Report Unlicensed Boats!

[Bagpuss]

[*]Stand up and demand that they too obey the rules

 

 

I have no wish to strike up polite conversations with people not displaying licences

 

I can't believe these two statements come from the same person.

 

The crusader for law and order or the coward hiding in the shadows?

 

Which are you Mr Mayall?

[Nine of Hearts]

i afraid that sound a bit cowardly.You are not somebody i would ever like to associate with you will no doubt be relived to hear. Is that not displaying them, or not holding a valid license?

 

Are you seriously suggesting that if you saw an unlicensed boat you would approach the owner (or the person you assumed to be the owner) and say,

"Excuse me, old chap, but you don't appear to be displaying a licence, would you mind telling me why?". ???

 

Would you also throw in, "Oh, and your wife's a bit on the ugly side, too", for good measure?

[mayalld]

How about 'Demand that they too obey the rules'* then ?

 

 

I mean, as opposed to grassing them up behind their backs, that is.....

 

 

*I think these were your words weren't they ?

 

 

 

And anyway, why not ? At least that way you might ascertain whether they are 'can't payers' or 'won't payers' before grassing them up - but then I suppose that distinction isn't important to you.....

 

No, the distinction isn't important to me.

 

It isn't important, for two distinct reasons.

1. British Waterways is not a social provider, and isn't funded to make social provision. The question as to whether a lifestyle choice (having/living on a boat) ought to be funded by government in the same way as a home ashore is an interesting, but different question. If it is to be funded, it must be properly funded by an appropriate agency, not by people who claim (truly or not) that they can't afford a licence opting not to pay.
   
2. I leave it to BW to decide who is a can't pay and who is a won't pay. I simply tell them that they are using a boat but haven't paid.
   

[grahoom]

]I leave it to BW to decide who is a can't pay and who is a won't pay. I simply tell them that they are using a boat but haven't paid.

 

Surely you simple tell them that you assume that they have not paid as you can't see a licence?

[mayalld]

i afraid that sound a bit cowardly.You are not somebody i would ever like to associate with you will no doubt be relived to hear. Is that not displaying them, or not holding a valid license?

 

Your opinion and you are entitled to it.

 

Non-display is also an offence BTW.

[sueb]

Are you seriously suggesting that if you saw an unlicensed boat you would approach the owner (or the person you assumed to be the owner) and say,

"Excuse me, old chap, but you don't appear to be displaying a licence, would you mind telling me why?". ???

 

Would you also throw in, "Oh, and your wife's a bit on the ugly side, too", for good measure?

He may agree on both counts

Sue

[mayalld]

I can't believe these two statements come from the same person.

 

The crusader for law and order or the coward hiding in the shadows?

 

Which are you Mr Mayall?

 

Neither.

 

I'm hardly hiding in the shadows.

 

You all know the name of my boat and where it is moored.

 

Several people here have met me in person.

[homer2911]

i afraid that sound a bit cowardly.You are not somebody i would ever like to associate with you will no doubt be relived to hear. Is that not displaying them, or not holding a valid license?

 

 

Are you nuts? Have you seen some of the crusties with no licences?

[tidal]

Have you seen some of the crusties with no licences?

 

Judging by this thread it's some of the "crusties" WITH licences that are far more worrying

[gaggle]

I have no wish to strike up polite conversations with people not displaying licences

 

 

if i meet you on your boat i will take down my displayed licence and insist on talking to you , why , because you have to be worth a guffaw or two.

i thought people with your outlook only existed in monty python type sketches.

[US Marines]

Are you seriously suggesting that if you saw an unlicensed boat you would approach the owner (or the person you assumed to be the owner) and say,

"Excuse me, old chap, but you don't appear to be displaying a licence, would you mind telling me why?". ???

 

Would you also throw in, "Oh, and your wife's a bit on the ugly side, too", for good measure?

I am - that is, I am saying that, if I were minded to report them, I would. This seems to me to be far more honourable and would be far less harmful to the waterways community than grassing them up behind their backs.

 

And no, I wouldn't say that about their wives, because I'm not that rude.

[mayalld]

if i meet you on your boat i will take down my displayed licence and insist on talking to you , why , because you have to be worth a guffaw or two.

i thought people with your outlook only existed in monty python type sketches.

 

You must feel free to do so.

 

I will not initiate a conversation if you aren't displaying a licence.

[RLWP]

You must feel free to do so.

 

I will not initiate a conversation if you aren't displaying a licence.

 

Cast: two boaters

 

Scene: a canal bank with a boat moored:

 

Boater one: "Good Morning"

 

Boater two then examines the boat carefully as if looking for a license....

 

Richard

 

Admittedly this isn't the scenario that Mayalld proposed as in this one it isn't him who initiates the conversation. I thought the scenario where someone examines your boat before deciding to talk to you to be too rude for real life.

Edited October 27, 2008 by RLWP

[Bagpuss]

Neither.

 

I'm hardly hiding in the shadows.

 

You all know the name of my boat and where it is moored.

 

Several people here have met me in person.

 

I was not trying to suggest that you are hiding from the forum, just from the people you are grassing up reporting.

 

Are you nuts? Have you seen some of the crusties with no licences?

 

Most of the crusties I've met on the cut are pacifist hippy types.. more likely to offer you a beer than violence.

[Nine of Hearts]

I am - that is, I am saying that, if I were minded to report them, I would. This seems to me to be far more honourable and would be far less harmful to the waterways community than grassing them up behind their backs.

 

And no, I wouldn't say that about their wives, because I'm not that rude.

 

And what would that achieve?

 

case i) Owner has a licence, but it is in post or behind curtains etc.

Are they likely to think "What a public spirited person, I'm so glad they checked", or something less flattering. Are they going to be made happy by such an enquiry?

 

case ii) They don't have a licence.

Are they going to answer, "You got me bang to rights, Guv, I don't have a licence" or will they, perhaps, dissemble?

 

I really can't think of a situation in the real world where there would be any point to such discourse. If you're dealing with a reasonable person, then I would say that it's probably 99% certain they're licenced. If they're not reasonable, and remember people with licences fall into this category too, the best you could hope for would be abuse. If you want to dob somebody in, just dob them in. Don't go asking for a black-eye to justify your actions first.

[mayalld]

I was not trying to suggest that you are hiding from the forum, just from the people you are grassing up reporting.

 

Not at all.

 

It is interesting that those who just don't like the idea of this reporting system try to throw every possible obstacle in the path.

 

Do you seriously suggest that it is only morally acceptable to report a licence evader if you give them a sporting chance to punch you for your troubles?

[US Marines]

And what would that achieve?

 

case i) Owner has a licence, but it is in post or behind curtains etc.

Are they likely to think "What a public spirited person, I'm so glad they checked", or something less flattering. Are they going to be made happy by such an enquiry?

 

case ii) They don't have a licence.

Are they going to answer, "You got me bang to rights, Guv, I don't have a licence" or will they, perhaps, dissemble?

 

I really can't think of a situation in the real world where there would be any point to such discourse. If you're dealing with a reasonable person, then I would say that it's probably 99% certain they're licenced. If they're not reasonable, and remember people with licences fall into this category too, the best you could hope for would be abuse. If you want to dob somebody in, just dob them in. Don't go asking for a black-eye to justify your actions first.

Personally, I take the view that I shouldn't say things behind someone's back that I'm not prepared to say to their face.

 

But then, that's the way I try to live my life....how you live yours is up to you....

 

What I don't like is that BW are encouraging you to act in such a fashion.

 

 

It is interesting that those who just don't like the idea of this reporting system try to throw every possible obstacle in the path.

 

Name an obstacle that I've thrown in your path....

 

Other than your own words, that is.

Edited October 27, 2008 by US Marines

[Nine of Hearts]

Personally, I take the view that I shouldn't say things behind someone's back that I'm not prepared to say to their face.

 

But then, that's the way I try to live my life....how you live yours is up to you....

 

If you should ever come across me being beaten to a pulp by a gang of thugs, please could you desist on that one occasion from your lofty morals and go and get help. Don't give them advance warning of your intentions first.

 

xxx

[Bagpuss]

Not at all.

 

It is interesting that those who just don't like the idea of this reporting system try to throw every possible obstacle in the path.

 

Do you seriously suggest that it is only morally acceptable to report a licence evader if you give them a sporting chance to punch you for your troubles?

 

No, I don't believe it's morally acceptable to report a licence evader at all, but in agreement with US Marines, I would have more respect for a person who resolves issues with others face-to-face rather than in such a sneaky underhand manner.

 

Not that I think my respect or lack thereof would make any difference to you.

[mayalld]

No, I don't believe it's morally acceptable to report a licence evader at all, but in agreement with US Marines, I would have more respect for a person who resolves issues with others face-to-face rather than in such a sneaky underhand manner.

 

Not that I think my respect or lack thereof would make any difference to you.

 

I am not being sneaky or underhand.

 

In have declared in a very public fashion that I intend to report unlicenced boats.

[US Marines]

If you should ever come across me being beaten to a pulp by a gang of thugs, please could you desist on that one occasion from your lofty morals and go and get help. Don't give them advance warning of your intentions first.

 

xxx

 

The thing about morals is, well, some people have them.....

 

And anyway, what makes you think that I wouldn't go and get help and/or dive in and help you out ? You see, that's how morals work....

[homer2911]

Personally, I take the view that I shouldn't say things behind someone's back that I'm not prepared to say to their face.

 

 

Scenario: You witness a brick being thrown through a elderly neighbour's window by some yobs (sorry to be judgmental there - I suppose they could have a perfectly legitimate reason for their action - maybe they're poor or something)

 

Option 1: You report the matter to the Police without talking to them

 

Option 2: Given your view that 'I shouldn't say things behind someone's back that I'm not prepared to say to their face', you confront them, in order to tell them to their face that you intend to report them

 

Option 3: You do not report the matter at all, leaving open the probability that some other neighbour's window will get smashed in.

 

It's foolhardy enough to confront a law-breaker in broad daylight and in a town centre these days - to do so on a secluded towpath is just plain madness.

 

In any case, in a typical cruise of two or three hours, you might have to stop twenty or thirty times to have an amiable chat about a missing licence.

 

Nah - just jot down the numbers and report them - no licence? Get reported - got one but haven't displayed it? Tough.

Edited October 27, 2008 by homer2911

[US Marines]

Scenario: You witness a brick being thrown through a elderly neighbour's window by some yobs (sorry to be judgmental there - I suppose they could have a perfectly legitimate reason for their action - maybe they're poor or something)

 

Option 1: You report the matter to the Police without talking to them

 

Option 2: Given your view that 'I shouldn't say things behind someone's back that I'm not prepared to say to their face', you confront them, in order to tell them to their face that you intend to report them

 

Option 3: You do not report the matter at all, leaving open the probability that some other neighbour's window will get smashed in.

I said "shouldn't" not that I "wouldn't in all circumstances". Non payment of boat licences is something that isn't important enough for me to break my own 'moral code' in that respect. In the sort of scenario you have painted here, my 'moral code' would cause me to do everything reasonable in my power to cause the action to stop as soon as possible and the yobs to be brought to justice.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Not that it will get us anywhere but I feel I need to point something out.

 

BW and some posters here claim that unlicensed boats cause your license fee to be higher and less work to get done.

BW posted £36 million profit last year (BW is a government agency and should not be for-profit) despite a number of unlicensed boats.

BW's Jane Thomson says that license fees only amount to £13.4 million of BW's operating budget. So the £36 million profit would have more than made up for any 'loss'.

BW says they're are about 30,000 of you. That means last year they could have given each and every one of you a £1200 rebate.

 

Your license fee continues to increase.

 

This leaves the question, who is stealing more, unlicensed boaters or BW?

 

 

If you should ever come across me being beaten to a pulp by a gang of thugs, please could you desist on that one occasion from your lofty morals and go and get help. Don't give them advance warning of your intentions first.

Scenario: You witness a brick being thrown through a elderly neighbour's window by some yobs (sorry to be judgmental there - I suppose they could have a perfectly legitimate reason for their action - maybe they're poor or something)

You do both understand the difference between causing damage or physical harm and not paying a license fee don't you?

Edited October 27, 2008 by Jason Wilson and Family

[US Marines]

BW's Jane Thomson says: "We are acting in the interests of our canals and customers by reducing the number of unlicensed and derelict craft blighting our waterways. Every penny is being ploughed back into maintaining and improving the network for everyone."

 

Following on from Martin's OP and my earlier posts on this thread - I have now heard back a 2nd time from BW concerning the quote above.

 

The full reply etc is given in the thread here Clicky! (see the OP and Post#9 on that thread)

 

However and as I suspected, when Ms Thomson stated what she did in the newsletter, her definition of 'maintenance' and 'improvement' included such things as Director Bonuses.......

 

 

..............Sttttttrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeetttttcccchhhhiiiiinnnnnnngggggg things a little far perhaps ?

Edited October 27, 2008 by US Marines