from me then, over the years up and down the shroppie, I see all these moorings that I would have loved to purchase and use, but the opportunity somehow never came up,, but I wonder how many applied for planning permission, I guess only a few. So I would advocate limited expense on mooring construction which could also been seen as bank protection, and see how it goes.

This could start another thread, but whats the position regards EOG ( end of garden mooring). Now, as I have been told, BW arent ( in some areas) ?? allowing any more EOG's unless they are exactly that, ie attached to a residential property. However,I've learnt that BW pushed recently for an extension to field moorings already in existence at shackerstone.

Has anyone else got any info re EOG's and the current state of play. I currently own canalside land and did apply for mooring permission, and still havent had a definative reply after a year and a half, but the original application was before the 'government' as I was told put a stop to EOG's unless attached to residenses, which I think came about about a year ago !

 

cheers,

martin

Hiya Martin,

You well?

If I had a fiver for every "unofficial mooring" on pubs, farms and yards that I (and probably you) know, I'd be writing this from some exotic climate! Go ahead with your land, and let the buggers play catch-up!

Best, John.

[down the north]

Hiya Martin,

You well?

If I had a fiver for every "unofficial mooring" on pubs, farms and yards that I (and probably you) know, I'd be writing this from some exotic climate! Go ahead with your land, and let the buggers play catch-up!

Best, John.

 

Cheers,, well I'm tempted, but also have the space for a small basin, @ 100ft x 100ft so I'm pondering on what the best approach would be, I'd get more moorings in a basin than 3 or 4 linear. has anyone heard of recent linear moorings been 'evicted' by BW at all, apart from the usual 15% ? of moorings not renewed as per the reduction to fill new close by marinas !!!!

Obviously a basin would be better, and as I understand it, BW CANNOT refuse a basin ( due to it not being on their land) but of course can refuse connection.

cheers

martin

[nene offspring]

Please keep us imformed with your family's boatyard, I've been looking for a mooring on that stretch of the Nene, sounds interesting!

[Smelly]

Worth a PM to Magpie Patrick methinks...

[carlt]

Obviously a basin would be better, and as I understand it, BW CANNOT refuse a basin ( due to it not being on their land) but of course can refuse connection.

cheers

martin

It is nothing to do with BW.

 

The Nene is controlled by the EA.

[wonderdust]

Cheers,, well I'm tempted, but also have the space for a small basin, @ 100ft x 100ft so I'm pondering on what the best approach would be, I'd get more moorings in a basin than 3 or 4 linear. has anyone heard of recent linear moorings been 'evicted' by BW at all, apart from the usual 15% ? of moorings not renewed as per the reduction to fill new close by marinas !!!!

Obviously a basin would be better, and as I understand it, BW CANNOT refuse a basin ( due to it not being on their land) but of course can refuse connection.

cheers

martin

 

Be carefull by just going ahead and doing it, i am moored at March and recently EA have just closed down a site that had boats moored linear, the owner had had no planning permission for it although he said he had!. All the boats had to be moved to new moorings!

[Whitewater]

Be carefull by just going ahead and doing it, i am moored at March and recently EA have just closed down a site that had boats moored linear, the owner had had no planning permission for it although he said he had!. All the boats had to be moved to new moorings!

Most moorings need some sort of planning permission, where ever it is, a boatyard, EOG just because you own the land does not give you carte blanche. Any moorings that spring up are noticed, even though it might takes some months for anything to happen. These are normally enforced by the local planning office. Some are more active than others. I have witnessed three moorings over the last few months being shut down as they had no planning permission. On the Thames local authorities are also beginning to realise they they have to manage there land as well. Moorings are becoming more and more scarce.

[larkshall]

Just a suggestion, contact the residential boat owners association (RBOA), they have a scheme to assist in people wanting to do what you propose. I know thy concentrate on the residential part, but I'm sure they will point you in the right direction. I had dealings with them when I worked for a council, and they are pretty clued up regarding regs and legs.

[Tam & Di]

Has anyone else got any info re EOG's and the current state of play. I currently own canalside land and did apply for mooring permission, and still havent had a definative reply after a year and a half, but the original application was before the 'government' as I was told put a stop to EOG's unless attached to residenses, which I think came about about a year ago !

 

cheers,

martin

 

It depends where your land is and what you actually do own. Rights on rivers differ to those on canals. As far as canals are concerned, if BW own a "ransom" strip - a narrow strip of land that separates your holding from the canal - then it's up to them to allow mooring or not, and they can make any provisos they think fit. If you own the land right to the canal you will have rights enshrined in the original Enabling Act that permitted the canal to be dug. These vary from one canal Act to another, but most of them say something to the effect that riparian owners have the right to make places for boats to moor or lie.

 

These "historic" rights were brought to the fore during the passage of the BW Bill through Parliament in the 90s and if you don't want to undertake all the research yourself you should be able to get details from the RBOA who were party to the Bill as it became enacted.

 

The EOG issue was based upon a different premise entirely - effectively whether a cruising licence allowed a boat to stop as well as to cruise.

[Andy Beckl]

. . As far as canals are concerned, if BW own a "ransom" strip - a narrow strip of land that separates your holding from the canal - then it's up to them to allow mooring or not,

 

But the Nene is a River under the control of the Environment Agency (at the moment) so the owner of the adjoining land (the riparian owner to use the jargon) may allow mooring anywhere he/she likes. I am led to believe that the landowner actually owns the river bed too, up to the centre line of the river!

 

There is at least one field in your area where mooring is permitted for the 'price' of a bottle of whiskey to the farmer.

 

Nevertheless I'd recommend contacting EA. In my opinion it'd be far better to create a small basin on the land so that mooring, flow and the provision of services would be far better. That's the way to make it a proper business.

 

Cheers

 

Andy