Do I need to replace the damn batteries already??

[Modelmaker]

Ok thanks so much everyone for your replies,

 

Where to start...First I will try to clarify some confusion. I do not have shore power. I mentioned the bat charger because I thought that was still used when charching from the engine, i realise now thats not the case so I guess the power courses straight out of the altenator into the bats. Gave the boat 4 hours that night and another 4 thenct morning and the voltage still quickly dropped down to around 10 after reading the normal 14.2 while charching and 12ish straight afterwards. I am away from the boat this weekend but I am intending to buy 2 more 135 ah batteries to add to my bank. Is this ok? can I just add them on to the others do I need any other equpment? Since everyone is suprised at how few I have I figure I ought to put that right from the outset. There is a lot of complex stuff you guys want me to try out, much of it is dutch to me but you've all been amazingly helpful and I'll try and work my way through it and post up what I find. If my existing 2 are gonners, does it mean it'd be a bad idea to keep them in the chain with new ones? P.S how does everone manage to charge their bats for longer than 4 hours a night? Do I have to be confined to my boat every night? or is it ok to give them a long charge at the weekend and a shorter one on week nights?

 

Thanks again everyone!

[John Orentas]

Why do you imagine that 2 of your batteries have jacked it in at the same time, it not electrics it's common sense.. It you have two dogs and they both fall ill on the same day that's not just bad luck, look for a common factor.

[bottle]

Modelmaker

 

I may have missed it but here goes, get back to basics.

 

Switch off the isolator so that there is no load on the batteries, undo all the connections, one at a time, then clean them and re-connect.

 

If you feel that you could dis-connect all the connections (take a photo or make a diagram) you could check each battery individually. (voltage)

 

Check the electrolyte levels (standard lead acid batteries). Plates need to be covered (just) but do not overfill.

 

A hydrometer would also be an aid, simply all readings should be very close to each other, in each battery.

 

If one cell is very different it does point towards a 'duff' battery.

[Steilsteven]

Hi Modelmaker.

 

This thread comes up om the forum with almost boring regularity.. You don't need to replace all your batteries, you have ONE dud one.. But you can't tell which it is while they are connected together..

 

if you test a bank of batteries that are all connected together it will not be surprising to find the voltage is the same wherever you poke your multimeter probes.. One way or another you must separate them and evaluate them one at a time, once you get into it you will find that it is very easy and the dud will jump out at you.

 

This is my last electric post for a few months!

 

Sorry but, according to Energy Solutions when I had battery problems, it is false economy to connect new batteries to old ones.

The old ones (regardless of them being in good condition) will have used up part of their life span, if you connect a new one to them it's life span will be reduced by the same amount.

 

Modelmaker would do well to seek the advise he needs from Energy Solutions, I found them extremely helpfull even though it was obviously unlikely that I would be buying anything from them.

 

Keith.

[John Orentas]

Sorry but, according to Energy Solutions when I had battery problems, it is false economy to connect new batteries to old ones.

The old ones (regardless of them being in good condition) will have used up part of their life span, if you connect a new one to them it's life span will be reduced by the same amount.

 

Modelmaker would do well to seek the advise he needs from Energy Solutions, I found them extremely helpfull even though it was obviously unlikely that I would be buying anything from them.

 

Keith.

 

 

Well ......... In those famous words of Christine Keeler .............................

[Nickhlx]

Before any logical progress in the right direction can be made, what is needed is to properly assess the situation and correctly identify the problems using known good instruments - isn't it ?

 

At least, that is what I would expect if I had a similar problem and were to engage a "professional" to sort it out.

 

Nick

Edited November 1, 2008 by Nickhlx

[John Orentas]

Before any logical progress in the right direction can be made, what is needed is to properly assess the situation and correctly identify the problems using known good instruments - isn't it ?

 

At least, that is what I would expect if I had a similar problem and were to engage a "professional" to sort it out.

 

Nick

 

 

 

Not 'brain surgery' Nick. To a very great extent an electrolytic cell either works or it doesn't even though a few people choose to observe complexity that isn't really there.

Edited November 1, 2008 by John Orentas

[Nickhlx]

Not 'brain surgery' Nick. To a very great extent an electrolytic cell either works or it doesn't even though a few people choose to observe complexity that isn't really there.

 

 

Couldn't agree more ! - The basics need to be established.... discover what the situation really is.... establish charging is happening though good connections to non-duff batteries...... etc etc .

 

Without knowledge of "the basics", how can anyone proceed, or even advise how to proceed ?

 

Nick

[Keeping Up]

Sorry but, according to Energy Solutions when I had battery problems, it is false economy to connect new batteries to old ones.

The old ones (regardless of them being in good condition) will have used up part of their life span, if you connect a new one to them it's life span will be reduced by the same amount.

That is true if the faulty battery is suffering from a shorted cell, but is 100% untrue if it is merely suffering from old age

[alan_fincher]

Well ......... In those famous words of Christine Keeler .............................

Point of order John....

 

Being picky, but if the words you are thinking of are the ones I believe they are, they were spoken by Mandy Rice-Davies, rather than Christine Keeler....

[John Orentas]

Point of order John....

 

Being picky, but if the words you are thinking of are the ones I believe they are, they were spoken by Mandy Rice-Davies, rather than Christine Keeler....

 

 

Are you sure...... Well she would have said it given the opportunity.

[chris w]

MRD also wittily said that her whole life had been "one slow descent into respectability". She ended up marrying an Israeli businessman and opening a string of "Mandy" nightclubs in Tel Aviv.

[smileypete]

Check the electrolyte levels (standard lead acid batteries). Plates need to be covered (just) but do not overfill.

 

I always thought this was the case but am not so sure now.

If there's any doubt I'd consult the supplier or manufacturer.

 

 

Now most (all?) 'open' batteries have a 'bar' across the bottom of the topping up holes.

 

When the battery is filled at the factory or supplier I'm pretty sure they would fill up to this level using an automatic filler, and not peer into each cell individually.

 

So I think this is the maximum allowable acid level when fully charged, but see underlined text above.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited November 2, 2008 by smileypete

[John Orentas]

I have occasionally overfilled a battery, as long as there is no spillage it didn't seem to make much difference and of course natural evaporation will sort it out eventually..

 

The important thing is not try to adjust the quantity of acid in there, the correct amount that was put in during manufacture will not vary.

[bottle]

Pete

 

You are right, of course, and it is such a long time since I checked a battery level, I have not seen 'the bar' must be some new fangled gadget.

[Chris Pink]

Of course it's not right but you defend him and insult me in the process! You deserve his duff information.

 

 

hey, Terry the Toast......

 

......grow up.

 

This post is more appropriate to the playground than a canal forum.

[docus]

Sorry to derail... I have an embarrassingly ignorant question...

 

I was wondering what people mean by filling up the batteries? What do you fill it up with? How do you know when it needs filling? I had a look but couldn't see where to pour anything in.

[alan_fincher]

Sorry to derail... I have an embarrassingly ignorant question...

 

I was wondering what people mean by filling up the batteries? What do you fill it up with? How do you know when it needs filling? I had a look but couldn't see where to pour anything in.

You may, or you may not have some way of topping up a battery.

 

If you can there will be removable caps, or screwed plugs, one per 2 volt cell, so 6 in total on a 12 volt battery.

 

You top up with "deionised water", bought from motoring outlets. (Years ago one used "distilled water").

 

However many batteries, particularly those used as "leisure" or "domestic" are sealed, and shouldn't need topping up.

 

If you think about it, most car batteries now are sealed, whereas years back they were not, and required regular topping up.

 

You need to see what battery type you have, both for your "domestics" and "starter" (which will likely be a different type). It may be you need to do nothing, but it's equally likely they are not of a sealed type, and need this maintenance.

 

Alan

 

Beware: If you have never done this before, some "liquid" will inevitably be on each cap or plug you remove. This "liquid" is actually moderately concentrated Sulphuric acid, and will burn holes in things like clothing, if you are unfortunate enough to transfer it around. You should treat battery acid with great respect, and mop up any spills meticulously. It will not harm skin instantly, but should be washed off sharply. Get it in eyes, and it starts to get serious.

[Chris Pink]

Sorry to derail... I have an embarrassingly ignorant question...

 

I was wondering what people mean by filling up the batteries? What do you fill it up with? How do you know when it needs filling? I had a look but couldn't see where to pour anything in.

 

The action of charging a battery, over time, causes the loss of water through evaporation.

 

Your 12V battery will have 6 caps on the top in a line, if you take these off each cell should have water to cover the rows of lead plates you will be able to see, if the plates are visible or the levels are uneven you will have to fill up with de-ionised water (car parts supplier). Many batteries will have a level on the side, others have a retangular tab just inside the filler cap for level.

 

If your battery is 'low maintenance' then the caps will not be designed to come off but if charged heavily may still need topping up.

 

If yo ur battery is gel or agm or completely sealed then it won't need or be able to be topped up.

[mikevye]

Don't know about anyone else but I've still got the problem of when the engines running the webasto wont fire up, and the webasto when running shuts down if I start the engine whats that all about then? Batteries are charged and the feed to the webasto is direct from the leisure batteries via its own fuse.

[chris w]

Don't know about anyone else but I've still got the problem of when the engines running the webasto wont fire up, and the webasto when running shuts down if I start the engine whats that all about then? Batteries are charged and the feed to the webasto is direct from the leisure batteries via its own fuse.

It's not an inherent Webasto problem, because my Webasto is connected to my leisure batteries and starts up and runs perfectly whether the engine is running, stopped or being cranked.

 

If the Webasto is being affected by starting your engine, the implication is that actually it is connected to the start battery rather than the leisure batteries. OR, even worse, you have actually and unknowingly connected the starter motor to your leisure batteries. However, why it even then wouldn't run with the engine going is indeed baffling.

 

Chris

[mikevye]

It's not an inherent Webasto problem, because my Webasto is connected to my leisure batteries and starts up and runs perfectly whether the engine is running, stopped or being cranked.

 

If the Webasto is being affected by starting your engine, the implication is that actually it is connected to the start battery rather than the leisure batteries. OR, even worse, you have actually and unknowingly connected the starter motor to your leisure batteries. However, why it even then wouldn't run with the engine going is indeed baffling.

 

Chris

 

If you don't know chris I'm really in the doo dah!!!!!!!!!! maybe yer best mate the licenced heating engineer can solve the problem?

[chris w]

If you don't know chris I'm really in the doo dah!!!!!!!!!! maybe yer best mate the licenced heating engineer can solve the problem?

First things first. Are you absolutely sure the starting and leisure batteries are wired as you say and that the leisure batteries are not inadvertently being used to start the engine. (This could be the result of a faulty battery isolation relay for instance). An easy way to test this is to put a voltmeter on the leisure batteries, note their voltage and then crank the engine. It shouldn't change. If the reading drops by 2 or 3 volts, you have a wiring error.

 

Chris

Edited November 6, 2008 by chris w

[ditchcrawler]

First things first. Are you absolutely sure the starting and leisure batteries are wired as you say and that the leisure batteries are not inadvertently being used to start the engine. (This could be the result of a faulty battery isolation relay for instance). An easy way to test this is to put a voltmeter on the leisure batteries, note their voltage and then crank the engine. It shouldn't change. If the reading drops by 2 or 3 volts, you have a wiring error.

 

Chris

Maybe its a return cable problem that is rising above zero when the engine is running so he effectively has 2 positives to the heater.

[Guest TerryL]

If you don't know chris I'm really in the doo dah!!!!!!!!!! maybe yer best mate the licenced heating engineer can solve the problem?

Us heating engineers are licenced to kill time and what better way than to solve a problem that Chris has failed at. The burner as I understand will not run when the engine is running. There are a number of possibilities, the burner needs fuel, air and sufficient power to run properly and my first thought is that the fuel could be starved when the engine is running. How is the burner connected to the fuel system?